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Why to remove primary damage's last nerf?

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6/13/2015 19:55:48   
Stonehawk
Member

There are some things I've pointed on other posts but I think I should put them together so it becomes more understandable:

1- We all know sidearm now improves with dexterity, making strength totally predictable for only improving primary damage. This was already enough nerf for strength.
2- Lowering it's damage at the same time made the following additional impacts:
2.1- Strength is now the only stat that can't work alone. There are high dex builds, high tech builds (usually with focus), high support build, but strength can be totally stopped with a shield, and it gives no additional effect, unlike support, dextery and tech that gives critical, block and deflect respectively.
2.2- This affected direct or indirectly all skills that improves with primary damage or depends on primary damage for its effectiveness. Let's not forget most of those skills were already nerfed before because of strength abuse. (Parasite initial damage, poison initial damage, Static Charge damage and even some weapons skill cores were nerfed)
2.3- Strength builds for low ranked lvl 40 are totally inviable. 85 strength does only 506 damage without ranks on primary, which can be totally neutralized by tankers or shields. Let's not forget tankers have higher chance to block and/or deflect, are good spellcasters, and can use a good gun or robot, depending on which is the higher stat. Meanwhile, strength doesn't give any bonus, only primary damage and skills that uses a hit with the weapon or improves with strength.

Conclusion: Primary damage couldn't be nerfed if most strength skills or skills that starts with a primary attack got nerfed before, it made them look ridiculous for always doing minimum damage.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 1
6/14/2015 10:08:46   
Dj Pizza
Member

quote:

most of those skills were already nerfed before because of strength abuse. (Parasite initial damage, poison initial damage, Static Charge damage and even some weapons skill cores were nerfed)


Parasite got buffed, not nerfed. It used to be 70% of primary damage and got buffed to 85%.

I do agree with you though. They made STR builds too weak. A nerf was obvious (anyone could stack STR and destroy everything especially from lvl 30+) but the nerf was just too harsh. Now strength is unreliable and they gave indirect buffs to Support stackers (no more 3 hit KOs from STR builds with Mark of Blood) and a huge buff to Dex guys that were already pretty good at blocking them.

What bothers me the most is that not every class could rely on STR abuse to win as much as, let's say, TLM with 135 STR and max Poison / Frenzy or BH / BM with Mark of Blood. I saw people running very skilled yet healthy full STR CH or Merc. They were not overpowered, but were probably hitting the 75%+ win ratio with their well thought build. Too bad the only one really needing a nerf THAT strong was TLM (stack STR, some pts into Dex, high HP, Poison+Frenzy=win), yet they nerfed every Strength aspects of the game.
Post #: 2
6/15/2015 18:08:01   
Stonehawk
Member

quote:

Parasite got buffed, not nerfed. It used to be 70% of primary damage and got buffed to 85%.


Decreasing parasite's effect turns and keeping the same cooldown is a great nerf...also, IIRC parasite used to do 100% damage, and it got nerfed because strength was being abused with it.


quote:

Too bad the only one really needing a nerf THAT strong was TLM (stack STR, some pts into Dex, high HP, Poison+Frenzy=win), yet they nerfed every Strength aspects of the game.


Yeah, right! TLMs are using plan B, changed to Support and they do pretty much the same. Only difference is strength doesn't counter them that easy anymore, and strength loses even easier to other builds. Making a build to beat only support is not worth it.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 3
6/18/2015 20:45:30   
VanitySixx
Member

I'm a strength tech mage and I win fairly fast at around 65%-70%. There are some instances where I'd go unbeaten for 10+ matches. I've been beaten by strength TLMs, strength BHs with swords or claws w/ poison, and so forth. Strength to me is fine just the way it is. I have never been in a more equal phase of EpicDuel in my entire 5 year playing career.
AQW Epic  Post #: 4
6/19/2015 15:08:30   
King Bling
Member

Vanity you use the "new" copied build and it works just because tm has assimilation, blude, and fire scythe so even if someone uses shield on energy, you blude, fire and meteor, while not all classes can do this, do you realize how hard it is for tlm facing someone who just spammed a shield and you have to hit 30 no matter what because it has no physical damage moves, same with merc, only the tm build is doing fine atm because of the ultra buff on assimilation, nothing else.
Post #: 5
6/19/2015 19:15:07   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Why do we make more skills usable with a sword, yet nerf the dmg swords give...? seems counterproductive to me. Id rather have assimilation have a staff req again if that means returning primary str to normal
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 6
6/20/2015 3:38:53   
King Bling
Member

they nerfed skills like bc fc, tlm fc was way useless b4 after the strength nerf gun nerf wrt str, the skill field commander is utter ultra crappy move asf
Post #: 7
6/20/2015 4:02:02   
Mother1
Member

IIRC the staff isn't going to change strength back to what it was. They might buff it a little but not to the point where it was before.

For most it was too much due to being able to get 600+ damage while still being able to be tanky. Strength strike builds were dominating and most went into NPCing because of the frustating of losing to a player who could just spam strike.
Epic  Post #: 8
6/20/2015 5:04:09   
King Bling
Member

duh cant you see, one shield destroys str builds,
kartherax destroys str builds,
intimidate destroys str builds,
crits are against em, first strike chance are against em, deflection are against em,
rage defense ignore % is against em,
gun damage isnt in favor of str,
primary damage isnt in favor of str,
skills are not in favor of str,
even blocks are against str because now primary damage below 600 primary doesnt work anymore
after so many nerfs do you expect str to be a viable option anymore?
its nerfed to ground
Post #: 9
6/20/2015 8:54:53   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 All of that destroys str builds , yet people say its op. It wasn't op, no one just liked to use a shield
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 10
6/20/2015 12:55:22   
Mother1
Member

@ King Bling

quote:

duh cant you see, one shield destroys str builds,


Some went and used either the hawk bot, black abyss bot, or Azreal borg or aux.

quote:

kartherax destroys str builds


Varium bot that is seasonal rare. If it was available like the infernal android was and wasn't a varium only but I would agree. Sadly this wasn't the case so if you didn't buy the promo you didn't have this bot.

quote:

intimidate destroys str builds


Only if you are a BM or Merc. Any other class didn't have this option.

quote:

crits are against em, first strike chance are against em, deflection are against em


All luck factors that aren't granteed to the player. Many times you could have higher support, and tech and they would be the ones getting these negative luck factor while the opponent could very well never see one. That is just how RNG is.

quote:

rage defense ignore % is against em,


Yet rage still made damage higher for them despite this. In other words it still worked in their favor when giving damage.

quote:

gun damage isnt in favor of str


Before the nerf it was which was why they change it.

quote:

skills are not in favor of str


Any skill that has a multiplier is strength powered and while they are blockable they do a % more damage instead of being flat damage like other skills (with fireball being the exception to both rules and massacre being the an exception to the block rule)

quote:

even blocks are against str because now primary damage below 600 primary doesnt work anymore


Mass majority of strength builds used high dex as well so they could connect and the many also used that celtic cleaver sword which removed 7% chance of blocking (Now 8%) along with it which made blocks on with a strength build even less of a worry.

@ TBK

The vast majority of strength builds I saw running around had the Azreal aux or in rare cases the azreal borg and unless you had Hybrid, mineral, or plasma armor the moment you used a shield would take a 65% damage hit. Has happened to me quite a few times when I did as you suggested. Though it wasn't always the end of the world for me depending on how i faced.


< Message edited by Mother1 -- 6/20/2015 12:56:36 >
Epic  Post #: 11
6/20/2015 13:09:29   
King Bling
Member

No mother, even though I use 600 primary damage, per every strike I damage at most 160 to all players, dex beats me like I am some **** and stuff.
Why dont you try strength and then tell us that it "perfectly" fine and needs no buff? If you even win 10 battles out of 30, I will believe in you and wont complain on it anymore.
All those you said are just excuses, and during a battle as a str build user, I can see those points I said affect my wins.
Post #: 12
6/20/2015 15:32:12   
Stonehawk
Member

Strength is just strength. All other stats gives bonus to something and/or defenses. That's why strength USED TO BE stronger. But changing gun to dex already fixed its problem. Now it's underpowered.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 13
6/21/2015 1:06:58   
King Bling
Member

Forgot to add str builds, have more str which gives no special bonus while all other stats give something important and unique
Post #: 14
6/21/2015 3:14:12   
SS
Member
 

 It's weird how some are complaining that strength builds were "able to get 600+ damage while still being able to be tanky", considering now dex builds can do quite the same while being as tanky as it gets, but he doesn't complain about that (800+ damage overload & 800+ damage plasma rain + around 600 damage sidearm, reload with battery backup, assimilation and/or generator if needed and start the cycle again, 400+ defense and resistance will give you enough time for that). Is he a dex abuser, I wonder?..
Post #: 15
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