A big issue ED has with new Core/Skill/Robot creation.


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A big issue ED has with new Core/Skill/Robot creation.

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7/11/2014 12:17:26

Remorse
Member

I am not the best at explaining concepts fortunately I found a video explaning a big issue in ED.

And that's a lack of counter-play considered when new cores/skills/robots are made or changed. The Video explaining what it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRBcjsOt0_g

How is the apparent in ED?

Many new robots and skill cores I have found to limit and reduce counter play so much so that builds become so dominant and hard to counter.

For example, the creation Azreal Borg, (or the sheild reducing cores),
What does it do? It reduces the shield of the opponent, but up until then shields were an effective strategy for countering things like debuffs etc.

Shields themselves even before the cores were easy to counter with energy drains or debuff timing (not using the debuffs straight away in assumption they would shield)

So what did this core do to variety?

It massively reduced the effectiveness of shield builds allowing power debuffs builds to dominate with very low counter-play to that particular effect.

Was it a bad decision to make? Overall I believe it was at it reduced counter-play overall and reduced variety in strategies.

What can be done about this one example?

They need to introduce a counter for robot/core special effects, similar to how heal completely counters poison.

For example a cleanse style skill that can cleanse certain negative effects.

I would like to use this thread to discuss perhaps way in which ED has mistakenly harmed counter-play with the introduction of certain cores/skills

and perhaps give examples of ways they could introduce skills/cores that would improve counter-play.

Like the video suggests I think it would be very beneficial if before they created new skills/cores that they thought about the counter-play effects it has, testing can be different to this because testing may merely look at the power of the skill/core rather then it's effect overall.

The overall concept is, ED needs to focus on increasing valid choices for all strategies and classes, and I think a big reduction in popularity is due to reductions in the number of valid choices despite it seemingly have more with usable choices, these choices can actually reduce the overall VALID choices.

This is apparent in the very restricted and small build variates in the meta now compared to say beta or gamma, despite having more things since then.

How do you guys feel about the the video, counter-play and the number of valid choices over time.

Please share your opinion and discuss.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 7/13/2014 7:31:07 >

Epic

Post #: 1

7/11/2014 13:16:09

Mother1
Member

@ Remorse

The Azreal borg and Azreal aux core aren't shield breakers but buff breakers.

Remember field commander and blood commander are purely offensive buff and those two items you listed counters them. If this was a shield breaker as you said than those would never be affected. Also Technician and reflex boost while they do increase defenses also improve offensive skills that improve with dex and tech which makes them both defensive and offensive at the same time. The only shields that are truly in the game that are pure shields are Plasma armor mineral armor hybrid armor (None of these are affected by Azreal borg or Azreal aux core) Defense matrix, energy shield, and blood shield.

I can agree with you on one thing about this bot/aux. When it first came out it was used to get around buffs so offensive 4 turn builds would be more effective. Most wouldn't use the bot/aux for defensive purposes because most didn't use those kind of builds or think to use it this way. In fact I think I may have been one of few (if any) who brought this up.

As balance is now more people are using it defensively especially against those who use blood and field commander which in turn prove this bot/aux core is being used for defense rather than offense.

On topic

An interesting concept. While the staff won't do this in the form of a robot (Due to them not wanting one robot to be able to counter them all) a skill core would do just fine for this.

< Message edited by Mother1 -- 7/11/2014 13:18:39 >

Epic

Post #: 2

7/11/2014 14:00:44

Remorse
Member

^ Your missing the point mother,

The point is the creation of that item ended up reducing total valid choices people could use. (everyone as a whole)

And that reduction of choice has been part of many over the years I have played and has caused very boring game-play.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 7/11/2014 14:01:36 >

Epic

Post #: 3

7/11/2014 14:15:22

Mother1
Member

@ remorse

I got your point, however i noticed you always called this bot a shield breaker when it is in fact a buff breaker. People only used it originally to get around defensive buffs since they used 4 turn builds back then and giving up one turn to break a defensive buff after you smoked or malfed them was effective.

However now debuffs are nowhere near as powerful as they were. All debuffs other than intimidate were nerfed hard where as buffs got just that indirect and direct buffs to them, and unlike before we now have hybrid armor (which is so strong with tank builds that it can stop strike builds in their tracks) Mineral armor and Plasma armor which are as I pointed out not affected by these items as well as more than a match for any kind of debuff that they guard against.

But that wasn't all that of my post remorse. I did say a core for countering robots would be a good idea to help game play however as pointed out by the staff they won't do it in robot form.

Epic

Post #: 4

7/11/2014 14:38:20

Remorse
Member

^ Perhaps they will even consider using robot to do it.

But in a less obvious way, for example if they made a robot that applied a shield that stopped them being effected by any NEW negative duration effects for say 3 turns.

That means it is an indirect counter to robots with a duration effect.

However if it only worked on new effects (as in it physically won't allow the enemy player to use it on them) rather the existing effects it wouldn't be a direct counter.

Anyway their logic that stated that they wouldn't ever do it in the form of a robot I think is unjustified especially considering all this information from very successful developers such as riot games about counterplay.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 7/11/2014 14:39:13 >

Epic

Post #: 5

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