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Fix block rate

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4/23/2014 2:05:44   
Matt 1000
Member

The block rate for dex mages is way to over powered and it requires no skill put all into dex then win games off pure blocks i have vsed many dex mages who will block 5-15+ times in 1 game it gets very annoying they should cap the block rate properly again.
AQW Epic  Post #: 1
4/23/2014 12:45:05   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Supported. Sometimes I feel as if they are exceeding the 35% limit (or however it may seem). They are mainly impossible to hit without a high dex build and Celtic Cleaver.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 2
4/23/2014 22:00:05   
Mother1
Member

Not supported.

It sounds like you are just upset because dex is doing what is it suppose to do increase block change. Also the max block rate is 35% fixed unless they are using ninja reflexes which makes it 39%.
Epic  Post #: 3
4/24/2014 0:16:33   
Thylek Shran
Member

Not supported as it would make the blocking part of dexterity obsolete and would weaken this stat alot.
DF Epic  Post #: 4
4/24/2014 0:33:17   
Matt 1000
Member

Dex is over powered already without i'm not saying completely remove blocks just reducing it to a max of like 3-5 blocks instead of up to 15++ all you see in 1v1 is HP STR DEX builds.
AQW Epic  Post #: 5
4/24/2014 3:47:40   
Seteriel
Member

Working only on one stat that is (more or less) fully working is not the way to go. We should rather look at all stats and buf the one(s) that do not work.
Maybe the blocking part should be moved to a different stat instead, like support ? This would weaken the blocking, but dex would still be for hitting and skills - plus it would buff support, with only minor touch on 5-focus.

< Message edited by Seteriel -- 4/24/2014 3:49:17 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 6
4/24/2014 3:54:19   
Matt 1000
Member

@Seteriel i agree with buffing stats instead of nerfing but when have they ever done that? all they do is nerf nerf nerf so im sure they would more than likely reduce the block rate than buff the weaker stats.
AQW Epic  Post #: 7
4/24/2014 8:46:03   
Thylek Shran
Member

Dex is not overpowered. As example the popular TM dex build with Overload and Plasma Rain could be
beated easily by 5 focus tech builds and is just the reaction to the way more powerfull strenght/HP builds
that are also dependant on dex. Their power does come from the burst damage they can do and the source
of this is strenght and often unblockable cores that are based on strenght and the much to high legendary
bonus damage for primary and gun weapons. Up to +30 damage that is available every turn is OPed but
not dex. Also alot skills like Bludgeon are based on strenght and are overpowered in the higher character levels
because of the percentual damage bonus but also because of short cooldown turns and very low energy point cost.
DF Epic  Post #: 8
4/24/2014 20:10:34   
Sesura
Member

I supppose it not reasonable enough to nerf a stat just because it annoys you. It is just the basic perk of what dex gives you if you abuse them. If it annoys you, why not change to mage too and beat every dex caster mage using the same build too. Perhaps that should solve yerr problem.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 9
4/25/2014 0:44:03   
Matt 1000
Member

Look at technician @Thylek Shran energy damage isnt going to do anything with a +50 technician on level one this is another skill which needs to be nerfed way to over powered hardly any of you even pvp enough to know what is or is not OP i am on the board everyday i am experienced enough to tell dex is massively over powered in blocks. Also look at low levels its full of only dex mages and your saying this stat isnt over powered being able to 2 shot anyone + blocking 24/7. @Sesura I do not want to be a dex mage i want to be able to have variety in my class and build choices + i like to win fast which this does not. @Thylek Shran i also made another post about legendary points high hp strenght builds being OP im not only saying dex mages are OP so is high hp strenght builds compared to everything else f5 cannot compete as i have tried.

< Message edited by Matt 1000 -- 4/25/2014 0:45:59 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 10
4/27/2014 23:38:49   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 In my opinion I think it should be lowered to 30%. 35% (39 with reflex) is nearly half the match. Either that or don't make blocks only 30 dmg.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 11
4/28/2014 17:31:16   
s0u1ja b0y
Member

Dex doesn't need any changes at all. Leave as is. Dex tms can easily be beaten. Mercs,chs, and caster tms dominate them.
Epic  Post #: 12
5/1/2014 13:53:05   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 "Nerf a stat because it annoys you"? Lets not forget everything else that was nerfed because it "annoyed players" and it was "OP"(Abyss Bot being one of them). This is infact the same case, the blocking rate for Dex Mages is completely overpowered and your comment of "Dex Mages can easily be beaten. Mercs, chs, and caster tms dominate them" is highly discriminatory against the other classes.

Once again, I believe that Dex is completely fine but the Block rate should be lowered to 30%.

And if you guys think it's fair then @Matt 1000 try using a Dex Mage build at your rank. Then you guys will understand. Dex Mages will be unbeatable by rank 30, I have tried it and the only reason I don't use it is for the betterment of the game. The only reason I don't use it is because I'm not going to abuse something that I know is completely overpowered. 500+ primary damage, 138 dexterity+33, 396 resistance and a level 1 technician that boosts my technology by 50, while I have 1100 hp. If that's not OP then I don't know what is. I even have a zooka with 17 support at a damage of 480 with no weapon stats on it. The problem isn't the legendary points, those are fair. The problem is that I'm utilizing my 39% chance to block to the MAX and I can't be hit. Lower it to 30% and I'd get pawned, even with the amount of defense and resistance I'd obtain.

I have done 100 matches with that build. I haven't lost a single one and I've blocked 12-13 times in each match.


The block rate is OP and needs to be fixed, or I will use that build again and I won't change from it. Then I will encourage every other high ranking player to use that build and we'll inevitably force you guys to beg on forums that the block rate needs to be fixed or something needs to be done about dex mages. Your move.

< Message edited by The berserker killer -- 5/1/2014 14:02:52 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 13
5/1/2014 14:30:37   
Dual Thrusters
Member

@beserk

Guess what? That high primary damage comes from the legendary stats that lean to strength. One could also argue that if the mentioned classes were also the same rank, dex mages could be beaten.

But I'm still up for the block cap decreased to 30%. The less blocks the better.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 14
5/2/2014 18:26:49   
SCAR
Member

All I'm seeing here is complaining, ( No offense. ) It wouldn't make since to move Dexterity to Support because the basic idea of Support
is that it boosts things that Support your ally, plus the whole name for Support, it wouldn't be logical to put it in that Stat. The factor for
Dexterity is still into play, for example, the person you're facing has more Dexterity than you do, he has a much higher chance to hit you,
you on the other hand have a much lower chance. Now if your Dexterity isn't to far away from whom you're facing, or if they're both equal
none of you will Block to much, unless one of you does something that'll boost your own Dexterity, or lower your opponents Dexterity,
then the Blocking factor will come back into place.

Not Supported.
Post #: 15
5/6/2014 12:54:09   
Archlord Raistlin
Member
 

 The bottom line is that the devs have increased luck factors to allow
the balance tracker to show what they think is game balance. What
they don't realize is that it makes the game overly frustrating much of
the time and players quit because of it.

One of the worst luck factors is blocking. It has gone from a "once-in-awhile"
phenomenon (beta) to "happens-all-the-time" (omega) phenomenon. This
has been done to give lower levels and F2P players more chance to win, but
I agree it has gotten out of hand. I don't mind some lower level help on
occasion, but all too often the battle is decided because of it.

Lower the block rate and the game becomes less about luck and more about skill...
Post #: 16
5/6/2014 16:01:43   
Mother1
Member

@ Archlord raistlin

they do that and when blocks do occur they will be even more frustrating especially when someone get really lucky and block 2-3 times in a row.
Epic  Post #: 17
5/6/2014 18:32:30   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 All you have to do to beat dex mages is consistently drain their energy and out-sustain them. Given the huge amount of high-HP strength builds these days, it's definitely not possible for them at all since their field medic does nothing as they rely entirely on base max HP.

Just get a build with heal looping and sustain potential. Then dex mages can't do anything to you and the build in general should work against most opponents.
Epic  Post #: 18
5/8/2014 20:51:51   
K E N D R A
Member
 

 I agree that blocks have become too much of an issue, but I don't think lowering the max block chance is the best solution. It's true that dex mages block (and stun) so consistently that luck has far more of an affect than skill.

The problem is that every 2.5 points of dex change block chance by 1%, whereas 3 points of tech change deflect chance by 1%. This is very unbalanced considering that block applies to far more attacks than deflect, and has a much bigger damage reduction.

If block chance changed by 1% for every 4 points of dex rather than 2.5, it would require more of a dex advantage in order to reach the cap of 35%. Keep in mind that almost every strength build at level 40 has fairly high dex- usually 85+, and the best ones have 100+. Even 5 focus builds tend to work better with higher dex than tech. Dex is an extremely important stat for strength and 5 focus builds even though their block chance usually isn't even close to 35%. This is why lowering the max wouldn't balance dex with the other stats- because high dex is essential in ALL builds, not just for dex mages.
Post #: 19
5/8/2014 23:56:32   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 But blocking should not be an essential part of the game. This is a PVP, not Player Lucky Vs. Player Luck. Sure, blocks should happen once every couple matches but not 9 times a match.. Maybe the problem is that blocking an attack should only deflect 50% of the damage honestly. Afterall, its a BLOCK, not a MISS
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 20
5/9/2014 0:04:17   
Mother1
Member

@ the berserker killer

IIRC a block used to be the equal of a miss before they changed it so that it would do 15% damage. Also Rabble said that blocks would hold more weight that deflections and they wouldn't change that. So unless they decide to change their minds on that I doubt this will happen.

Also if you think about it the entire game in a fight is luck. Why because of Random Number generator. Remove blocks, delfections, crits and stuns and you will still have the range of attacks going against the range of defenses.

The numbers will never be consistent so even without all those there is still luck.
Epic  Post #: 21
5/9/2014 0:07:14   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 Blocks used to be misses (100% damage reduction). It sucked really badly if you got a rage zerker blocked. It also sucked that shadow arts used to boost block chance by 10% which didn't help your mentioned player lucky vs. player luck on BHs and dex CHs in delta, who were probably 10x more annoying than dex mages now. It was so bad back then that you couldn't even expect to strike a BH without getting blocked 35%+ of the time, which was a risk no one was actually gonna take unless they needed to. Static charge used to also be a set recovery amount so I could hit 3 damage on strikes and heal 20 energy every 2 turns, which made dex CHs extremely annoying because of a decent malfunction coming from the shadow arts support requirement, never getting blocked on static charge for ensured energy, low-costing EMP which shut down almost every class that couldn't regain energy (which was pretty much everyone save for TM and CH), ridiculous damage on even level 5 multi shot which barely cost anything, and worst of all a 40-50% block rate. Passive plasma armor almost made them have an average 40-45 defense and resistance, and dex CH battles literally could go on for 50+ turns until someone crit due to heal looping.

Seriously, there were counters made back then to those kinds of builds. Did we all forget them or something?
Epic  Post #: 22
5/9/2014 0:07:32   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Don't get me wrong, but I phrased myself wrong in my last post. I don't think that Luck is a part of this game, I just think that the chances to block are too high.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 23
5/9/2014 0:14:22   
Mother1
Member

@ the berserker killer

there is a difference between high block chance and the frequency of blocks happening. Let's say blocks were reduced to only having a 15% chance of happening. however even with this people still manage to 3-5 blocks per match?

People would be even more upset? Why because even with less of a chance of a block happening this still happens. Problem I see as Exploding penguin mention people are using high strength builds which involve a lot of striking which means blocks. I barely see player using non melee based builds which result in the dex builds we see as a form of counter to strength builds.
Epic  Post #: 24
5/9/2014 0:23:01   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 True someone may have a 15% chance to block but then it'll be nearly as rare as getting Frostbite from any of the winter armors. And that's pretty rare enough for me.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 25
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