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The case for Dexterity and Support Bounty Hunters.

 
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2/5/2011 18:39:55   
Giras Wolfe
Member

1) I am a bounty hunter.

2) I HATE strength bounty hunters. Why? They have ruined this game for me.

I have always been a dexterity and support bounty hunter. I love it. I have delightful 123 dexterity builds, elite and strategic high support builds and any combination of the two.

But, our developers decided to nerf overpowered strength bounty hunters by adding high tech and support requirements to our passives, as you all well know.

As the history of this game has shown us, strength bounty hunters will find a way to work around the requirement and continue being overpowered, just as support mercs were nearly unphased by the dexterity requirement on artillery strike.

These stat requirements have had massive repercussions for balanced high dexterity and support builds. Dex builds are not overpowered because defensive stat builds never are. There's no consistent offensive or good crit landing/crit resistance/high deflection power. Bounty hunter support builds aren't overpowered because of the low offensive power. Our only attack is bazooka, whereas mages have the offensive factor of malfunction and mercs have artillery strike when using high support. Bh support builds only have a high win rate when used strategically and carefully, and they operate slowly.

These new stat requirements have been a wrench in the gears of high dex and support bounty hunters.
To make support builds, we have to draw a great deal of stat points from technology and strength to power the build. The tech requirement on bloodlust has made this nearly impossible, seeing as the support bounty hunter has a very passive technique and needs both passives maxed. That's 38 tech forced on us, so we cannot even make a three focus build properly, let alone two focus. This damages support bounty hunters and made us far less effective.
Dexterity builds, however, were hit even harder by this requirement. Dexterity builds use 2-3 focus and stack points into dex, followed by a blaze-of-glory offensive then very little power whatsoever. Alternatively, we can save a multi shot or stun grenade for a powerful, unstoppable rage hit. A 38 tech/38 support requirements on our passives has ended several of these builds.

What do we need to do?

First of all, remove the requirements on our passives (and take the support requirement of Deadly Aim, that was pointless and random.)
And before you start bawling about strength bounty hunters being overpowered again, listen to this:
Second, put a 40 support requirement on massacre at level one, and have it scale by +1 support required per level. Logically, the requirement should scale up slowly because increasing massacre by level doesn't make it very much more powerful, especially considering the energy costs of high level massacre. This support requirement would do the job of the passive requirements quite nicely. Without massacre, strength bounty hunters are short lived and unreliable. Support is the stat they hate the most, tech was okay to increase because it improves smokescreen and resistance, but strength bounty hunters avoid support with a will because we use no support skills or weapons. If you like, put a 100 support requirement on massacre, I don't care. I'm willing to sacrifice this skill and all strength bounty hunter builds if we can get our passives back.

In a word my plan is: Give us our passives and brutally nerf massacre instead.

Discuss. Please do not bother to reply if all you have to say is "quit whining," "what are you talking about," or "get used to it."

I thought we already have a similar one, so let's just use in one area instead: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion. Thanks. :) ~AVA

< Message edited by AVA -- 2/6/2011 5:33:34 >
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 1
2/5/2011 18:47:23   
IsaiahtheMage
Member

Dude You cant just try to destroy another BH build class because you cant beat it.You cant make all Bounties have a 40 SUP requiremnet on a level 1 masscre that be way to unfair for the Mages and Mercs to have a skill in the same zone as Masscre and have a much lower requirement.I agree about everything else ED is destroying itsef with these stat requirments.
AQW Epic  Post #: 2
2/5/2011 18:51:30   
Giras Wolfe
Member

I can beat strength bounty hunters, in fact I ENJOY crushing them with emp, reflex boost, or just plain old massive dexterity. But apparently no one else can, because they complained and complained until our class got nerfed. Strength bounty hunters are equally ruined with 38 tech/supp on passives as with a 40 supp requirement on massacre. If you think making it 35-39 would be better I'm open to amendments. I'm just saying, if the devs are convinced that putting stat requirements on skills is the right way to nerf one specific build, then at least put a stat requirement on THE RIGHT SKILL. And how would it be "unfair" for mages and mercs? That doesn't make any sense. If you're saying its unfair to US, then how is a 38 requirement on our passives fair to us if mercs have no requirement on hybrid armor and mages have no requirement on reroute?

< Message edited by Giras Wolfe -- 2/5/2011 18:59:42 >
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 3
2/5/2011 18:58:08   
goldslayer1
Member

mages dont have requirement on reroute but they have a cooldown
incase u haven't noticed.
also taking away requirements on passives for BH only makes STR bounties stronger
and adding 40 support requirement for lvl 1 massacre wont change anything since instead of using massacre they will use max cheapshot
with a crit %

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 2/5/2011 18:59:39 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 4
2/5/2011 18:59:10   
IsaiahtheMage
Member

Very good point.That is very unfair how they nerf all bounties passives for one type of Bounty the main part of STR Bounties is the Masscre.I am against any nerfs anyway I support buffs and only buffs.I hate nerfs people always trying to make someone else weaker.
Yes I meant us not them my bad.Yes you are right its unfair how we have HUGE stat requirements on our passives yet Mages dont get one for Reruote and Mercs dnt get one for Hybrid that is why this game is so unbalanced and mostly luck based.

< Message edited by IsaiahtheMage -- 2/5/2011 19:01:49 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 5
2/5/2011 19:00:01   
edwardvulture
Member

I hate strength hunters too, but I just think they should nerf strength progression because all the other approaches are indirectly to the passives when indeed the problem is strength itself. But there are a lof of reasons to left this untouched because of profit. Those pesky item enhancements are probably the biggest source of income for the developers.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 6
2/5/2011 19:01:53   
Giras Wolfe
Member

As I noted, smokescreen/cheap shot bounty hunters die very very fast very very easily.

The sentiment here seems to be that we all hate requirements on our skills, so just changing it to a more reasonable skill won't help.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 7
2/5/2011 19:01:55   
goldslayer1
Member

another thing
if ur a focus and dex bounty hunter why do u care about the passive requirements?
just put tech on 38
get some decent str
hp. and rest is support.
also dont say that all u got is a bazooka
cause support 5 focus BH with smoke can deal alot of damage block alot. crit alot. and then rage u qith an aux
not to mention that their deflect boost goes up
and energy shield goes up aswell
so quit QQing
AQW Epic  Post #: 8
2/5/2011 19:04:10   
Giras Wolfe
Member

...sigh. I'm talking about balanced low focus high support and dex build being pointlessly nerfed by a balance attempt aimed at strength builds.

Focus bounty hunters are irrelevant to this discussion.

When I said bazooka is all we have, I obviously mean its all we have for an offensive. All our support skills are defensive: healing, dexterity boost, and resistance increase. Mercinaries have 2 massively powerful attacks, artillery strike AND bazooka, and mages can take away ludicrous amounts of tech with high support.

And what the heck does QQing mean?

< Message edited by Giras Wolfe -- 2/5/2011 19:06:54 >
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 9
2/5/2011 19:06:12   
orrthehunter
Member

^ QQing mean "Crying". It's a basic insualt used for people who complain about things in games.

< Message edited by orrthehunter -- 2/5/2011 19:07:16 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 10
2/5/2011 19:10:33   
Giras Wolfe
Member

@EdwardVulture

Finally some sanity enters the discussion. The roots of this games problems are indeed in the fact that we have so many enhancement slots, and that a stat gets more powerful the more stats you dump into it. Strength should increase slower at high amounts instead of faster. That would be a more permanent and wiser fix. I'm just saying the current fix is pure insanity.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 11
2/5/2011 19:16:03   
Silver Sky Magician
Member


^

Actually you could always have passive skills at a lower level. 7 seems to be the optimum for Blood Lust.
Post #: 12
2/5/2011 19:17:37   
goldslayer1
Member

dude
str already increase every 4 points and not 3
ur lucky people with 100 str dont have 32-39 str while they need 120 to have 32-39 str.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 2/5/2011 19:18:29 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 13
2/5/2011 19:18:04   
orrthehunter
Member

^ Ya high defense with good blood lust will make any BH deadly and hard to kill.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 14
2/5/2011 19:18:31   
Giras Wolfe
Member

That's still more than 2 focus worth of tech, 32. I will make one thing clear, I can still make builds. I just have fewer options and have lost several good ones to this ridiculous attempt at balance.

Maybe this isn't the best fix ever for strength bh, but it's far better then this one.

@Goldslayer

I'm "lucky" strength doesn't improve every three? Yeah I guess I'm "lucky" they didn't make this game completely unplayable, huh.


I'm getting tired of arguing with you kids. Bye.

< Message edited by Giras Wolfe -- 2/5/2011 19:26:15 >
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 15
2/5/2011 20:08:23   
Luna_moonraider
Member

well i personally like to have a dex/support bh as a partner in 2v2 they are great partners and they kill support mercs like paper( if he dun get a uber crit from thier arty). while 2v2ing today i ran into a bh name mecho. he is a var bh and he uses a support bh build. he beat me and my support merc partner tough it took him a long long time to beat us he still won without luck. his partner was an average merc(lvl 28). str bh are great partners when i m using my sword build( cause i have lvl7 fc and it give round 45 str). but it is true they spoil the game because they made some good bh build unusable. as for the merc side i think support mercs spoils the game( of cause tank mercs are much harder to kill but they use wits and strategy do support mercs use strategy hmm idk) because of thier lucky crits here and there. well giving mass a higher support requirment is a good idea imo but wats done is done devs cant change back naything once they are released( well that is wat i think). u can always reduce the % dmg. btw i think the devs wants every1 to go around with gamma bot having 5 focus. sigh ain that boring. the support requirment on da made casters not able to have da if they dun have decent support.

< Message edited by Luna_moonraider -- 2/5/2011 20:16:05 >


_____________________________


AQW Epic  Post #: 16
2/5/2011 20:09:20   
frogbones
Banned


I feel your frustration, Giras. Unfortunately, when it comes to these forums, thoughtful commentary is hard to come by. That, coupled with the gestapo-like mods here, have successfully squashed most of my desire to post anymore. (holds breath and waits for ensuing ban).

Shoots, maybe I should just get a diary ....
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 17
2/6/2011 3:45:03   
semolino9
Member

If we keep complaining about losing to a specific build and demanding nerfs or buffs like stat requirements, we are all going to end up with 5 focus builds, it is killing the skill in the game. You cant just demand nerfs on a class simply because you cannot beat it. If you really want to beat a specific build, simply create a counter build. Try to change your self before you try to change others.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 18
2/6/2011 4:16:17   
8x
Member

Did you ever think about low lvls? They can't just get 40 support for massacre...
Epic  Post #: 19
2/6/2011 4:19:38   
Silver Sky Magician
Member


How about this: stat requirements increase as your level increases. Thus lower levels will have a lower support requirement than the high-level strength bounty hunters that everyone is complaining about.
Post #: 20
2/6/2011 4:31:58   
Snaipera
Member

Balance in this game is not just for lvl 32s . Putting 40 support requirement on massacre would mean that this skill will be useless until like level 20
AQW Epic  Post #: 21
2/6/2011 5:21:31   
Drianx
Member

In this situation I think Massacre could be replaced by a maxed Cheap Shot. Of course, it can be blocked, but when it is not, it would deal similar damage and in some cases, even more damage than Massacre.
AQW Epic  Post #: 22
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