=AQW= Auto-Play Feature Idea: Feedback Wanted


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5/25/2018 7:27:52

megakyle777
Member

Ok, so a while back on Twitter, Alina posted this poll regarding Auto Farming feature in AQW:

https://twitter.com/Alina_AE/status/998653432667033602

Figured I'd make a thread for peoples thoughts.

My own thoughts is yes I'm up for it, and I want to see some for things like Nulgath or Dage reagents and the like... but for hard auto framing items like that you should farm some yourself to be able to buy it EG a base Nulgath Reagent Farmer requires some Nulgath Reagents to buy it in the first place. Feel free to discuss price of such, I have no idea.

quote:

Alina

Hello all,

I appreciate the time you all are taking to share your thoughts! Here is some additional information to help guide the discussion and feedback:

1. We have talked about this idea, or some form of an auto-play feature on and off for years now. Our idea of "auto-play" is not "open a program to let the game play for you while you walk away and do something else away from your keyboard."
2. This is not a thing we are 100% committed to doing, or doing in a given timeframe, but it IS absolutely worth exploring in discussions with you, the community.
3. If done right, there is real potential to help a number of players better enjoy the game.

4. It is important that we look at how people are playing games now -- ours and others -- as we look towards the future of AQWorlds - both in its web form and in future versions on other platforms.
5. So many of our players are young. Many are ten or younger when they start playing. That was true in 2008 and is still true today. Younger kids these days grow up in a gaming universe that is fundamentally different. Games in general are easier to start playing, and hold your hand much more early on.
6. What we don't want is for people to get frustrated and leave. The fix for that is buried deep within the game's structure and design - both of the larger game and its regular updates.
7. We need to be making games that are fun for you, our players, and that you're able to play, and to progress in, at a rate that feels good to you.

8. Any kind of "auto-play" feature we would consider would also need to be paired with the better botting detection and disruption.
9. Were we to go forward with an "auto-play" feature, it would need to be very carefully designed out, and include some basic limitations. For example, I would not want end-game farming items to be an option for this type of feature.
10. The fact that there is such a strong move for some type of "auto-play" feature says a lot about the reality of our game as it stands, what our players want, and what we need to keep in mind. We need that knowledge to help shape our plans (in whatever form they take) as we go forward.

As Brittney mentioned, there are many ways something like this could be implemented. Some ideas that we've floated are including an idle-game inside AQW, looking at a system like AQ Classic's estates, adding minions that could go farm gold, rep, xp for limited amounts of time while you do other things... there is an almost infinite universe of ideas. We want to get your thoughts on what you want to see -- or not see -- as we explore the idea internally.

Again, thank you all for your time, passion, and feedback. Have a great night, and Battle On!

= Stole your thread, since it was chock full of discussion and the feedback we want. - Alina

< Message edited by Alina -- 5/29/2018 18:19:25 >

Post #: 1

5/25/2018 8:37:33

XeNON_54
Member

So they are trying to make botting built into the game itself?
Because auto farming sounds a lot like botting.

Post #: 2

5/25/2018 9:22:29

thulsa doom
Member

Disgusting!!!
Now we know why AQW has always been so soft on Botting.
I am really at a loss for words.... Have we all become so damn Lazy that we can't even be bothered to play a game?
If this abomination is ever implemented, then AQW will forever be dead to me.
Disgusting!

AQW

Post #: 3

5/25/2018 9:45:35

Foulman
Member

Yes please, I've always wanted to bot. When 1 AFDL piece takes 3 months to complete, that calls for some serious dedication or an autoplay feature.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 4

5/25/2018 11:04:21

Beshin Adin
Member

No. Part of what makes an item valuable is all the time and effort spent on it

AQW

Post #: 5

5/25/2018 11:18:45

Metakirby
Constructive & Helpful!

If they give the option for people to "not play" to get items, what AQW has left (besides rare item collecting) is gone. If a lot of people do not have the patience or willpower to farm for items they want, then they should just let it be and find something else to do and if they don't have the patience for AQW, they should be considering why they still play, if everything is "too hard" or "takes too long". The e AQW is an MMORPG, which means the whole point of it is to make people come back every day, or week, or however often one plays AQW to make progress on a character, in some way or another. AQW is grindy, yes, and not everyone (probably very few) have as much time as I to waste on killing the same boss/bosses/enemies over and over every day to get my next virtual item (sometimes, but rarely, with actual benefit), but just take as much time as you need to reach the end goal. You can farm anything in AQW without being unhealthily addicted to the game, you just have to face that it will probably take you longer to farm an item than someone who spends a couple days straight, farming the same item.

If you want something in real life, you will work hard to get it, no matter how long it will take to reach that goal. So ask yourself this: "Is this item really worth my time?" for everything you would consider farming in AQW. If yes, you should be willing to sacrifice as much time as necessary (even if that means farming only a little bit every day), if no, then don't farm for it, it's that simple.

AQW

Post #: 6

5/25/2018 12:49:02

G Man
Member

I'm all for this, only for the fact that AQW has never made any improvement over farming.
There's been nothing fun, nor interesting thrown into the mix, it's kill A turn in quest for item X merge enough X to get Y merge enough Y to get Z, repeat, and repeat for days, weeks, months on end.
Ot it's kill A for a CHANCE at X or more X
Like quests like Blade of Awe, one could never, ever get it even if they devote several hours a day/week to getting it.
What part about that is fun or fair?

But, I have to agree, no, this should not be a thing, because the items that require farming are "valuable" because of that farming required, it "devalues" them, making there be no point in them existing.

AQW

Post #: 7

5/25/2018 13:13:43

Ikaros
Member

I don't think this will actually be implemented. The reason is that it would defeat the purpose of levels altogether.

Think of it this way, if you log on and everyone around you has the max level with end game gear. If they were to allow automatic play they might as well just start you off at the level cap rather than level 1 since it wouldn't make a difference really anyway.

MMOs thrive on a system of hierarchy in which older players come back due to having invested more into the game. If every player became equal then older players wouldn't feel as if they accomplished anything.

This is probably a poll to make the drop rates easier I suppose rather than actually allowing auto farming.

Post #: 8

5/25/2018 14:19:37

Ziorac
Member

Hmm... I know that in WoW, it's possible to 'auto level' your character and get some of the required items for that level, so you can play the game without having to grind, but in WoW, there's also skill involved in playing a character, which means boosting yourself up means you're still not on the level of someone who's levelled 'manually'. But in AQW, it's just button mashing. It'd completely level the playing field. Which might be the goal.
If they add farmable items like BLoD or VHL to the list of items you can auto farm, then those items lose all value, IMO. Due to cheating, they've already lost some value, but this would ruin them completely. Unless the items/level/etc would have a big asterisk by them in the game (which would be hilarious for the record), but I doubt that. I mean, 'to see who is auto playing' doesn't mean 'to see who gained what through auto playing.' It'd just be so you can see if someone wouldn't respond...

I get that this would counter cheating, but it'd counter it in the same way as just legalising stealing would counter theft. People would still be getting things taken from them, it just wouldn't be illegal. The thieves would be using special auto-stealing tools made by the government....

AQW

Post #: 9

5/25/2018 16:17:42

stuart
Member

Firstly, Thank you Megakyle777 for posting this. As someone that does not use twitter etc. I would not have heard about it without your post. As usual the forums ends up being the last point of interest/contact by the game staff.

As a day one player that has been activley ranking up my main and four alts for a long time this may be the break I have been looking for! By that I mean if it is introduced I can finally give up my "addiction" playing this game, and do something different with my spare time by abandoning them altogether.

I for one will not play again the day this is introduced. They might as well just put all items in a shop and let anyone that wants them pick them up for free. That will save all the messing about!

Im my opinion this will be the final nail in the coffin for the game and for sure anyone thinking about "investing" in any future games from the company should bear this event in mind before even starting to play them.

The game/staff should have been concentrating more on catching and banning bot accounts rather than thinking this way.

AQW

Post #: 10

5/25/2018 17:03:32

Tyroniter
Member

This is bs. If you really want to make player's lives easier, why not just implement easier quest lines rather than thinking of letting everyone just bot their way to whatever they want.

AQW	Post #: 11

5/25/2018 19:30:25

Ted Zlammy
Member

Auto farming eh? In terms of actual gameplay being played by itself to farm for specific things, that's a hard no for me. A good deal of players have put in a honest effort into farming some of the hardest items or just ranking up reputations and leveling up. Would be real, uh, disservice to such players I think.

If AE implemented some sorta Idle-Game-Like extension to AQW where you could passively obtain only raw XP, Gold and Class points (plus maybe some extra side equipment exclusive to it) from it and wasn't the actual game of AQW playing itself, I wouldn't mind the idea of "auto farming" though.

< Message edited by Ted Zlammy -- 5/25/2018 19:31:10 >

AQW

Post #: 12

5/26/2018 0:21:31

Valtorous
Member

Disappointing. My hard-grinding is wasted if this gets implemented, but maybe I am the idiot for putting time into this game. I mean... Alina took the time to suggest it and 50% of the voters want it, so it is likely to get added. Looks to be a short term solution in extending the game's life. I guess they gave up on combating the real problems.

AQW	Post #: 13

5/26/2018 4:56:25

Darches
Member

Sounds good! Obviously the legendary items would take like a year each to farm. People seem to love idle games so this wouldn't be any different.
I hate grinding almost as much as I hate idle games.

AQW

Post #: 14

5/26/2018 8:22:10

Foulman
Member

When you have to pick between improved gameplay or non-existent gameplay

AQW

Epic

Post #: 15

5/26/2018 9:29:59

RKC
Member

Yes please make this happen.

Epic

Post #: 16

5/26/2018 10:25:04

you stop
Member

Just wanted to build up on what Metakirby has been saying:

quote:

If they give the option for people to "not play" to get items, what AQW has left (besides rare item collecting) is gone.

From the poll Alina posted, the Auto Farm Feature would probably be something that would get you EXP, Gold, Rep, and Class Points. I would just like to clarify that none of these 4 require RNG to obtain. So with regards to all of you saying "yes I can just use auto play to farm AFDL for me!" I doubt that would be the point of this auto farm feature.

Next,

quote:

If you want something in real life, you will work hard to get it, no matter how long it will take to reach that goal. So ask yourself this: "Is this item really worth my time?" for everything you would consider farming in AQW. If yes, you should be willing to sacrifice as much time as necessary (even if that means farming only a little bit every day), if no, then don't farm for it, it's that simple.

I don't really mind not having to spend time to get things. After all, if you can get it free, why spend any resources? Please do not take that out of context. My point is, auto farm can have merits. Firstly, it is true that you may liken work in real life with "work" in AQW. You spend time, you get something. However, this is, by the end of the day, a game. An auto farm feature may actually be healthy in certain areas. If we're talking about farming the entirety of storylines so you can just sit and wait till you get those 1% drops, then no, that's not healthy at all. If we're talking about you just leaving your AQW open then in just a few month's time, you have your Void Highlord (or insert whatever item here), no, that's not healthy at all. But get this: a lot of new accounts are immediately faced with a big problem: the challenges of this game early on can be quite hard if they do not spend time on getting good classes. What's AE's solution? Either face an instant paywall or farm your way to 50 and get Scarlet or farm a long way to get a class through rep. Being able to somehow ease that difficulty in farming a class can be quite attractive to new players. Going back to my first point in this paragraph, who doesn't want free things?

BUT again, do not take this out of context. I'm quite against the idea of an auto farm that would make anything much more time efficient vs completing a quest by actually clicking buttons. If for example, by actually playing the game, I can get 5000 rep per minute, I would rather have the auto farm get about maybe 3000 rep per minute. Yes, I want the auto farm to only be able to do less than actual farming. Why would this be better? Of course, we wouldn't want the effort of older players who actually farmed things to go to waste. So to balance things out, I think it would be much much better to have this mechanic attached to it. (Hint Hint: maybe if people add a certain payment, they can raise the value they can get from auto farm)

TL;DR basically the auto farm feature:
1. SHOULD NOT finish entire quest lines or end game items. It is not a substitute for actual play time.
2. SHOULD NOT be more efficient than actual playing of the game
3. SHOULD only be an alternative if one is not so desiring to spend time farming too much.

thanks for reading I hope I can make my points reach you guys

---

Also @Tyroniter, if they were to just make quests easier, that would not be so fit with a concept of inflation. Basically, earlier quests should be easier and late-game quests should be harder. Otherwise, a newbie can just skip all the way to the end part and get a beneficial item. From there, he can just go back to the beginning and be happy with his life. That wouldn't be so much of an experience really but that's my opinion. But I do agree with certain things being a tad unreasonable *cough laken personal armor cough*

AQW	Post #: 17

5/26/2018 11:24:27

Uiluj
Member

I have the same initial reaction as everyone else, that it's basically legalized botting.
They would only ever even entertain this if they admit that this game have several problems:

1. They have made very powerful classes with braindead gameplay. Literally a bot spamming cooldowns can farm the most powerful mobs in this game and there would be 0% chance of dying.

2. A LOT of players spend most of the time inside the game AFK. It creates ghost towns, and it's honestly really sad when you try to talk to someone in a full room and no one responds. With autofarming, at least all that time spent AFKING can be put to use.

3. Grinding isn't an appealing gameplay as it used to be. They haven't done anything different to make it more engaging, which is bad considering it's a core part of playing AQW. I guess autofarming would make grinding less of a chore.

Instead of addressing these problems one at a time, they want a feature that capitalizes on them.

@you stop

quote:

But get this: a lot of new accounts are immediately faced with a big problem: the challenges of this game early on can be quite hard if they do not spend time on getting good classes. What's AE's solution? Either face an instant paywall or farm your way to 50 and get Scarlet or farm a long way to get a class through rep. Being able to somehow ease that difficulty in farming a class can be quite attractive to new players.

The issue is that the 3 problems I listed above do not affect new players at all. They do not have access to the powerful classes, so they'll die a lot while they autofarm. New players are actually excited about exploring new maps and stories, so they do not spend most of the time AFK. New players do not even know or care about the endgame content, and don't really have anything to grind for that takes longer than a few hours.

AQW	Post #: 18

5/26/2018 11:59:13

you stop
Member

They won't die from mobs if they sit in bloodmoon and farm for about an hour or so. From there, they can just do what they want. I did present the option of getting to 50 and farming for Scarlet Sorceress. Also, capitalizing on issues isn't as bad in certain areas as I pointed out. It may end up being healthy. It's quite a weird thing to say, seeing as we currently go by effort. However, there are a bunch of games with autofarming systems that aren't really that bad. Nier Automata, Tap Titans (among other mobile games), etc, have autofarming features.

As for some of the issues you have stated: The "braindead" classes also do take time to be obtained (that, or a paywall). It's an issue that autofarm solves. It's not making the problem bigger. It removes the problem altogether.

The AFK part, I bet that's the point why they even bothered saying that you could tell who's who from the autofarming ones. Alina even made a hashtag called #AFSlay for it lol

And as for grinding, yea that would be it: less of a chore.

From there, once all "essential" things are obtained, a player can now enjoy regular gameplay rather than being forced to be faced with problems such as the ones i mentioned. The current available solutions of AE are very repellent in my opinion.

AQW	Post #: 19

5/26/2018 12:29:31

Shiny_Underpants
Member

So... what would be the functional difference between auto-farming, or just having a single timer that gives you resources from any given quest (provided you've competed the quest at least once already) on a regular basis? Other than having to leave your PC on, increasing both your electricity bill and AE's bandwidth bill.
Logistically, if this were implemented and used by a large number of players, it could more than triple AQW's bandwidth bill. AFKing shouldn't actually use much bandwidth, but auto-farm would.

From there, where people seem to be disagreeing, is having a timer on things significantly different to having them immediately available? I'd personally say timers are just instant rewards' more annoying twin, but I also don't like the pacing of AQW items (i.e. the unbelievable grind).

But then, I've never played AQW very much, so perhaps I shouldn't be commenting.

< Message edited by Shiny_Underpants -- 5/26/2018 12:30:15 >

Post #: 20

5/26/2018 13:28:03

Metakirby
Constructive & Helpful!

quote:

From the poll Alina posted, the Auto Farm Feature would probably be something that would get you EXP, Gold, Rep, and Class Points. I would just like to clarify that none of these 4 require RNG to obtain. So with regards to all of you saying "yes I can just use auto play to farm AFDL for me!" I doubt that would be the point of this auto farm feature.

Just because something is not intended for a purpose does not mean people will not try to abuse every little loophole to their own benefit. Since combat will be involved in the process of farming anything, there's no way to prevent people from using it to gather materials, unless it disables drops, logs out if you try to take manual control, or something like that.

Basically, the only circumstance I would be accepting of this, is if it's only a feature on a single dedicated (and clearly labeled) server and that drops are disabled on that server. If people want to use that feature under those circumstances to farm Gold, XP, CP and/or rep, that's fine by me, as long as I can play like I always have, on the servers I always have, with the people I always have, without spotting these "AFSlayers". If they don't want to play the game, I do not want them in my sight (AFK people do not count, since they are rarely, if ever bothersome in areas where farming is being done). Sure, in the long run you can use it to farm gold to use something like Assistant, but it would be an incredibly long way about doing a simple task.

quote:

BUT again, do not take this out of context. I'm quite against the idea of an auto farm that would make anything much more time efficient vs completing a quest by actually clicking buttons. If for example, by actually playing the game, I can get 5000 rep per minute, I would rather have the auto farm get about maybe 3000 rep per minute. Yes, I want the auto farm to only be able to do less than actual farming. Why would this be better? Of course, we wouldn't want the effort of older players who actually farmed things to go to waste. So to balance things out, I think it would be much much better to have this mechanic attached to it. (Hint Hint: maybe if people add a certain payment, they can raise the value they can get from auto farm)

There's no way to evaluate how fast you can farm certain things at every conceivable level with any conceivable class and every kind of play style (staying in 1 room or walking between certain rooms for example), there's no way to chart that out and give the auto player a "disadvantage" in comparison. Basically, everyone farms at their own pace, there's no universal rep per minute for any rep to use as a basis for this.

quote:

From there, once all "essential" things are obtained, a player can now enjoy regular gameplay rather than being forced to be faced with problems such as the ones i mentioned.

What is "essential" things and what is "regular gameplay"?

According to most of your statements, it seems to suggest that it's "essential" to farm for items that gives you ever so slight benefits (AFDL being the main point brought up at the moment), which it certainly is not. No item with boost is necessary to have, no item is necessary to farm for. I think the main problem that a lot of people face is once they realize that there's something to obtain that gives a benefit of some sorts and requires a hefty amount of grinding to get, they automatically want it, but does not always have the patience to obtain set item(s). They feel obligated to have items which were put behind these barriers in the first place to distinguish the ones willing to grind, and the ones not.

Regular gameplay in AQW does not include being able to solo any boss in the game at record pace, that's just a side effect of power creep. Yes, it can be overwhelming for someone completely new to the game and getting your first "good" class will probably take a bit, but as long as you are unaware, or don't care for the end game, you can have a great time with AQW and not have to worry about the eventual grinding. The sense of exploration has long been thrown out the window for me, AQW mostly boil down to "do quests and farm up all potential AC tagged items" nowadays and sometimes, I may log on and do some of it on my alts as well, but I can feel a significant difference in the experience I get with my main account and my (currently lvl 43) alt account, with Harbringer and LDK as it's only "good" classes.

quote:

So... what would be the functional difference between auto-farming, or just having a single timer that gives you resources from any given quest (provided you've competed the quest at least once already) on a regular basis?

The way I see it, there is no difference, besides the bad rep that comes with the notion of "auto farming". It would essentially turn everything into daily quest type farms, with the option to speed up by actually playing (like Artifact Hunter), which is kind of ironic, considering that people are generally against the idea of daily quests in the first place. I honestly don't mind daily quests, but I do have problems with the idea of auto farming/legal botting, or however you want to name it.

AQW	Post #: 21

5/26/2018 23:30:54

Foulman
Member

AQW should have a daily option for hard to get items like VHL and AFDL. I'd rather spend 20 minutes playing very day with a class that I like (Blademaster) instead of grinding for literally thousands of hours with an efficient, but braindead class that no one likes to play. (Blazebinder and Lightcaster)

If the geniuses who decided that "harder" (unnecessarily complex and filled with 0.1% drop RNG) quests would stop botting, they're clearly way out of touch with the actual players. Revert those changes and compensate those who got the legitimate items without botting. That's if AE is even competent enough to detect any botters.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 22

5/27/2018 0:40:42

you stop
Member

quote:

Just because something is not intended for a purpose does not mean people will not try to abuse every little loophole to their own benefit. Since combat will be involved in the process of farming anything, there's no way to prevent people from using it to gather materials, unless it disables drops, logs out if you try to take manual control, or something like that.

I can only work with so much information that Alina provides. We do not know anything. Who knows? Maybe it won't have to involve combat. It can be a totally new feature that will involve rates. Gold/min, rep/min, etc. If the intention of AE is just the 4 that are mentioned in Alina's tweet, it may very be possible to implement just a rate system. As for pacing, generally speaking you can get a rate if you simply continuously press buttons. That much can be known with enough testing. Although this is just an estimate at best and never an exact value, as everyone will have paces of their own. Nonetheless, I'll still say that there is a rate for everything.

quote:

What is "essential" things and what is "regular gameplay"?

I'd call "essential" as anything that can fit the need of the player. Can't solo a boss? What's "essential" would be a soloing class. Want to clear mobs fast? A farming class would then be "essential." Regular gameplay simply involves what you get with what you have. After all, games are intended for a brain reward system. Some people are happy with just collecting items one way or another. If they have to farm for it, then regular gameplay involves mashing buttons. If it involves purchasing, then regular gameplay involves pressing "Buy" and equipping. I pointed out the idea of "regular gameplay" because what's regular today is indeed powercreeping. Simply speaking, players need a farming class to get something efficiently, hence it is "essential" to obtain one for efficiency purposes. Once that is obtained, "regular gameplay" would then be whatever they want to get after using the farming class. Or if they have a single target class and at the same time, do not see it "essential" to have a farming class, then "regular gameplay" is what they can get with just that, albeit with a different rate. It's a definition of what they have vs what they wish to do with what they have. I do believe that autofarm is an idea suggested because what people find "essential" is something they have to farm for and they wish to alleviate some of the time needed to obtain whatever it is that they wish.

The problem here is on first glance, Warrior/Mage/Rogue/Oracle aren't efficient classes compared to rep classes. So what would be essential for efficiency is to get those rep classes. But again, the option for sticking with those classes are still open.

quote:

Regular gameplay in AQW does not include being able to solo any boss in the game at record pace, that's just a side effect of power creep.

Yes you are correct but it is what it is. AE can spend a good time rebalancing classes and quests but that's not going to help the main issue here: things take time. Some wish to do things faster, and options for that exist. Hence by the end of it, some wish to get the best that they can given the patience they put into the game while some are satisfied with just mid tier classes. Asking AE to equalize everything such that powercreeping isnt so much of a thing is too much work.

AQW	Post #: 23

5/28/2018 23:48:27

RKC
Member

I dont know why people are so uptight about this. If you dont want to use it then go please grind manually. Ive been playing AQW for like 8 years and one of its biggest baddest flaws is the farming part, this isn't an MMO like WOW or TERA where even if you grind least its somewhat bearable. This game literally is just you stare at the screen and press a key like a zombie. People ask why players use bots and when presented with a solution gets mad about it.

Before you say I dont grind, My god I grind for my items and its the worse thing ever in this game. I double dare you to farm for the armor of awe set now. No one is farming it so good luck.

I hope this gets implemented and worked on as soon as possible because I might renew my membership to get seppy's armor. I tried grinding for it and its hell and not just any hell its has a time limit till your membership expires kind of hell. I see soo many people get grindy gear and brag about using bots but Im not that low to do that. Accounts just made last week and they have Seppy's armor, NSOD or BLOD and openly brags about using bots. It just grinds my gears that they are running around till now and we are presented here with a solution that will make it fair for everyone. Yet people find a way to hate it.

< Message edited by RKC -- 5/28/2018 23:49:01 >

Epic

Post #: 24

5/29/2018 1:24:56

Grixus Faldor

It is understandable that people would have misgivings or qualms about the proposed feature, but that is precisely the point of a straw poll and the staff inviting feedback and discussion from the players. It is important to remember that, while there is nothing wrong with expressing your thoughts, there is still the overriding responsibility required of all users to ensure that they abide by the rules. Namely, that criticism is constructive, and, secondly, that accusations of cheating/abuse of game functions/features is not a matter to be taken lightly, and, finally, that when dealing with cheating of any kind it is important to note that there are official procedures and channels in place to address and report these perceived instances. Exploitation of functions/game features, cheating, botting etc. are not taken lightly and it is unseemly and in direct contravention of the rules to discuss them publicly in this forum.

Just a friendly reminder to everyone.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 25

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