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Next update (class balance change?)

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12/9/2013 3:45:23   
santonik
Member

Hopefully the next update should be bigger. In this update did not change in any way the categories of power politics. Only cosmetic changes were made. Let's hope the best for the next update would bring bigger changes. Although for boyntyhunter and techmage domination. Players waiting for just this. I believe that the 4 other character classes would thank for this. I understand that some changes need more time than others to changes. It would be good if the game keepers maintain focus even for a week purely a game of balance. And I would hope that they have the courage to make changes to the game. As these sorts of issues. If a skill is too strong, so this could weaken. If a skill is really too strong then it can take the skills briskly away. The second hand can always edit again. Way or the other. This requires work and time.


The purpose is not to offend anyone.^^
(Have the courage.)
Epic  Post #: 1
12/9/2013 7:10:54   
Ranloth
Banned


 Changing the way in which EP draining works as a whole wasn't really cosmetic, or Botanical Hazard nerf which was requested for a while...

It's December. They wanted to bring rares back + introduce new Achievement System. Next week, we will get Winter Event release - since last week's DNs mentioned needing 2 weeks to complete the release, so some balance changes may come with that, or the week after.
AQ Epic  Post #: 2
12/9/2013 10:56:41   
  RabbleFroth
Member

Most of our focus this week was on Achievements, and didn't leave us with too much time for balance changes. The changes we did make were low-cost and pretty straightforward number changes so we wanted to get them in.
Post #: 3
12/9/2013 11:06:09   
Remorse
Member

^ good to know,

I know some of us are hanging out for some decent balance changes to actually play the game since it is essentially pvping.

Unfortunately when I play the game now, the huge amount of incredibly hard to counter BH's empowered with static makes it to frustrating to last more then 10 mins of gameplay.

Plus the hatch-ling rush core has greatly impacted 2v2 so much so that it is almost a free win to the side that has it, especially if they start.
Since if you don't start in 2v2 you usually need to play semi defensive and ensuring the focused partner lives to get off some attacks however how can they live when all healing sources are DRAMATICALLY reduced.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 12/9/2013 11:14:58 >
Epic  Post #: 4
12/10/2013 11:19:06   
comicalbike
Member

well in 2/2 if you are a legion player you have more chance to lose as per usual game you get 36 36 exile
and 36 30 as there are not many legion players so 75% of the draws are very bad as we cant fix this ,can we have in 2/2 a robot and a player each side that would be more fun
Epic  Post #: 5
12/10/2013 12:51:31   
ValkyrieKnight
Member

Highly looking forward to the next balance change, it seems everyone that is not bounty hunter has fled 1v1, I keep going days where I find 8 Bhs for every 10 fights, this is getting dumb. Bh is OP and the lack of every class that isn't Bh in 1v1 proves it.
AQW Epic  Post #: 6
12/10/2013 13:47:06   
Altador987
Member

^ question, so if they nerf bh will you really be satisfied with whatever shape your class is left in
AQW Epic  Post #: 7
12/10/2013 14:26:46   
Calogero
Member

Like I said before, it shouldn't be needed but the way balance shifts from 1 class to another, we need to get a Class change limit.

A change every 2/3 months for example, which will increase the value of changing and prevents people to horde over to 1 class
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 8
12/10/2013 14:36:18   
killerman164
Member
 

 It'd be better if all the underpowered classes were buffed, everything can be op, but the op class will at least have a counter by another op build.
Post #: 9
12/10/2013 14:41:34   
Ranloth
Banned


 Nerfing is easier, because battles get longer, and luck's impact averages out. Less work involved in nerfing. Define underpowered - everyone but BHs, right? Buff 5 classes, cause more imbalance and have to nerf - is that your solution, which is "better"? Everything can be OP? That's not balance.
AQ Epic  Post #: 10
12/10/2013 15:26:19   
killerman164
Member
 

 BH and Mages are actually decent, I mean, they may have a counter, but if you think about it. At least it'd give everyone a chance to try a new class instead of just being plain old Bounty Hunter, just me, but I think people just want a ratio over 80%
Post #: 11
12/10/2013 15:44:25   
Ranloth
Banned
quote:

I think people just want a ratio over 80%

This is exactly why people go to BH class and abuse, and then people complain about it and blame the Devs for players not being creative - because players want wins...

You're still making little sense. Essentially, you're asking them to buff 5 classes instead of nerfing one, and dealing with the aftermath of massive balance change - such as defense being useless, HP being too low with buffed offense, etc. Yeah, why not just nerf one? >.> It's easier to say "do this, do that" but, in reality, doing it isn't that simple...
AQ Epic  Post #: 12
12/10/2013 15:58:15   
martinsen5
Member

I'm always surprised when people say it's better to buff skills, rather than nerfing them. There's literally no difference, just more work depending on how many skills are OP/UP. Say Static Grenade is the only skill that needs tweaking (just an example), why not nerf the skill and save yourself the hassle of buffing everything else?

Edit: Essentially the exact same thing Trans just said lol sorry didn't see.

< Message edited by martinsen5 -- 12/10/2013 15:59:04 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 13
12/10/2013 16:25:07   
Drianx
Member

quote:

This is exactly why people go to BH class and abuse, and then people complain about it and blame the Devs for players not being creative - because players want wins...

Of course they do, because it (wins) has always been the only real incentive to play this game. Give us more and variety might eventually come along.
AQW Epic  Post #: 14
12/10/2013 17:01:38   
Shajun Ki
Member

^Exactly.
Post #: 15
12/10/2013 17:13:50   
ValkyrieKnight
Member

I'm not asking the Devs to weaken BH to the point where I beat them easy as my win rate against them is 50/50. My build is specifically to counter BH and I should not have to do that. I like my old tank build but because of that garbage static grenade its impossible to tank against a BH and they'll continue to tech abuse and robot you down if you last too long. BH and BM were fine from the beginning with BM just needing the Deadly aim removed, they messed with a class that had nothing wrong with it except Deadly aim. They messed with BH when they had nothing wrong with it now BM is Underpowered and BH overpowered. I would just like to fight all the classes to change up the experience and keep the game engaging. At late, all I've been doing was swaping my build to fit which BH I encounter most during the day. Its not fun when I have to make my build to counter a specific class because 8/10 fights are against BHs.
AQW Epic  Post #: 16
12/11/2013 1:17:57   
Altador987
Member

so why not try to promote balance for whatever class it is that you're using to allow said tank build
AQW Epic  Post #: 17
12/11/2013 1:34:21   
Remorse
Member

I think the problem is here that out of the blue the devs decide that all classes should be equal in terms of energy drains and regains.


Without considering the fact that BHs before they were given static were FINE.
The weren't UNDERPOWERED because they didn't have a regain they were FINE.

But suddenly they assumed that we need to ruin variety and give classes the same skill set of everything...
With skill cores and robots classes will be able to compensate for their weaknesses rather then giving classes the same skill set and ruining variety.
(Providing they don't make the cores and robots ridiculously overpowered all the time.... they should be useful for certain classes and builds and less for some rather then so strong every class needs it to compete at a fair scale...)


That is the problem and it needs to be reversed, if battles are energy constricted because of passive removal etc. THEN SIMPLY INCREASE THE ENERGY SCALE to 2 per stat point or/and increase the base energy for classes.


Please.


I don't want to see the game constantly wreck itself.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 12/11/2013 3:13:51 >
Epic  Post #: 18
12/11/2013 2:18:11   
ValkyrieKnight
Member

@ Above

I could kiss Remorse for that post, that's what I've been trying to say, but I butcher my post :X
AQW Epic  Post #: 19
12/11/2013 3:18:32   
Remorse
Member

^
Haha I'll save that kiss for later ;)

You actually inspired to me to write that from your post valkyrie, I'm glad I could say the same thing in another perspective.
Epic  Post #: 20
12/11/2013 4:19:27   
kosmo
Member
 

 buff is better than nerf, why? belive it or not buffs dont make ppl QUIT THE GAME like nerf does, if a buff politic was done since the begain, probably now we wouldnt have the class jumpers and the quitters, we would not need to change the underpowered class since we trust that the staff will buff it; the only thing that nerfs bring more than buffs is money.
nerfing 2 classes is easier of buffing 4 but it brings nowhere, all the problems of the other classes are still there;
u can nerf battery, nerf granade, nerf assimilation, nerf evrything and that will not stop ch from being a crap.

also for all classes needing an equal drain/regain (and skills); this is true for a simple reason: PASSIVES ARE GONE.
what i mean is that if before i could compensate my lack of skills whit passives, now i cant do absolutly nothing for it, a good example was the bm that due to his passives couldnt have a strong debuff or drain, but now that energy parassite is the weakest drain ever, he just cant compensate for it, even if new skills gets added to his three; this is the reason y the only solution is to make his drain/regain equal to other classes.


< Message edited by kosmo -- 12/11/2013 4:20:54 >
Epic  Post #: 21
12/11/2013 4:30:17   
Remorse
Member

^ Buffing or nerfing is irrelevant.

What needs to be done, is what needs to be done.


If battles are broken because classes are to overpowered and it makes battles too luck based then perhaps nerfing is the answer.

If classes can't compete because of their lack on synergy and build possibilities then perhaps buffing is the answer.


Just because players don't like a particular method does not mean it is the right thing to do.

People always like being overpowered, at least people that have little interest for the games future do and that is why people prefer buffs, though nerfing will always be required.

Buffing everyone to that standard will be never ending and will eventually reach a tipping point were the game loses all seance and becomes completely luck based.
At what point does the buffing compensation stop? when every class has a skill that can one shot people? Or the point were luck decides the outcome at a rate of close to 100%. Who knows the point is buffing is not always the answer.



In-fact go back through EDS history and you will find most time OP builds become a trouble is when a buff change has occurred and people hop to take advanatge of the devs mistake.


Also buffing DOES make people quit the game,

Anyone that has quit because BHs outrageously OP thanks to static is because of a Buff.

In-fact I fear buffs,when devs use a buff I know something will probably go wrong and it is probably the main reason I have quit so many times.


quote:

the only solution is to make his drain/regain equal to other classes.



The only solution????

Their amount of solutions is ENDLESS the only limit is imagination.
But something like what I have suggested eg. make EP scaling 2 per stat point or increase base energy are the more obvious solution which don't have a MASSIVE risk of wrecking balance like giving each class ep drains/regians has.

I really don't get how people support the idea of giving each class drains and regains yet object the current state of balance, don't you realize your opinion is the fault of poor balance currently?

I feel sorry for the devs that have to deal with complaints caused by them executing the opinion of the same wrong players



< Message edited by Remorse -- 12/11/2013 4:45:54 >
Epic  Post #: 22
12/11/2013 5:00:42   
kosmo
Member
 
quote:

If classes can't compete because of their lack on synergy and build possibilities then perhaps buffing is the answer.


yeah this is the case.

quote:

make EP scaling 2 per stat point or increase base energy


does that change the fact i can drain 45 ep and get back 50%?
or tht i can boost 37ep and drain 20 getting back 50%?

quote:

I feel sorry for the devs that have to deal with complaints caused by them executing the opinion of the same wrong players


truth is not absolute, and for sure it doesnt come from an opinion (not even yours)






< Message edited by kosmo -- 12/11/2013 5:18:20 >
Epic  Post #: 23
12/11/2013 6:00:59   
Squrwogrona
Member

@Remorse and @Valkyrie +1

It is not yet so, but the way things are going I think we might get to one super class with 6 different skins...
Epic  Post #: 24
12/11/2013 6:19:50   
Remorse
Member

^ It is a scary thought but could be a potential future issue, if they follow this path anyway.

Might I add changing the names and the power of the figures does not make the skill have balancing improving differences, *cough* Static grenade *cough* Static smash* *cough* Blood commander *cough*


@kosmo
quote:


does that change the fact i can drain 45 ep and get back 50%?
or tht i can boost 37ep and drain 20 getting back 50%?


It does not you are right, however once energy scaling is fixed then they can reverse the silly decisions of buffing classes energy drain/regains by reversing it to the previous version of the skill.

The solution is not to however give all classes the same power as the select few OP classes with the above strong energy abilities as this will only multiply the current problem now.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 12/11/2013 6:23:31 >
Epic  Post #: 25
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