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Should the Legendary Mode be deleted?

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2/27/2016 23:26:23   
racing.lo.mas
Member

The legendary mode is the reason of having unbalanced matches and players complaining about it and about underdog mode.
For low levels (38 and 39) is practically impossible to beat a legendary player since most of lvls 40 are over rank 20. Low ranks are having a big advantage vs high ranks: being rank 30 is just enough (you can have +30 defense and resistance, and something else according to your build: +40 bot for focus, +40 aux for supp, +30 primary strength, +40 gun for dex)- Also they have the underdog mode which can give an excessive advantage, that means high luck (ranks just improves somethings but dont improve the "luck"). While a low rank has this, a high rank has lot of improvements that are practically unnecessaries. If I want to run into a support build does +40 gun worth it? or +40 bot?
High ranks are just "good" for focus, they have distributed stats, so they might get an advantage from every improvement.
Overpowered low ranks vs high ranks and underpowered low levels vs high ranks.

Being level 38-39 means stop of doing 1vs1. But it doesnt end there, it stills being hard because they have to do 2vs2 where they will probably face 2 levels 40 who may have a high rank. Their only hope is to find a good partner who can beat 2 levels 40 with a low level. Here the low levels arent so helpful because they dont have underdog mode who can gives them something.
By the way this make level 40 players to complain about having a low level. I know players complaining about having a low level in 2vs2 always happened, but this time is different, you have a really weak partner.

That was all about balance. Here something else:
I dont know about you, but it was really exciting when devs added a new level. That meant new weapons, more stats, 1 skill more, etc. That was nice. But now due to this legendary mode it wont happen again.
Moreover we will keep having the same skills, there wont be new skills because we cant keep level uping.
Epic  Post #: 1
2/27/2016 23:57:21   
goldslayer1
Member

This problem was very easy to see when they implemented it.
All this did was add a way for a player to be stuck at level cap, but still gain statistical advantage through these ranks, while maintaining level ranges the same.
In the end, the one who's not at level cap gets shafted.

It was bound to happen eventually, people just didn't see it at first because everyone was low rank when it first came out.

The devs wont delete it though, they're very stubborn when it comes to undoing a mistake.
They'd rather keep tweaking and messing it up even further.

It happened with lots of things in the past.
A great example is in Delta when they massively buffed Cyber Hunter with Plasma Armor after it had already received a buff to static charge, when the class wasn't UP at all.
Made the class really OP, but rather than removing PA, they nerfed other parts of the class.
I suggested removing/undoing the plasma armor buff, but they wouldn't do it.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 2/28/2016 0:03:09 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 2
2/28/2016 0:27:08   
RageSoul
Member

quote:

The devs wont delete it though, they're very stubborn when it comes to undoing a mistake.
They'd rather keep tweaking and messing it up even further.

Well they did say - although i don't remember who and when but i'm sure one of them did in the forums -"We can only move forward" ( or around those words ) , even though progression isn't about direction ; it's about if said change reached a goal and it would be a good progression when it is desirable/suitable . And i agree to what they did to CH pre-Omega , especially since the attempt to buff them wasn't well thought out as much as the class's skill tree .


quote:

The legendary mode is the reason of having unbalanced matches and players complaining about it and about underdog mode.

After examining for a while , it's like the Omega weapons customization change + Skill Cores update combo all over again ; we ended up having additional features that contradict each other . Why did i use the weapon system and Skill cores you ask ?

* The Dev's initial intention : to have all weapons be usable
* The contradiction : locked Skill Cores , and said Cores causes great impact compared to others.
* Result : majority of the fights everyone has Azrael's Anguish , Frozen Fury Scythe/Annahialator , etc.

quote:

For low levels (38 and 39) is practically impossible to beat a legendary player since most of lvls 40 are over rank 20.

Agreed .
AQW Epic  Post #: 3
2/28/2016 0:35:45   
SouL Prisoner
Member

I mention this like a million times. Raising level cap was always a bad idea. Because it causes balance issues. But some headstrong players were apparently too "bored" and wanted something to keep them busy and hence level kept raising, and finally dev's got tired and raised the level cap so high that only players like Comical can make it there.

Players are to be blamed for this whole mess. And like GS1 mentioned, so far what we have seen, Dev's are stubborn. They had time to create this mess,("war goof") but when we/players suggested to fix jugg,(lower player lvl range) they did not have time for that. I'm done with the whole suggestion thing. Instead if i suggested a rock to move, who knows even that might have happened, but i doubt anything is happening here.

< Message edited by SouL Prisoner -- 2/28/2016 0:37:08 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 4
2/28/2016 11:54:44   
SonicTbear
Member


 Should the Legendary Mode be deleted? Yes. Will it be? No. Are the staff stubborn? Depends, but by not removing Legendary Mode? They made a promise not to. There are quite a few people rank 100+ who put too much time into reaching those ranks. There are also plenty of Legends of rank <100. People will be mad that they put so much time and effort into going that far into the game. If they paid Varium to unlock their boosts, they'll never get them back and it will be like enhancements all over again. They messed up in the past. Especially with this Legendary Mode. But due to the way stuff like Legendary Mode and enhancements work, it would be too late to remove them. It would worsen the damage implementing them in the first place did. Loss of time, loss of money, you know.

< Message edited by SonicTbear -- 2/28/2016 11:55:50 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 5
2/28/2016 13:17:15   
SouL Prisoner
Member

^That's not enough reason not to remove the legendary mode. In the past players spent tons of varium on war kill leader board and that was removed and the same goes for enhancement and token feature. They were all compensated. Legendary mode is already compensated. Players that worked hard got the achievement worth 10k rating. That's good enough. Fixing the game is the most important thing in my opinion.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 6
2/28/2016 13:50:14   
SonicTbear
Member


 How were they compensated? Did they get their credits and/or Varium back? From what I heard, players spent millions and billions (exaggerating of course) on Varium for one reason before it was removed; enhancements. They rage quit the game after that. I assume that they didn't get their Varium back and that they quit BECAUSE they didn't get their Varium back, otherwise they'd stay and spend their Varium on something else because they'd have something to spend it on or they'd have some, period, but they don't. There would be more players online if so. At least 750-1000. Some of those players being the ones who quit because they didn't get their Varium back for spending it on a removed feature IF they were reimbursed. But ED is lucky enough to get at least 500-600 players a day, most of them being newbies. I'm pretty sure the same thing happened with the War Kills and Token features. And if people spent money on legendary mode (unlocking slots with Varium as opposed to credits), then if it was to be removed, they'd never get their money or in-game currencies back and be very mad. There are people who put their lives into ED, and not only is comical on the all-time leaderboards, but he is one of the highest ranked players. He wouldn't be removed from the boards for 1v1 wins, but if ranks were removed and replaced with more levels, regardless of whether he unlocked legendary powers with credits, Varium, or a little of both, that's time he'd never get back. An achievement won't do. It IS indeed impossible for AE and the ED team to refund players the Varium spent on features, making players unable to be reimbursed for what they paid for, which is why, when it was implemented the way it was, it shouldn't have been removed. I'm not saying Legendary Mode is good. I'm just saying it's too late to remove it now now that people put a lot of real-life time and real-life money that they'd never get back into it. That's one reasons for the loss of ED players.

< Message edited by SonicTbear -- 2/28/2016 13:54:36 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 7
2/28/2016 14:07:08   
SouL Prisoner
Member

War kills converted into influence.

Enhancement as achievement as something else.. can't remember.

Tokens converted into credits, and achievement rewarded

For legendary rank. Achievement and 70% credits back spent on unlocking the legendary skills. If you unlocked all, you spent 1.5m. 70% of that is 1m and 50k. Fair enough. Why does legendary rank gotta go so badly?? Well because a rank 8 has to face rank 80 in 2v2 ad there's no "under dog mode" to support in team battles. That's how much it messed up the whole balance. And we can't even blame the testers for doing a poor job because that would be flaming and god knows what....

If i could see all my previous posts, i would give you the link to my post were i warned about this whole mess as soon as i took a first glance at the feature. And the funny thing is things were even worst before. No under dog mode. Although IMHO, having +2 or 3 stats doesn't make any difference when the rank different is in double digits. Anyway they tried :/

< Message edited by SouL Prisoner -- 2/28/2016 14:13:33 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 8
2/28/2016 15:04:31   
racing.lo.mas
Member

When enhancements were taken, they compensated us with an achievement and a % of the varium and credits wasted. They gave back a good % of the money that people wasted.
Devs have tryed a lot to fix this, but they have just make it worst. Instead of trying to fix it, I guess it should be deleted. It is runing the game, and looks like it cant be easily fixed.
Btw its has a lot of contradictions, ranks are supossed to be like levels. If I am higher rank, I must have an advantage because of my high level. Why a low level should have the underdog mode? He hasnt played as much as me to deserve it.
Moreover legendary mode is like making a level 39 fight a level 45, practically impossible.

Devs have made lot of mistakes, but its ok, they are just persons. But they should change some things back instead of trying to fix them when they cant be fixed.

What can they do?
Said the legendary event is over, and its going to be replaced with new levels.
Ranks over 10 will stay in lvl 40, 20-30 will be level 41, rank 30-50 level 42, rank over 50 level 43. Give a % of the money that player have wasted with the legendary points.
Or something like that, it isnt so hard to take this thing deleted.
Epic  Post #: 9
2/28/2016 15:45:40   
SonicTbear
Member


 I could've sworn that some people didn't get their currencies back... But a percentage, apparently, was not enough for those who quit. The full amount would've been better.

I guess not a lot of people will rage if they remove LM. Just put them on a level based on their rank up to a cap of 50. Ranks 1-9 would stay at 40, ranks 20-29 at level 42, 100+, especially at rank 200, level 50 and just leave it there. But it doesn't matter. As much as we want this, the staff promised not to remove LM.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 10
2/29/2016 0:52:56   
Mother1
Member

@ sONICTbear

we were given back 30% of enhanced items we currently had in our inventories and 10% of the credits from all the enhanced items we had in our inventories which while nice really ticked off the masses seeing as

1) They didn't give up all our varium back from enhancing
2) They only gave us 30% of the items we currently owned at the time.

@ OP

Personally many suggestions and ideas have been thrown around in the past. I remember making a thread sometime ago that would make it where ranks would stay but the power they gave in PVP battles would go and be replaced with other perks that didn't affect battle. Sadly just about every high ranked player shot it down saying it wasn't fair due to many reasons (Some that held water and others that didn't)

Here is the topic I made sometime ago and my suggestions for the problem it is already past bumping so don't bump it please.

As for Underdog mode it was created for two reasons not just one.

1) to fix the unbalanced fights that non ranked players faced when fighting a higher level (something that the masses complained about for the longest)
2) to fix the unblanced fights that non ranked players and low ranked players faced when fighting high ranked players (the issue that caused many high ranked players to want underdog undone because it was causing them to lose fights they normally would win)
Epic  Post #: 11
2/29/2016 7:37:51   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

War kills converted into influence.

that "compensation" was a joke with how little it gave to the LB players like the Wawas and 808s.
Influence was further turned into an even bigger joke by how they devalued the hell out of it through wars.

(frysteland and especially Infernal war come to mind)

Little league players with 2k-3k wins ended up with more influence than players with 50k+ wins.
And if a better example is needed, look at the difference between #1 on influence boards and #1 (Comicalbiker) 1v1 all time boards.

The differences in wins is staggering, yet the guy on #1 Influence has more than Comicalbiker by a good margin.

quote:

we were given back 30% of enhanced items we currently had in our inventories and 10% of the credits from all the enhanced items we had in our inventories which while nice really ticked off the masses seeing as

This absolutely ticked me off.
That 30% should have also accounted for sold back items as well. (Originally sell back didn't account for enhancements, then it did, but it was still only 15%)
I sold a few items myself with enhancements on them.

What pissed me off most about it was the dynamic of how you went from using/needing a wide range of items, to using a single set for everything.
You had to have different gear for each build that gave the stats that catered to those builds.

So any competitive varium player basically had energy & physical claws, energy & physical staffs, energy & physical mauls, energy & physical sidearms, energy & physical aux, energy & physical armors.
And if you used diverse builds (I.e. support mage/merc, and str merc/BH) then you pretty much had to get different gear and enhance it.

Now you only need 1 set and it works for everything because the stats and defense is modular.
And knock-offs cores can be put into most items, so not even the original ones provided any kind of bright side in that regard.



The reason why I'd agree to remove it is because they never should have gotten currency involved into character progression. (i.e. levels and ranks)
Ranks are essentially more "levels", that provide similar benefits to leveling up, without actually being levels.

If they're charging you for that, then shame on them on creating more flawed systems.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 2/29/2016 7:39:07 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 12
2/29/2016 7:52:02   
SouL Prisoner
Member

I don't even get why you need to pay 15k to unlock a new legendary skill point. Leveling up is necessity not a leisure. What are they charging for?? You barely manage to make 15k and it's already time to pay up again.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 13
2/29/2016 17:21:37   
RageSoul
Member

^I'm guessing it's to prevent Credit Inflation since every Rank you achieve assumes you have around 24K Credits before unlocking one , but if that's the case they could've thought of a better way to make Credit sinks ( like investment or weapon crafting , etc . ) . The current one gives you a feeling of P2W because of the Varium option and that Rank bonuses are a must have below Rank 30.

< Message edited by RageSoul -- 2/29/2016 17:22:31 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 14
2/29/2016 23:31:36   
SouL Prisoner
Member

And who is responsible for this "credit inflation"?? Dev's made their cash(Through gifting) and in the process players made some cash too, but they can't digest that fact and wants to get rid of that?? WOW.

And if your making credits, what's the problem?? You earned it, you have every right to keep or spend it. Unlocking legendary is not the only thing that requires credits you know. You need for many other things. That 24k your talking about is mostly spent on training or upgrading weapons and buying cores or changing class. That takes everything you got.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 15
3/1/2016 9:47:16   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 Let's take a moment to realize it is because of Fay Bee that you can hold 1,000,000+ credits without the system incorrectly showing your total. RageSoul would be correct in saying if you didn't have something to actively put your credits into they would just be stock piled indefinitely until you find the new credit cap.

This is why legendary ranks cost a good chunk of credits and if memory serves ranks came about before gifting and the price was not increased due to gifting. So blaming the price on gifting is a red herring at best because the problem existed before gifting
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 16
3/1/2016 10:30:43   
SouL Prisoner
Member

That only makes things look worst. They knew about the problem and yet gifting was not only introduced but even returned, lol nice.

That aside, i still don't get what exactly is the problem if someone piles up credits. I don't see people complaining about Bill gate's pile up.(Other than being jealous) How does it effects the game?? He/she earned and he/she uses for his own prosper. It's not like you can buy extra stats with credits or war bombs. And even if you could buy war bombs, what's the problem?? It's not like he/she can only buy, others who earned enough credits can buy too. And if that's the prob then bombs should be battle win drop only.

quote:

RageSoul would be correct in saying if you didn't have something to actively put your credits into they would just be stock piled indefinitely until you find the new credit cap.


Well with that logic YouTube should have kept their viewer count to 100M only.

And honestly let's take a moment like you said, anyone who plays ed everyday cannot go without spending credits. And plus those credit sink aheivement were introduced too. That's reasonable, because it's optional, unlike legendary mode skill points unlock.

AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 17
3/1/2016 14:23:50   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 @Soul what is your needed daily credit sink in EpicDuel? I've got my gear so I'm not buying or upgrading gear. I've made my build so I'm not constantly retraining. The only time I spend credits is after a balance update or if I decide I want to use war cores.

The problem isn't stockpiling credits the problem is when you have nothing to use credits on. I'm going to let you in on some insider information here. Credit sinks are introduced when enough people break a credit threshold so they have something to use them on instead of just sitting on a pile of credits that is functionally useless. They are not actually introduced for the masses to dump credits into but no one has ever stopped you guys from believing that
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 18
3/1/2016 16:04:59   
Satafou
Member

Boredom due to the the game's inbalance or whatever the problems have been at certain points of the game, have often lead to players wasting a very large amount of credits towards class change. It would be incorrect to presume that credits aren't as easily spent as they are earned. People can go through +3 classes a day due to boredom and a lack of diversity within all of the classes. I don't really see why legendary rank slots should be expensive. I personally think when you earn a rank your slot should be unlocked for you, seeing as that person has gotten the bothersome amount of exp to even reach that rank. It wouldn't create a buff for high rankers as each of them usually earn the credits required for unlocking that ranked slot from the PVP wins required to reach it anyways, however it would encourage players to experiment more with classes as they would have naturally more credits and thus reducing repetitiveness within the game's playstyle to a certain extent.
Post #: 19
3/1/2016 17:35:48   
goldslayer1
Member

@Satafou
I agree with that.
There's always easy ways to spend credits.
I went through well over a hundred class changes (mostly varium, few with credits) up until I quit the game about a month into Omega.
Been a tech mage since then.

I put a self imposed minimum of credits I needed to have at all times at 100K.
Think the highest I've gone was 480K (might have gone over 500K one time).
But they can easily be spent, especially since achievements were changed from tokens to credits as well.
AQW Epic  Post #: 20
3/2/2016 3:55:23   
SouL Prisoner
Member

@OWA During wars you need to buy cores and other times even if you don't spend everyday, you change class once sometimes twice(because you messed up) you just spent 100k only on class changing. Now add another 50k for upgrading, buying cores and retraining a dozen of times. Not just your character, but your weapons and that wasn't enough now you have to retrain your legendary skill points too for 500 credits! Now that's all for the main course. Here's more side expenditures. New/seasonal weapons are out pretty much in every 3-4 weeks. There's bikes or morphs, credit eating monster achievements. etc...

A very few players(lifeless NPCers) stock up credits and that too for a goal in mind and eventually they have to spend too.

So basically this whole credit pile thing is pretty much a Halloween hoax.

< Message edited by SouL Prisoner -- 3/2/2016 3:57:05 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 21
3/2/2016 10:29:59   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 @Soul you missed the point of my post so I am going to break it down even further. Things like morphs and credit sinks with incredibly high price tags are meant for the active players pushing 1 million credits. The last check I was around for was done in late spring early summer so this isn't the crowd that just shows up for gifting and leaves when winter break ends* and the guy who was leading this check had 4.5 million credits. Active players with credit values in the millions signals to the devs that they are sitting on credits that have no functional use for their play style so content is created with them in mind. This is also why credit sink achievements get made along side gifting events so if people who aren't using their credits take part in the event they have something to put them towards.

If you are constantly retraining and changing classes then you are not the intended audience for these items because your credits have a use to you. It is like if you have no interest in NPC's than legendary boss fights are not intended for you.


As for things like ranks price and class change and war cores take a second to look at your personal play style and figure out where your credits should be going. I'm not going to tell you how to spend your credits but I did want you to tell me what you are trying to buy because EpicDuel works like real world finances in that money is hard to come by and easy to spend so spend it wisely instead of buying everything and going above your means


*This is a common trend in the entirety of the gaming industry not just AE
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 22
3/6/2016 0:26:46   
RageSoul
Member

quote:

Active players with credit values in the millions signals to the devs that they are sitting on credits that have no functional use for their play style so content is created with them in mind.

Ah , so what happens when people reached 100+ Ranks? Wouldn't we be going back to the same problem again , which is "we have nothing to do" ? While i agree that they should be given something to use their accumulated heap of Credits , it wouldn't hurt to consider those who aren't the targeted audience since they're also players . Also said target audience use Credits for class changing too since sticking to one class means you're vulnerable to counter building , otherwise you wouldn't call them "active" in whatever level of activity they're in .
AQW Epic  Post #: 23
3/6/2016 5:10:40   
SouL Prisoner
Member

^Apparently class chaining is like a taboo", it's not meant for players to explore. Only change when i desperate need. Otherwise why else do we need to pay 50k every time we change class. Why can't it be cheaper after one class change or buy the class permanently and change as many time you want. Already suggested this like a million times.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 24
3/6/2016 5:26:53   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

buy the class permanently and change as many time you want. Already suggested this like a million times.

Yup, suggested this a while back myself as well.
Have the class be an equip-able item if you want to outright buy it rather than change.

Obviously buying it will cost more than changing.
AQW Epic  Post #: 25
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