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4/25/2014 1:25:15   
Matt 1000
Member

Over the past few days as i was on twitter i saw that AQW is beginning to hire new moderators and artists, don't you guys think Epic duel should do the same? I have not really seen many staff in any leader boards since the end of delta / start of early omega (clutch). I think in order to improve epic duel we need staff members who actually take an interest in the game and want to play it and battle to help improve the game and bring back players to Epic duel. I would like to see alot more new staff members who have experience and knowledge of epic duel + are actually playing and testing the game e.g. on leader boards or hanging around with players at naomi 0 everyday asking questions to see how they can better improve the game.
AQW Epic  Post #: 1
4/27/2014 23:41:22   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Yes, and this is not meant to attack the staff but all I am saying is that you should get rid of your rules such as "Staff can't be on Leaderboards" and actually play the game. You know how much of a thrill someone would get just from racing against one of you in the Leaderboards? Or fighting you in game MULTIPLE time instead of once every couple months?

I support this, get some more staff members who will actually play!
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 2
4/28/2014 8:46:41   
AssassinOrd3r
Member


 they hired new artists but the new mod/tester is good idea
Epic  Post #: 3
4/28/2014 12:06:42   
Irregation
Member

I like the idea of new Moderators/Testers, it might be a good idea for Artix to post Mod/Test applications in the ED section. With strict requirements/procedures to weed out the ill-goaled applicants.
Epic  Post #: 4
4/28/2014 12:50:18   
DeathGuard
Member

First, AQW isn't "hiring" new moderators or artists.
quote:

With school and work having stolen much of our artists' time, we are looking for a few great AQW fans to become volunteer assistant developers

Hiring means paying them for a job which they are perfoming, which isn't the case here, since volunteer artists don't get payed. How do I know this? I'm a guest artist for ED.

quote:

and hopefully, if things work out in the future, full time staff members of AE.
The volunteers may become or not staff members.

About moderators, they must run a check on their accounts, payments records, etc. and be sure they haven't got in trouble because of cheating/hacking/etc. (Forum warnings don't affect this type of applications).

Also, finding people who will agree and follow the NDA(Non-Disclosure Agreement) of AE is hard since the leak of information would meant a big cost to AE and to its competitiveness in the market of game industry.

Hiring new staff members/apprentinces or training volunteers isn't an easy job, since not only Devs must use time for the releases but must teach the other new recruits the standards and other type of rules/guides they must follow depending on the area they are working, e.g. coding for ED won't be the same for other type of game, so just like Titan teached Rabblefroth the way of code monkeys, they would have to use time and train other coder if it was the case.

Something I must tell you too, not every idea given to improve the game will work out, the idea doesn't simply gets to be agree on, if the idea is good at first, but after discussion the cons are more than the pros, it wouldn't be suitable to implement. The quality of ideas given would measure if they are suitable to become staff members or not.

Some last thing, behavior in-game will have a great impact if you ever apply to be a volunteer or staff member, don't forget that and when giving suggestions, try to be constructive.

Conclusion: The hiring of staff members ain't easy as you're implying so I had recommend to read over my whole post and try to analyze how hard is for AE to share its game info and hire new members.

< Message edited by DeathGuard -- 4/28/2014 12:52:15 >
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 5
5/8/2014 17:54:39   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 I say they just hire a specific team who can go through our tons of suggestions and implement four or five of them into the game every week because this monthly update thing is not good.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 6
5/8/2014 18:36:55   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator
quote:

this monthly update thing is not good.


Much agreed.

If anything, they need a better place for even reading player suggestions and ideas. The addition of those class-specific balance threads really limit individualized suggestions that are more noticeable and identifiable since you're forced to post anything about a class in those threads and can't make your own individual ones now. I actually don't see many moderators on, but I've never seen many in my entire time playing ED so I think it's fine. Concerning getting more staff members, if they needed any at all, it would just be a couple to sift through player ideas on the forums, because I'm not even sure the developers do that frequently given the extremely scarce number of posts they've made.
Epic  Post #: 7
5/8/2014 23:52:42   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Exactly. What I hate the most is that people are posting their suggestions on Twitter now because of the fact that they believe that Mods look at twitter more....im starting to think that its true.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 8
5/9/2014 0:01:03   
Mother1
Member

@ the berserker killer

The staff themselves said they use their twitter accounts more than the forums, and they even said to post their idea on twitter since they can see them there better. It was also said in the design notes sometime ago to do this so it isn't the staff's fault that the players don't follow this.

Epic  Post #: 9
5/9/2014 0:13:00   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Yeah mother I'm not blaming the staff. All I am saying is that some people are posting genuine ideas here, on the forums where our ideas are initially supposed to go, and these very same people are not being heard. The only Mod I see in game who works on forums is MechaMario. Just once would I like to see charfade, nw, titan, or Rabble comment on forums. Just once would I like to see Titan himself engage in a general discussion, just once would I like to see Rabble comment on a balance thread and express himself just once would I like to see a single "Supported" from charfade in the suggestions forums. With all due respect this is EpicDuel Forums, where we are supposed to discuss the game freely and offer ideas. Not twitter. It's sad that we even have to go to twitter. Just saying.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 10
5/9/2014 0:16:48   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 You weren't there but a while ago in early omega I think it was, I made a pretty expansive post ranking the classes in 1v1 (it's outdated as of now, and I think it even isn't on the forums anymore due to getting removed through inactivity). Anyways, rabble commented on that before with some compliments. Charfade has also posted, but very, very infrequently. You could actually go look at their profiles and find their post history to see where they've commented on the forums.

But yeah, I don't really see why they prefer twitter over the forums when the forums are just the better place to go in terms of game development. Probably something on the forums that's hindering their ability to utilize it well.
Epic  Post #: 11
5/9/2014 0:19:57   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Well I sure would feel more comfortable if they used forums more than twitter. Too many ideas and suggestions for us to only get an update every month.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 12
5/9/2014 0:22:09   
Mother1
Member

Personally if that doesn't work I would just post my ideas, then used my twitter account with a link of said idea. I seen some players do this and the staff did respond to thoses as well.
Epic  Post #: 13
5/9/2014 17:00:09   
  WhiteTiger

Majestic Feline of AQ3D & ED


 Charfade has confirmed that they are always on the look out for new moderators and testers, there is just no application process now.

quote:

Charfade @Charfade

We are always on the look out for new mods/testers. We would rather hand pick now then send out official applicants.

https://twitter.com/Charfade/status/464729451977121793
AQW Epic  Post #: 14
5/10/2014 1:51:33   
Thylek Shran
Member

Moderators experience the problem that they get spammed with questions when they have a green name.
Also if you have Rabblefroth´s Tome or other Ultra-Rare items. This is the main reason why I personally
declined to be a moderator. I prefer to play and have freedom instead of haggling around with players
that make problems while getting no benefits.. or money. To be a mod is alot work so it should get
rewarded in some way to make it worth to be one. Honor and famousness just istn enough imo.
DF Epic  Post #: 15
5/10/2014 18:48:53   
DeathGuard
Member

quote:

I say they just hire a specific team who can go through our tons of suggestions and implement four or five of them into the game every week because this monthly update thing is not good.
Since it is so easy to get an idea in-game and make items like if they were stick figures, plus not counting the animation that needs to be done for each item or the testing to be done after all that type of work. :C

quote:

Yeah mother I'm not blaming the staff. All I am saying is that some people are posting genuine ideas here, on the forums where our ideas are initially supposed to go, and these very same people are not being heard. The only Mod I see in game who works on forums is MechaMario. Just once would I like to see charfade, nw, titan, or Rabble comment on forums. Just once would I like to see Titan himself engage in a general discussion, just once would I like to see Rabble comment on a balance thread and express himself just once would I like to see a single "Supported" from charfade in the suggestions forums. With all due respect this is EpicDuel Forums, where we are supposed to discuss the game freely and offer ideas. Not twitter. It's sad that we even have to go to twitter. Just saying.

You know this is so funny since you are missing out important info. I'm sure you have heard some of the AE Devs couldn't post in forums due to some IP problem. Same is happening to ED Devs and the ones in charge haven't fixed them, plus Devs can't comment in certain issues to their NDAs. It isn't they don't want to post, it is that THEY CAN'T POST :C

Twitter has been progressing and getting more attention since there are no much trashtalkers, mouth dirty people, aggressive and non-constructive people. If you actually tweet nicely to the devs about an idea, they will read it. If you spam them with it, they will feel annoyed, they are human beings y'know? What if a person insisted on something and he/she didn't stopped? Every human has a limit and they are able to stop themselves from replying to many useless tweets and ideas given which won't help the game improve. All of this is my personal opinion and perspective, not the Devs.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 16
5/10/2014 23:28:46   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 There are multiple AE games that manage to do updates and implement suggestions once every week so yeah it is that easy.

And I'm sorry but I'm pretty sure that Forums were the original place to post. I have no problem with you just simple saying "Devs said it's okay to tweet them" but there's no reason to use that sort of aggressive tone...I am a human being y'know? Thanks
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 17
5/11/2014 0:24:54   
Mother1
Member

@ the berserker killer

Many AE games =/= ED

You also have to remember ED out of all the games has the smallest amount of staff members they only have 2 programmers, 3 staff artist and 1 story writer.
Epic  Post #: 18
5/11/2014 0:32:50   
DeathGuard
Member

As Mother1 said, ED has one of the smallest staff groups, plus you can't compare other AE games to ED because the base codes for the game, features, and the limitations each games are too different. Taking this into consideration, the amount of features and art that can be produced by week varies depending on the complexity of the game's genre e.g. PvP.

Yes, forums were the original where you could post but who do you think brought the forums to ruins? Devs barely posted, it was the players with their constant flaming wars, unconstructive posts and dumb/foolish suggestions that benefit their ownselves which brought such. Now with the IP problem which isn't because Devs wanted that way, they are getting more rants :c

Me being aggresive? lol Give me a break and stop posting things you don't know about, because you're just digging deeper what's left of this forum.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 19
5/11/2014 0:50:46   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Thanks for being respectful. ^
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 20
5/11/2014 8:11:42   
SMGS
Member

@the berserker killer - Someone please correct me if I'm wrong here, but the only leaderboards that staff are exempt from are the Fame and Rarity leaderboards, for reasons obvious to everyone here, I assume. I'm fairly sure staff can still be on Dailies and All-Times due to the fact that time is still invested into doing this (and the fact that staff use equipment obtainable by anyone else in the game). I agree with the motivation to beat one on a leaderboard, though.

I think the developers have not shied away in saying they use Twitter more. They've said it multiple times on streams, even taking subtle jabs at the forums during these live streams. It's really more of a fact than a theory at this point. Twitter was a perfect mix of quality and quantity for developers, I think. The limited time they spend reading brief, straight to the point and tl;drs is probably a better use of their time than reading several paragraphs. And if they are interested in the suggestion, they are probably linked with the corresponding thread, which is easier on their part. Twitter was the perfect storm that happened to AE and has left them with what I find is a bizarre situation where the developers use Twitter more than their forums. The reverse is true for most gaming companies.

I'm in full agreement that there are issues in the perception the developers are giving to players. Whether or not they read the forums is their decision. They say they do, but we do not know whether or not that is fact because we have no assurance that they have done what they have said. That's definitely an issue that they need to solve moving forward.

Is your time posting idea here worthwhile? That's up to you and how you personally trust the developers when they say they read the stuff posted here.


@DeathGuard - Hiring is probably just poor wording on his part, although we basically got the idea of what he meant. Anyhow, AQW is looking for moderators (as well as artists) - as mentioned in this tweet.

In terms of training, the way I understand it is that staff should be trained by their respective heads (Alley Cat for moderators and Mecha Mario for testers). The developers aren't actually training you directly, since they are focused on their own tasks, which is to develop the game. As far as I know, Charfade is training the artists, and we've seen some results out of that by now, so that's a positive on her and her team.


@Thylek Shran - Full agreement with what you've said (one of the reasons I personally don't use the Tome). I will say that I don't think many of my former colleagues know why I resigned, but I think you've hit on most of the points. I came home from a long day, using the time after to do more work instead of relaxing. This is not to discourage anyone from considering these positions (and I doubt I've done so anyway), but I've learned countless things from my experience and would not trade that for anything. Moderating and testing are tough jobs, and I certainly respect the choice to reject a request to be one.
Post #: 21
5/11/2014 11:32:45   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Thank you, in fact some of them are even on All-Time lbs such as Inventory Rarity (e.g Alley Cat). I feel like theyre not paying enough attention to their game, especially since the "use twitter" announcement. That is why I support this thread because if they were to have at least 4 or 5 people looking at suggestions, picking out some of the minor and good ones, and implementing them every week then the player base would be much larger than it is now.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 22
5/11/2014 12:44:12   
DeathGuard
Member

@SMGS: Not only Charfade has taken part on the training, NW if we asked him for help, he actually has gave us a full outline of the ED Art standards and tips to make the items fit ED's style and the limit of their size and memory. Personal livestreams and continuous screensharing has been used currently plus the sharing of already in-game files, to use as references for certain features e.g. color customization in armors, the variations of animations in auxes and guns, etc.

Also, I can assure Devs do read the forums, but as said before, not all ideas given are meant to favor the whole community, and what as a Dev would you do? Keep looking for better ideas, if not found, develop their own ideas and features. It is really hard when balance changes favor one of the classes, or it will cause some sort of unbalance in the class' skills.
If people actually really wanted to help the game, they would suggest ideas that will favor none of the classes, and will bring the so-called build restriction to be eliminated and balance could slowly progress.


@The berserker killer: Sadly, Devs do read forums, but not all of the ideas given or post are worth a read imo, if people actually dedicated themselves to suggest good ideas, the time invested in reading would be proportional to the amount of good ideas being implemented in-game, not within 1 week, but the necessary time to develop them.
I'm still surprised you're mentioning that such ideas should be implemented within 1 week, but do you know how small the staff group and how much some balance change and feature takes time to implement? I'm sure you don't. You can't rush the development of an idea and risk thousand of code lines just to have it one week. That'd be foolish.

< Message edited by DeathGuard -- 5/11/2014 20:31:15 >
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 23
5/11/2014 14:15:04   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 I support this thread
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 24
5/11/2014 19:55:19   
SMGS
Member

@the berserker killer - I doubt staff members would be allowed on the inventory rarity leaderboard. Double checked and Alley is on the 1v1 All Time. It's definitely an odd scenario where the game developers respond on Twitter more than respond here on the forums. It was probably the perfect service for the developers to get into. They don't necessarily feel obligated to respond in an elaborate fashion on Twitter and they are able to view more suggestions in a brief amount of time because of the 140 character limit. All that said, the forums should probably be utilized more on the suggestion front.

@DeathGuard - Thanks for the insight into what a Guest Artist is experiencing. This is something fairly new and one of the aspects I'm still not quite familiar with. Awesome to hear about that very strong collaborative atmosphere that's present there. Whether you're an artist, a tester, a moderator or an ArchKnight, one of the reasons to take on a volunteer opportunity is to gain experience and learn something. Sounds like it's sufficiently achieved.

I think the assurance that the devs is wonderful, but it's all about perception for old players and first impressions for new players. When we do not see developers replying, we perceive they do not read the thread at all. The notion that people feel threads are not being read is perfectly acceptable in my mind and I think this is an area wherein improvement is needed. I don't want to be putting words in your mouth here, but it shouldn't really be something that is buried in the same statement that we should be 'assured the developers are reading.' We should have evidence that they do so.

quote:

What as a Dev would you do?


I have no doubt in my mind at all that the developers have sacrificed so much in their lives in order to do their life's passion. It's much more difficult than a 9-5 job, but I will say that the community aspect is crucial for any gaming company, more so an indie studio. I find that one of the reasons some people choose not to play games made by big name companies is because of the more intimate interaction between the developers and the community. This is definitely one of the aspects that AE markets heavily and while they've certainly done more than many studios out there on Twitter interaction, the forums should not be abandoned.

Casual discussions with players once the release is live would be a start. Not all threads are suggestion and balance threads and it does not go without appreciation if they give their take on the release, possibly insight into how long it took to develop x, inspiration to create weapon y, annoying broken bug z, silly testing stories, etc. They are developers but nothing stops them from discussing as if they were a player as well, and I think we've seen a bit of that on Twitter.

@Matt - In-game interaction is definitely just as important as forum interaction. I think we've seen Charfade solve a bit of this problem with livestreams. While not necessarily in-game, it allows multiple developers to give their take on the question without lagging the heck out of their computer or dealing with the insane chat limit. I think they've made massive strides with interacting with people in-game in that manner, but holding it more regularly is certainly something that needs looking into. In a perfect world, a staff member would be regularly able to go to Naomi 0, but there are limitations in place that make that impractical - chat limit, lack of time, lag, etc. Do you personally feel that livestreams are sufficient and a good compromise for in-game interaction? Or, without being unreasonable and being realistic, what amount of developer interaction would satisfy you?

In terms of hunting for new staff members, I think the process of having the developers/staff contact you personally rather than the other way around is best moving forward, in my opinion. I don't necessarily think the team had the best results when they put out applications for staff members, and I like how they've changed that. Hopefully they find the right amount of people to staff the game, but the fact that they contact quality members and the fact that many staff members today no longer have multiple responsibilities is beneficial to the game moving forward.
Post #: 25
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