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L.40 Juggernaut AKA The Bullied Mode

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6/23/2014 16:51:28   
lionblades
Member

Based on numerous past Jugg threads after the Passive to Active update (3-5) and my personal experience as an once avid juggernaut, Juggernaut is unfairly biased to endgame juggernauts and very favorable to lower level juggs. Jugg gets extremely hard to the point that most games are impossible at L.40. Also, Juggernaut mode has the longest wait time out of all game modes. I have thought of some solutions to this.

I. Remove the Exile/Legion Filter (completely):
The Devs have "relaxed" this feature in 1vs1 and 2vs2 but in Jugg, out of the ten battles I have faced yesterday, all of my opponents were Legion (I am Exile). Taking away this feature will allow faster battles and a wider variety of opponents (and less wait times).

II. Energy reliance:
Energy costs Because of the Passive to Active update, L.40 Jugg opponents can ALL drain huge amounts of energy. On average, my opponents can drain 400-500 energy from me in 1 turn. 1 turn! That is insane! For example, the combo of static grenade and static smash can effectively take away at least 400ish energy in 1 turn. Thus, unless you are a TM with MAX battery you will run out of energy VERY VERY fast. This Passive to Active update along with the Core energy costs have put a heavy reliance on energy and we, endgame juggernauts, need a lot more energy than before.

III. Ridiculous Opponents with extremely powerful skills:
L.40 Juggernaut opponents can do ridiculous damage and have super strong defenses. For example, the Bunker Static Smash Merc has an extremely high damage output and strong defenses. Also, hybrid armor is almost impenetrable. My opponents can rage 2-4 times before I rage which is a minus too. Also, the fact that one opponent alone can drain 300 energy in 1 turn (refer above for more details) is ridiculous and extremely unfair.
Solution 1: A level scaled accessory that can boost juggernaut stats like HP pool and Mana pool
Solution 2: Lowering level ranges.
Solution 3: Scaled HP/Mana boosters and/or Scaled Stat Boosts (Credits to xzkamityx)
Solution 4: Your own solution. If you have a solution please suggest it in the comment section below, and I will add to this list.

These wait times and the fact that jugg mode is completely utterly broken for L40 is the reason why NO level 40 has gotten daily jugg cheevo in the past 5 months or so when I have logged in. Hopefully the Devs realize this imbalance and can find solutions to this mode for endgame juggernauts.

< Message edited by lionblades -- 6/29/2014 18:01:41 >
AQW  Post #: 1
6/23/2014 17:00:55   
suboto
Member

I agree as a lvl40 tatical merc the 32/33/34 opponents are almost impossible to beat.current scale is 30-34 and it needs to be 29-32 that would be more reasonable.
Epic  Post #: 2
6/23/2014 17:44:26   
Goony
Constructive!


 Had a few discussions with Rabble about Jugger mode. At the moment he is still working on implementing the EDGE (Epic Duel Game Engine) to help with balancing skills. It is getting close to completion/implementation...

After that he may be able to spend some time rectifying the Jugger mode. There are some suggestions that have been made in relation to the matching system and how the advantage is derived. Personally I'd like to scrap the level based advantage and move to a stat based advantage so that Juggers battle against opponents of their own level. This is a hard one to code, but in the long run it may give the balance team some more levers to balance the mode.

Can't make any promises about when or if this will happen, but the mode will be looked at when Rabble gets the opportunity to look closely at it.
Epic  Post #: 3
6/23/2014 18:30:09   
lionblades
Member

@Suboto
Yep, good to know I am not the only one who thinks this way.

@Goony
quote:

Personally I'd like to scrap the level based advantage and move to a stat based advantage so that Juggers battle against opponents of their own level.

I don't understand this part...can you explain further? Do you mean stats like legendary ranks or something along those lines?
And much appreciated for the info man. I hope Rabble can fix endgame juggernaut soon and make it so that L40s can actually compete against the low level juggs in Daily.
AQW  Post #: 4
6/24/2014 4:28:40   
zion
Member

I think what he means is that all your stats would be multiplied by a percentage and you would face two 36-40s
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 5
6/24/2014 10:58:20   
suboto
Member

I dont think thats a good idea to do that it would make the mode take even longer and would be far more confusing. just rescale the lvl range for lvl40 juggers.
current scale 30-34 for all lvl40 rank1+
my idea of a new scale
1.change all the lvl range for the 40's to 29-32 or
2. ranks1-30 lvl range 29-32 or 30-32 ranks31+ 30-33
thats a more reasonable scale.
im rank6 lvl40 33 and 34 i stand no chance against in jug mode its a 100% lose. Putting it at 29-32 is reasonable because a 32 is a challenge i could lose or maybe win. 29 added to reduce wait time or just 30-32 is reasonable.


< Message edited by suboto -- 6/24/2014 10:59:46 >
Epic  Post #: 6
6/27/2014 17:34:07   
veneeria
Member

I'd actuality say that is applies to more than L40 enemies. But regardless, i do agree with this.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 7
6/27/2014 23:20:32   
Noobatron x3000
Member

This is dangerous territory legend ranks have made the game bad enough for players after 36 in 2v2 and 1v1 , I'm afraid you'll make the jugs to powerful again so the games un playable from level 30- legend rank 10 40 at least, your not going to keep any players doing that.

Be very careful what you wish for.
Post #: 8
6/28/2014 9:11:47   
lionblades
Member

@Veneeria
Thanks for agreeing. I think this affects the high level ranges the most. For the most part, as the level cap increases (future?) level cap jugg will be further impossible to play. The learning curve advantage will be gone and many players will have top notch gear (besides the other disadvantages against juggernaut I mention in my first post).

@Noobatron
Legendary ranks affect L.36s only in 2vs2. They do not face L.40 players at all in 1vs1. Legendary ranks is a different problem. I am rank 8 right now and it does almost nothing in Jugg mode. I would much rather have a level decrease or something else instead of legendary ranks. For the high rank players, Jugg can be scaled accordingly to legendary ranks. I think it was a mistake to release 100 ranks at once, but its to late now for that. Also, I don't really mean this to affect just L.40s. This can apply to L.38 and 39 since they are so close to level cap and are facing the same problems as L.40s in Jugg.
AQW  Post #: 9
6/29/2014 5:01:36   
xzkamityx
Member

Couldn't you just give a plus 5-10 points in every stat that can have a point put into it such as hp, ep, strength, dex, tech, and support. It could be basically giving juggernauts the boost cores while they are still able to use their own passive cores. Just a thought though.
AQW Epic  Post #: 10
6/29/2014 17:43:04   
lionblades
Member

^That might work, but how would you scale it accordingly to certain levels? Higher level players need more than lower level players. Also, unless Jugg can get a boost in base energy pool (or some other solution) it does not solve the fact that our opponents can take away around 500 energy in 1 turn leaving us with almost no energy (to heal etc.) in battle.
AQW  Post #: 11
6/29/2014 17:52:02   
xzkamityx
Member

quote:

^That might work, but how would you scale it accordingly to certain levels? Higher level players need more than lower level players. Also, unless Jugg can get a boost in base energy pool (or some other solution) it does not solve the fact that our opponents can take away around 500 energy in 1 turn leaving us with almost no energy (to heal etc.) in battle.


They could bring back boosters... just a thought, or let generator be used more than once but have it's effects decrease with each use say by 1/4th each time so you can still get some energy and health out of it like boosters, while not making it to where your getting full energy and health back every 4-6 turns
AQW Epic  Post #: 12
6/29/2014 18:00:23   
lionblades
Member

I don't think getting back full energy and health every 4-6 turn is a good idea. I think it will make jugg OP when we are looking for balance. And gen is only one core, what about the other cores like Piston? However, I will add your stat boost and boosters (scaled) for juggernauts idea as they seem like possible solutions. Thanks for your ideas.
AQW  Post #: 13
6/29/2014 18:12:50   
xzkamityx
Member

on that last part I meant as like its returning 1/4th less each time so your not getting back full amount of health or energy that you would normally get from generator. Example is 200 health and energy from both then goes down to 150 150, then 3rd turn is 100 100. sorry for not making that clear
AQW Epic  Post #: 14
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