Home  | Login  | Register  | Help  | Play 

Legendary ranks "revamp"

  		Logged in as: Guest
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Artix Entertainment Games] >> [EpicDuel] >> EpicDuel Balance >> Legendary ranks "revamp"
Page 1 of 212>
Forum Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
10/15/2015 7:47:59   
dfo99
Member
 

 i believe that everybody agrees that chess is a turn based game which requires intelligence to win, there is no p2w and all matches is absolutely perfect balanced since you can't start upgraded and the efficiency of all pieces are equally powerful for both players.

considering that you agree that chess is a perfect game in balance terms, if you starts to play chess today, why the hell would you want to be after few days in same level of kasparov? if you could not beat a grand master player in chess, you would go to the chess rules devs and say "nerf/remove some grand masters pieces" in tournaments? (lmao)

except the dudes who pay for exp boost or keep botting, generally the high ranks players are like "ed grand masters" or at least have years playing ed.
As like is near impossible you beat a grand master in chess and it is PERFECTLY FAIR, it is perfectly fair high ranks be near unbeatable on epic duel.
therefore i suggest:

- underdog removal
- no limit of (10) points in one row of ranks, allowing for example, you set all the ranks in sidearm damage or resistance if you want.
- no limit of 80 leg points, however after the player reach the rank 80 the exp needed to the next level could increase exponentially to avoid dudes get rank 200 or 300.
- to make clear that a high ranked player is supposed to be more powerful, increase the character size per rank level up.

obviously some one will say: "but is not fair put kasparov to play against a novice"
well... it is like say that is not fair a put person who don't have time to study against a person who study entire year in a entrance exam to havard, or it is not fair hyenas live in same hunt areas of lions. at least in epic duel you also get people weaker than you too. then, in my opinion you argument is invalid.






< Message edited by dfo99 -- 10/15/2015 21:45:36 >
Post #: 1
10/15/2015 9:33:56   
Lord Machaar
Member

This is a joke right?
I think you should get banned for trolling.
MQ Epic  Post #: 2
10/15/2015 9:34:14   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 Not really a fan of anything in your post. First off chess isn't balanced as there is a statistical advantage to the white pieces because of first move advantage*.
Second off why would we want to farther unbalance ranks when there are already a good number of logical posts opposing them in their current state

*Stats provided by chessgames.com
White wins 286,181 games (37.56%)
Black wins 210,872 games (27.68%)
264,863 games are drawn (34.76%)
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 3
10/15/2015 9:35:29   
Silver Sky Magician
Member


 ^

It's a troll.
Post #: 4
10/15/2015 10:05:48   
Lord Machaar
Member

quote:

obviously some one will say: "but is not fair put kasparov to play against a novice"


I think he already replied to himself, and I've mentioned it many times, if games were based on your "way of thinking", most games will end up attracting players after beta, simply because how good you are is in relation with when did you start playing that game.
Plus if you are going to use an example, stick to it to the end, using "hyenas" and "lions" at the end is another irrelevant thing you mentioned, since hyenas live in bigger packs than lions, and harvard example doesn't make a sense at all.
We are talking about an online browser game, the thing is, there is a difference between reality and games, we can change games to make them more appealing, yet it is not always the case in reality. So I think you should start comparing games to games, rather than comparing games to animals.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 10/15/2015 10:09:33 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 5
10/15/2015 10:48:23   
Noobatron x3000
Member

Grand masters ? No a low player base handing high rank players fights theyd have to be stupid to lose , Isn't a show of skill at all just seal clubbing.

Ranks are broken and I agree underdog mode doesn't balance anything when you do all the math , even in the rare cases where underdog gives a low rank 40 more stats (not many) then the higher rank player , the only advantage the lower rank has are luck factors tiny luck factors less then 1% to block , deflect ,crit etc, The higher ranks base numbers damage potential , damage taking potential ,

Are still far superior. And this is best case scenario in most cases underdog does nothing the underdog still hasn't a prayer of killing a player of equal skill. And that's the problem a equally skilled player it should be 50/50 not 95/5.

I agree given how worthless underdog mode is it should be removed AFTER ranks are fixed.
Post #: 6
10/15/2015 11:25:33   
dfo99
Member
 

 owa

i know about it, that's why i say that chess is a turn based game as epic duel, it is problem that happens to any turn based game, who start first ways have more chance to win, it is not a epic duel problem. also it is not a problem if the start chance is 50% for both players.

machaar and noobatron

i am not sure if havard works as the majority of universities (or entire USA universities), but generally there is a entrance exam to join due the small number vancancies, the ones who reach the highest grades win the vancancy.

i use the hyena vs lion and chess example because it is a real life rational situation similar as epic duel state. The hyena vs lion example means that is obvious that unless if is a dwarf and sick lion (metaphoric for a noob or dumbass or testing build rank 80 player), there is no way to a hyena defeat a lion, however both have to fight for food like the ed players fight for the exp/credits/wins score/fun or whatever. As like the reality force the lions and hyenas fight, the epic duel upgrade system concept and actually search system force random players fight, however put a rank 80 player to fight against a level 38 player is not that much unfair because a level 38 player can be a rank 80 player, but a hyena can't be a lion. you may ask, "if you logic is true, why don't put a level 1 player against a rank 80 player?" as i said, a hyena still maybe can defeat a sick dwarf lion, but a baby or small hyena vs a adult normal lion would not even be a "fight" same applies for a lv 1 player vs a rank 80 one.



Post #: 7
10/15/2015 11:32:42   
Noobatron x3000
Member

I have no other way to put this then you have a elitist opinion that is extremely bad for the game and represents everything bad about ranks now and why they should of never been implemented in this form.

I hope you understand that the lions will run out of hyenas if ranks stay the way they currently are.

Ive recently been playing a 31 and I have to tell you I was not aware that they had changed it so you face 40s in 1v1 since I had taken a break through ranks , Its just so broken , The closer my character got to 36 the harder it became to find games with insane wait times and often completely unbalanced fights with 4-6 level differences being the rule not the exception in 1v1 and 2v2.

Ranks have made that level range unplayable doesn't just affect level 36 all the way to high rank 40 , It affects around level 30- high ranked 40, Because people don't bother levelling after a certain level whats the point.

Ranks have completely and utterly broken the last 10 levels making for a horrible gameplay experience lacking the one thing a pvp game should have a reasonable balance. There are multiple issues with balance what ranks do is escalate these problems and make them much much worse.

< Message edited by Noobatron x3000 -- 10/15/2015 12:08:05 >
Post #: 8
10/15/2015 12:04:26   
dfo99
Member
 
quote:

I hope you understand that the lions will run out of hyenas if ranks stay the way they currently are.


believe in this was biggest mistake from the devs which ruins epic duel, what everybody want in any upgrade system game is KEEP TRYING BE THE MOST EXTREMLY POWERFUL PLAYER AS POSSIBLE in comparison to the others, because POWER is what instinctively everybody wants (believe or not, it is not about me), that's why the people continues playing agario after dies a lot of times, even starting very small and having to deal with 1000x bigger balls, even after a lot of rage quits. (allow you configure it as you want was good, but turn all equipaments powers equals was maybe the biggest omega phase error ever due this point).

despite both be flash browser games, i don't like compare agar.io to epic duel due they extremly diferent nature of game play and concept, but i hope everybody get it.

-----

elitism is not the case of high rank players, the elite people usually get their power through the hard work of others, the leg rank player get if by themselfs (except the exp booster ofc)
Post #: 9
10/15/2015 12:10:26   
Noobatron x3000
Member

^I don't see your point haven't seen a valid defence to ranks in anything you have said.

Your point is turned into absolute nonsense by one look at the average server number for the last 3 weeks it is around 256 players logged in at any one time. For 40 levels . People don't want ranks

People keep trying to deflect that omega caused the mass exodus , Wrong quite a few players left with omega , But the main exodus was after the implementation of ranks and once people worked out how broken they were.

People had fought to get rid of enhancements and balance the game. The devs agreed handled it poorly with compensation , to upset the elitist players, The to make it even worse replaced enhancements with another form of power creep legend ranks upsetting the majority in this case not the minority.

This is why the server numbers have gone so low.

< Message edited by Noobatron x3000 -- 10/15/2015 12:51:20 >
Post #: 10
10/15/2015 13:16:14   
dfo99
Member
 

 only in your opnion.

< Message edited by dfo99 -- 10/15/2015 13:18:43 >
Post #: 11
10/15/2015 13:21:58   
Noobatron x3000
Member

You cannot say that since the server number backs my opinion as mentioned in the other post.
Post #: 12
10/15/2015 18:15:24   
dfo99
Member
 

 lol, the devs says frequently that what cause the mass "exodus" was the browser flash games falls, and that's why they focus is on mobile games. if i know right, the legendary ranks never was mentioned from devs side as one factor to massive quits/exodus during omega phase.

the point of my thread basically is: legendary ranks is not unfair or ilogic, there is just low level people who wanna be powerful in few days, but can't and don't wanna deal with it.

i also show some examples to make it clear and explain my point with real life/logic arguments and yet there is no post here that is a good counter-argument.

< Message edited by dfo99 -- 10/15/2015 18:25:32 >
Post #: 13
10/15/2015 18:23:22   
Noobatron x3000
Member

2 problems with that statement

1)most of the players had gone before anyone knew about flash

2)Half of the people in the game now know nothing about flash. If you ask them if they like ED they will answer no , If you ask why they will answer omega, If you ask what specifically about omega they will answer ranks and balance in general

I've gone back into retirement I'd got back into the game and was enjoying playing my level 31 then I hit 36 and all I saw everywhere I went were ranks not fun, don't want it so I've took a break again. The server hasn't broke 300 in the last few days

The game cannot continue with so much power creep it simply doesn't have the playerbase to balance it , The matchmaker is forced to start fights that are over before they begin far to often.

You don't have a argument your avoiding maths on ranks vs lower ranks /no rank players and the balance of ranks because you know you cant win that argument.

Your instead making comments that have nothing to do with PVP games or balance trying to make your point.

< Message edited by Noobatron x3000 -- 10/15/2015 18:29:27 >
Post #: 14
10/15/2015 18:37:43   
dfo99
Member
 

 if power diference between the players was a factor to a game fails, agario sure would not have thousands of players online since you have to face balls far bigger than you, therefore you argument is invalid.
Post #: 15
10/15/2015 19:19:42   
Silver Sky Magician
Member


 Enough. Any suggestion buffing the PvP advantage ranks provide will not be considered, period.
Post #: 16
10/15/2015 19:40:42   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 ^
Who has the final say on considering such things?
If that's what the staff told you, then I don't see why they just didn't do it themselves. It is about time that they directly speak to the community so that some people can be convinced that they actually care enough about the game to directly input their own ideas in response to posts made by the players.
Epic  Post #: 17
10/15/2015 19:48:10   
Lord Machaar
Member

^
Does he need a staff to tell him that?
It's a clear thing that buffing ranks would bring outrage to the community, I can guarantee that to you.
MQ Epic  Post #: 18
10/15/2015 23:40:22   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 Just trying to say that IMO it's a HUGE problem for the game concerning the community if the main staff of the game don't even talk to the playerbase anymore on one of the most populated venues for the game's discussion. Aside from the very rare chime in by Charfade and the other AKs (who specialize in their own thing and pretty much lurk around to create certain topics and aside from that do nothing but mod threads to make sure they're in check), we haven't heard ANYTHING on the forums from NW, Titan, Rabble, etc... It's just come down to guest staff taking part in all of the discussions where instead it should be the original, head staff.

It just gives off a feeling that we're all playing a game that has no development team. It is definitely far from a mystery why a lot of people think that the staff doesn't care about the game anymore, because, well, they certainly are doing a poor job of showing that they do care.
Epic  Post #: 19
10/16/2015 1:09:10   
Silver Sky Magician
Member


 ^

This is like saying that Obama has to personally respond to the comments on his Facebook and Twitter posts instead of his PR team. His PR team is there for a reason - so he can spend his time on more important things. He is certainly not going to be personally involved in hours-long quarrels that just involve repeating the same message over and over again.

ED and AE in general does not have the resources to hire a dedicated PR team. No AE game other than AQW has a paid staff member actively commenting on the forums. If the devs do get more resources you can be sure that they're going to hire more coders or artists, because they're sorely needed.

The devs keep up on the forums themselves, and occasionally we highlight things that we think deserve more attention. And we communicate their intent to show that they're listening, and facilitate a player-dev discussion. WE show that the devs care.

And Exploding Penguin, it's not like we check with the devs on the proper response on every single forum post. Most of the time, we already know the proper response because we know the devs' position, which they have consistently made clear and some people consistently choose to ignore. The devs' stance on ranks is known and clear:

1. Ranks pose a balance issue, hence the introduction of Underdog mode, improved matchmaking and other balance changes. We are not going to undo these reforms, directly or otherwise, through suggestions like dfo99's. Further reforms must be well justified and carefully considered.

2. Ranks are here to stay as players have invested far too much into them.

3. Any nerf to the PvP advantage ranks provide must be counterbalanced by increased non-PvP advantages.

All these were communicated six months ago during the last ranks revamp, and even before that. There's no need for the devs to repeat themselves every time a ill-advised thread or post pops up.

< Message edited by Silver Sky Magician -- 10/16/2015 1:26:13 >
Post #: 20
10/16/2015 1:37:41   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 You make a very good point and analogy so I respect it, but what I find mystifying is that the devs directly talk less and less on the forums as the playerbase has gotten smaller. It would make a lot more sense if it was getting larger, but wouldn't it be more natural that there's an even more intimate connection between all of the staff and the players the smaller the community is? From all the previous gaming communities I have been on this is the case. At the very least, public announcements more frequently made that are geared specifically towards the bulk of discussion on the forums would be nice. From my knowledge the devs have said barely anything regarding any possible changes to the energy gain/drain skills which failed to serve the purpose they were supposed to, which was to not be mandatory skills. Just announcements on what the dev team is planning on doing, even if they aren't planning on doing anything about it, would really improve the mindset of the community so they know that the entirety of their stuff is being considered.
Epic  Post #: 21
10/16/2015 2:17:21   
dfo99
Member
 
quote:

This is like saying that Obama has to personally respond to the comments on his Facebook and Twitter posts instead of his PR team.


seriously? some dudes who design a game that have only 200 players online on average, which is like 0,0000000...% of any other huge game, feels like barack obama level... well, it explain why it is easier get a reply from a global super star (not the pr team) than a reply from a important dev in this forum.

quote:

1. Ranks pose a balance issue, hence the introduction of Underdog mode, improved matchmaking and other balance changes. We are not going to undo these reforms, directly or otherwise, through suggestions like dfo99's. Further reforms must be well justified and carefully considered.

2. Ranks are here to stay as players have invested far too much into them.

3. Any nerf to the PvP advantage ranks provide must be counterbalanced by increased non-PvP advantages.

All these were communicated six months ago during the last ranks revamp, and even before that. There's no need for the devs to repeat themselves every time a ill-advised thread or post pops up.


could you send the links for this on design notes? if it is not on design notes then was never officially communicated by any dev. i don't use much twitter or facebook websites.


< Message edited by dfo99 -- 10/16/2015 4:33:54 >
Post #: 22
10/16/2015 17:04:08   
  Nightwraith
Member

I'm not sure what the OP is getting at. EpicDuel would be like chess if there were only one class and everyone had access to the same skillset. ED has asymmetrical balance which, while being more interesting (to me, anyway) it's much harder to manage. Chess players are ranked so a newb doesn't play a grand master. In ED, sometimes a high-level player will match with a lower level, but we don't want the lower level discouraged from playing ever again -- hence the Underdog core. Not all fights can be "fair", but they should at least be competitive. No player should have a magic win button that destroys everyone, because although it sounds awesome, it would get old after awhile.

Legendary ranks and perks can be adjusted over time as balance trends change.
Post #: 23
10/16/2015 17:04:55   
Therril Oreb
Legendary AdventureGuide!


 A big reason as to why the dev's are not communicating as much personally is due to the amount of requests. The dev's read everything, note it all down and try to address them.
But why they do all that, more keep on coming and it is not physically possible to keep up with everything.
The scope, meaning the changes and effects it contains, of the requests decides how much time it takes. There are small and there are large requests but together there is a huge amount of time and devotion needed to do them all.

The team is not big yet the developers address bugs, fix them, create content, Promote the game, work on balance, and so forth.
It is a huge wash list and they cannot keep up with everything. The team is not big enough for all that.

Also, some ideas just cannot be implemented due to technical limitations or something outside of their control as a whole.

So three are other people to address you guys in case there are issues and we forward it to the developers in case they missed it.
So you guys are not ignored, but if they had to report to everyone every time they did something, they would get nothing done.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 24
10/16/2015 17:16:02   
Lord Machaar
Member

quote:

So let's do some math:
Eternal Enhance = Underdog mode level 4 = +2 to all stats.
Eternal Protection = 5 legendary points for defense + 5 legendary points for resistance (10 ranks) = +15 in defense and +15 in resistance.

And since:
Eternal Protection > Eternal Enhance
Then
5 legendary points for defense + 5 legendary points for resistance (10 ranks) > Underdog mode level 4
This is called simple math.* If A = B and C = D, and A > C then B > D.
Usually for 10 ranks in difference, you get Underdog mode level 1, in the example I gave, 10 ranks in difference, is more powerful than underdog mode level 4. Logic.**

Here we conclude that 10 legendary points, where 5 of them are invested in defense and 5 invested in resistance, is far better than underdog mode level 4 that is given when there is 40 ranks in difference.
So in a case of 20 ranks, where 10 legendary points are invested in defense and 10 others are invested in resistance, you usually get underdog mode level 2 but the shocking thing is, even underdog mode
level 6 will be pretty useless. To note, underdog mode level 6 is given when there is 60 ranks in difference, yet only in 20 ranks in difference, underdog mode level 6 is still pretty much useless.

I hope this noted down.

quote:

Not all fights can be "fair", but they should at least be competitive. No player should have a magic win button that destroys everyone, because although it sounds awesome, it would get old after awhile.


Well apparently some do, the win button AKA ranks is actually a thing in ED. You just don't play the game to know it's a thing, you only have an idealist idea of the game, gained through one of the two ways,
mathematical conclusions of Mr. Rabblefroth, or false judgements by whoever in charge of balances and transfers these judgements to the devs.
MQ Epic  Post #: 25
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Artix Entertainment Games] >> [EpicDuel] >> EpicDuel Balance >> Legendary ranks "revamp"
Page 1 of 212>
Jump to:



Advertisement




Icon Legend
New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Forum Content Copyright © 2018 Artix Entertainment, LLC.

"AdventureQuest", "DragonFable", "MechQuest", "EpicDuel", "BattleOn.com", "AdventureQuest Worlds", "Artix Entertainment"
and all game character names are either trademarks or registered trademarks of Artix Entertainment, LLC. All rights are reserved.
PRIVACY POLICY


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition