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6/23/2015 14:50:48   
nowras
Member


Massacre is the worst skill ever in this game its so useless especially in the BH class and the new balance update made it worse so i think if u don't want massacre to have all these effects then let it just have these 2 ones

1- damage increased by 8%
level 1 - 65%
level 2 - 72%
level 3 - 79%
level 4 - 86%
level 5 - 93%
level 6 - 100%
level 7 - 107%
level 8 - 114%
level 9 - 121%
level 10 - 128%

2- 20% life steal (only!) stacks with Mark Of Blood (means mark of blood gives 32% life steal so u will heal a total of 52%)

*I moved pyro fly to another thread*

< Message edited by nowras -- 6/25/2015 15:03:50 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 1
6/23/2015 15:28:36   
Uchiha Sarada
Banned
First Of all you can remove what you posted about massacre and post it here since it looks like the skils like mass and blud etc willl be buffed and if you have a suggestion for said buff post it here: http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=21991838


About Pyro Fly: I dont actually get it, are you saying that it should disable one of the 2 highest lvls skills instead of 3? or that everyone gets to choose one skill to me pyro inmune and because of this it should disable 2 instead of 3? It looks like a nerf to me. And I Dont think they will do something like this for a robot, I dont know what to say yet and I will think about it more, dattebayo
AQW Epic  Post #: 2
6/23/2015 15:33:55   
Mother1
Member

@ Uchiha sarada

he wants to make one move off limits from the pyro fly from what I am reading.
Epic  Post #: 3
6/23/2015 16:51:09   
nowras
Member

I mean when we retrain after filling up all the skills we can choose 1 skill to make it restricted from pyro fly effect so pyro fly doesnt take it even if its one of the 3 highest skills
AQW Epic  Post #: 4
6/23/2015 16:54:33   
Uchiha Sarada
Banned
I think I will support it, Pyro Is more useful for bosses, it doesnt need to ruin other players pvp with a luck special ability, so supported dattebayo.
AQW Epic  Post #: 5
6/23/2015 17:16:56   
Mother1
Member

@ Uchiha Sarada

That was the main reason why this robot was made in the first place. It has the power to destroy a person's build depending on what it hits, but it was also made random so there was a chance it could miss.

It was never used for boss fights when it first came out and hasn't been for years.

The only reason people even started using it for bosses now was because the Legendary titan boss was made and the more recent Zed head boss.

This idea would make it almost worthless in PVP because the one move you would need to take would 9/10 be off limits hence going against the main purpose it was made for.

< Message edited by Mother1 -- 6/23/2015 17:18:06 >
Epic  Post #: 6
6/23/2015 18:31:41   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 The bot is gimped and rather than applying a bandaid fix it should just be reworked entirely. If it isn't reworked then in the future another bandaid will need to be applied as the meta shifts and it just gets really convoluted, confusing, and doesn't help much of anything at all.
Epic  Post #: 7
6/23/2015 18:47:06   
Uchiha Sarada
Banned
Mother youre wrong ive seen OLD ED vids, years AGO of players using the fly to fight bosses.

Mother youre wrong again, this bot wasnt made for that, it was actually balanced no matter what it took because we had the passives which were useful and the bot could not disable them, so against a BH with Bloodlust and shadows arts with lvl 6 reflex, lvl 3 multi and lvl 3 stun with a lvl 2 heal it did nothing, but now they removed passives and are not actives that can be disabled with the bot, you have to think outside the box if youre going to reply to me.

< Message edited by Uchiha Sarada -- 6/23/2015 18:48:37 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 8
6/23/2015 19:00:40   
Mother1
Member

@ Uchiha sarada

quote:

The Pyro Fly is a new pet/bot that can either be purchased in-game from Kraggor or as a promotional item with the purchase of Varium, being worth 3 keys. Its special skill is Infernal Swarm, which causes tiny mechanical fireflies to swarm your opponent and neutralize one active skill at random


Taken from the orignial design notes when the bot was made.

As you can read it was meant to "Take out one skill at random" Which could very well cripple a build if it did take out the right one. That was why it was random.

Also where are these old video's you are talking about? I watch plenty of them and none of them had players using the pyro fly to battle this bot. It was never needed for old bosses with or without passes.

In fact the pyro fly craze didn't even come about when passives were first removed either.If that was the case then last year when they brought back 3 rare robots (the pyro fly being one of them) They would have been massed brought and used as they were now. However that wasn't the case. People were sill using their other robots mostly in battle and very few people use the pyro fly.

It wasn't until the legendary titan came this year that people every thought about the pyro fly and it was as I pointed out because he had one move that some needed removed because it was devastating their health (Bludgeon) which was why many people wanted the bot.

If you played attention to twitter you would have seen that.

Lastly when this bot came out it could cripple builds anyways especially in juggernaut. I know this because I used it with an alt and it was able to do just that by removing a critical move that wasn't a passive such as field medic, or in cyber hunter's case Static charge as well as hurt Merc's sense their passive wasn't critical.

< Message edited by Mother1 -- 6/23/2015 19:13:04 >
Epic  Post #: 9
6/23/2015 19:14:11   
Uchiha Sarada
Banned
Ill go Slowy Now:

First of all the quote means nothing and I know that the bot was made to take 1 of the 3 highest lvl skills, when the bot came out it didnt really caused alot of trouble because passives were useful enought to survive anything no matter what skill it took.

quote:

Also where are these old video's you are talking about? I watch plenty of them and none of them had players using the pyro fly to battle this bot. It was never needed for old bosses with or without passes


Im searching for it right now, so keep an eye on the pms, if I find it of course.

quote:

In fact the pyro fly craze didn't even come about when passives were first removed either. Played a lot of battles and rarely did anyone use a pyro fly even when it became available for all again. No it wasn't until after the legendary titan came as I pointed out that people even bother to even think about using this bot. Mass majority of players used the infernal android, Black abyss bot, or the blood hawks.


Yes, because at that stage of the game the battles were all super quick and most of the players were using str builds and just with the spam of str plus a hawk bot or abyss it was enought to win a battle no matter what the pyro disabled but now str got nerfed and playing slower is better so the pyro is better now, but still I doubt they will still use pyro alot in pvp, unless they enjoy winning off luck because they have 0 skill.

Also I dont find the bot OP, Im fine even if the bot disables my 3 highest skills at once, I can play around it and hopefully win unless Im Unlucky, But I still think is 2much luck based So a small change for the bot wont hurt.

quote:

It wasn't until the legendary titan came this year that people every thought about the pyro fly and it was as I pointed out because he had one move that some needed removed because it was devastating their health (Bludgeon) which was why many people wanted the bot.

If you played attention to twitter you would have seen that.

I did payed attention to twitter and I also Knew that ppl wanted it just for that but that doesnt mean anything, I just agreed to support this change for the fly and I gave my reason thats it, IM ok no matter what happens with the bot, but Im just trying to help the players that are not ok with it.



< Message edited by Uchiha Sarada -- 6/23/2015 19:16:41 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 10
6/23/2015 19:45:14   
Stonehawk
Member

quote:

I mean when we retrain after filling up all the skills we can choose 1 skill to make it restricted from pyro fly effect so pyro fly doesnt take it even if its one of the 3 highest skills.


What? Does it make sense that everyone that builds its skill-tree have to choose a skill to be impossible to remove by pyro fly? Anyway, why would the skill-tree have a new feature specially to counter a single robot when there are so many robots in the game? It makes no sense, I totally disagree with it.

quote:

1- Using Massacre Increases Primary Damage by 30+ for the rest of the battle

2- If Mark of Blood is on when using this skill it makes it last for 1 more turn / If Malfunction is on while using it , it makes it last for 1 more turn.

3- Changes the damage scale of the gun to strength instead of dex


All those new effects on a single skill? Are those real suggestions or selfish suggestions to make your build work against everyone? You choose to make massacre impossible to remove by pyro fly and use it around so that your strength build can use a gun that scales with strength, even higher primary damage and longer mark of blood/malfuncion. Sorry, but my opinion is that I don't see any possibility nor any sense of considering those suggestions.


quote:

The bot is gimped and rather than applying a bandaid fix it should just be reworked entirely. If it isn't reworked then in the future another bandaid will need to be applied as the meta shifts and it just gets really convoluted, confusing, and doesn't help much of anything at all.


I agree with it. Adding a feature on everyone's skill-tree just because of a robot doesn't help at all. If this robot is that much of a problem, it could work this way:
Similar to concussive shot, but having a cooldown instead of only used once, just like Azrael's borg has effect similar to azrael's torment and can be used often.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 11
6/23/2015 21:39:21   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator
quote:

I agree with it. Adding a feature on everyone's skill-tree just because of a robot doesn't help at all. If this robot is that much of a problem, it could work this way:
Similar to concussive shot, but having a cooldown instead of only used once, just like Azrael's borg has effect similar to azrael's torment and can be used often.


Having to recast it is really troublesome. I was thinking something more like it just targets the highest invested skill and brings its effectiveness (and cost) down by half the skill points invested or something. This way it is an effective bot special that definitely has an effect but both the attacker and defender knows what it will do and can play accordingly. At the very least it'd be a step up from the silly cheese robot where locking down the right skill which happens more than 50% of the time will win the game for the user.

IE lots of BM's use max plasma cannon. This would bring down plasma cannon to be equal to rank 5 rather than rank 10. This could be used to shut down builds which are designed to rely on certain skills as a crutch but not cripple them to a point where they have almost no chance of winning. It would have priority on skills in lower tiers (the higher rows on the skill tree) so there is no randomization at all if more than 1 skill is maxed.

< Message edited by Exploding Penguin -- 6/23/2015 21:41:39 >
Epic  Post #: 12
6/24/2015 14:23:21   
nowras
Member

1st of all nobody bought pyro last year cuz it had 140 damage witch was so weak and btw dex mages who had pyro fly were the best EX. Imagine Dragon (the only one who really had a chance to kill me when the 1300 hp tm focus build was op) this year pyro damage was changed to 170 which made it super op and better than kartherax which was the best bot at that time..

Pyro was never meant to be the best bot in game or even one of the best otherwise it'd require 5 keys in delta but it required only 3

Massacre is the worst skill ever in this game its so useless especially in the BH class and the new balance update made it worse so i think if u don't want massacre to have all these effects then let it just have these 2 ones

1- damage increased by 8%
level 1 - 65%
level 2 - 72%
level 3 - 79%
level 4 - 86%
level 5 - 93%
level 6 - 100%
level 7 - 107%
level 8 - 114%
level 9 - 121%
level 10 - 128%

2- 20% life steal (only!) stacks with Mark Of Blood (means mark of blood gives 32% life steal so u will heal a total of 52%)

< Message edited by nowras -- 6/24/2015 14:25:30 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 13
6/25/2015 7:54:41   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 ??? How else am I supposed to counter a dex mage then or a sup merc if im using low hp builds? I cannot support this
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 14
6/25/2015 12:42:15   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 Just because its damage was 140 doesn't mean it wasn't strong at all. People just decided without even trying the bot that it wasn't good because of its lower base damage, mainly because bots are pretty expensive and they don't want to invest in it if they don't think it'll work. The special and the meta's focus on the top 3 skills being 100% necessary crutches for a build has not really changed for 2 years.
Epic  Post #: 15
6/25/2015 15:56:17   
King Bling
Member

quote:

Just because its damage was 140 doesn't mean it wasn't strong at all.


Your wrong, people prefer base damage, decide which one would you want, a bot with jus 590 bot damage or a bot with 640 bot damage, obviously the 640,
plus just like this case, people with varium prefered Kartherax > All bots, because of its base damage and core, but now IA base damage = Kartherax, so even the varium
users prefer IA > Kartherax. Its all about bot base damage in this meta.
Post #: 16
6/25/2015 21:43:44   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 People generally just didn't use it because they either were misinformed by the fact that base damage is the only thing that matters, they didn't have the bot, or it was unreliable due to RNG.

If base damage is what mattered explain the lack of use of lionhart bots after their release before kartherax bots came out, or the fact that barely anybody used yeti at all even though the fully upgraded ones maintained the highest base damage of any robot in the game for a long while.

People preferred kartherax not only because it had very strong base damage, but more importantly because it absolutely destroyed strength builds.
Epic  Post #: 17
6/25/2015 22:42:22   
King Bling
Member

Nope Kartherax > Lionhart > other bots because base damage plus kartherax was deflectable while lionhart not which not many wanted to risk
Post #: 18
6/26/2015 0:38:20   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 So what you're saying is people didn't think kartherax was the best bot because of its special which completely shut down the damage of strength builds when the bot was released during the time where everybody complained about strength builds?
Epic  Post #: 19
6/26/2015 1:56:18   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 I didn't use pyro cause it was weak. Now its stronger. Kartherax was the main choice because str was popular back then. Now that focus and stat spam builds are popular people will use pyro to counter since focus isn't strong. simple
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 20
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