RE: Poison Suggestion


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7/19/2014 13:47:42

Remorse
Member

@ Mother,

I suggest you ignore peoples responses like this and perhaps not respond to them in the first place. ( I'm not talking about you xam)

@Xam
Back on track though,

What do you think of adding other counters to fill the gap between the poison short CD and the heals long one?

Because I do agree that nerfing poison CD to match heal is a viable option if they were to go the uncreative and simple route but this route has not been often good in the past.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 7/19/2014 13:50:56 >

Epic	Post #: 26

7/19/2014 14:29:42

Mother1
Member

@ xamurai

Poison skills do cost energy to use so putting them on the same level as a free bot cooldown wise would be a little too harsh. A 3 turn cooldown as Trans suggested would be more fair seeing as it does cost energy to use those skills.

@ Remorse

Poison was weak before because

1 It couldn't be looped by most with the exception of TLM seeing as they didn't have ways to get back enough energy to effectively loop it
2 The damage output outside of poison back then was which discouraged most abusive builds from using it.
3 The energy cost was higher and the poison output was weaker by 1 (10 now)

The only thing that was different before was that TLM's poison on had a 1 turn cool down but this didn't help it due to the other problems.

However thanks to so many balance changes as well as making it so all classes can get back energy (Some faster than others) as well as cores that give back energy it is a lot easier to loop this for some as well as have decent damage output outside of the poison thanks to the 85% damage buff. Anything that had 85% damage or higher that works with strength from my experience gets abused by strength builds. Lowering that damage output or fixing it to a something that isn't so abusive alike Xamurai suggested would help with this problem since strength builds are discouraged from skills that don't give high damage output.

Epic	Post #: 27

7/19/2014 14:39:36

Bagofbricks
Member

Personally id say poison is good as it is now. Right now a lvl 10 poison takes 280 energy, for a potential of 390 damage over 3 turns (plus whatever amount dealt when using the skill, which for a lot of situations is the minimum). Many other skills can deal that much damage for 20 more energy, but in one turn. The fact that poison takes time and can be eliminated after only one turns effect makes it quite manageable to beat

AQW

Epic

Post #: 28

7/19/2014 15:13:26

AQWorldsFarmer
Member

Alright seeing that I haven't been keeping up on my thread, I didn't read some of the comments but here's my imput:

I WAS considering lower levels. I compared poison to the way focus works. Currently no matter what level you are, max poison does 130 damage.
as for focus is unable to obtain lvl 5 until higher levels, lower levels have to determine what level they want their focus at in order to keep a sufficient build.
This same concept applies to my idea of poison improving with focus. Lower levels can choose how much power they want to put into their poison by altering their ability to raise a single stat.
The damage will be on par with their level instead of being able to do 130 damage every round at lvl 16...

P.S. Thank you Xamurai for bringing my attention to my thread.

Post #: 29

7/19/2014 15:21:37

Mother1
Member

@ AQW

It would have helped if you had mentioned that in the original post as well seeing as it seemed like you were aiming this at higher levels.

Also at lower levels until you get to at least level 26 it is almost impossible to get focus 5 due to a lack of stats. Plus where you are in a range where Dex TM and a few others dominate due to lack of counters this would in a sense hurt players who don't want to use focus or can't use focus when battling these builds.

Poison was originally designed for combating tanks and low level builds. The problem here is that the staff buff the damage outside of the poison so much that now strength builds (builds that normally didn't use poison) are now abusing it which I can agree is a problem. Add to the fact that every class now can get back energy (Another poor band aid fix thanks to complainers as well as the huge strain on energy brought about due to the passive to active change) We have people now looping poison.

What needs to be done is to find a way to once again discourage poison spamming while still making it effective for the builds it is suppose to counter which are as pointed out low HP and Tank builds.

Which was why lowering the damage given outside of poison as well as increasing the cooldown would help in this area. Making it 4 turn cooldown however would be too much seeing as poison outside of the bot does cost energy to use.

Epic	Post #: 30

7/19/2014 15:22:53

Xamurai
Member

I deinately like the idea of poison improving with focus. And np

AQW

Epic

Post #: 31

7/19/2014 15:30:23

Remorse
Member

I definitely don't like the idea of poison improving with focus,

Why should 1 other build type get all the advanatge?

That definitely wont help variety at all their should be more build variety then just STR and focus did you know..

I would prefer it if it had a longer CD and extra counters were added,

We shouldn't have to be trying to discourage STR from using poison because that's variety, we can't just discourage all variety that becomes viable...

We just need to give more counter-play options to all aspects, so people can manage them themselves.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 7/19/2014 15:33:31 >

Epic	Post #: 32

7/20/2014 7:20:11

King FrostLich
Member

Some things you can do to improve it:

1.) Upon healing from a poison skill, player cannot be poisoned for 1 turn.
2.) Increase cooldown from 2 to 3.
3.) Can be cleansed by generator if physical armor is > resistance armor placed(i.e.: 170 hp and 130 mp recovered will cleanse poison effects)

Epic	Post #: 33

7/20/2014 7:35:12

Remorse
Member

^ Hmm I like the after heal turn immunity idea, perhaps they could make it an armour passive core:

Antidote Medic: After healing gives the player a 2-3 turn immunity to poison effects.

Epic	Post #: 34

7/20/2014 13:10:49

King Bling
Member

@ Xamurai, Variation and Mother1

According to your posts and debates, I have seen this has mainly been targeted for those high levels, however this nerf might help the low level, and thus abuse dex tm more, at high level, those bounty hunters who still use poison, as I have seen some in 1vs1 and 2vs2 as well, this nerf would destroy their build and creativity completely moreover, for those chs who rely on massacre/posion build who have no other option but to be forced this build due to ranks etc may die ( by that I mean the build may fade off..) those tactical mercs who get crushed as tanks out there cannot rely on poison and the str tact build will vanish off.

Not only this, this would make those bms, bhs using str/focus build use mob + field medic, which would make this skill further useless, and dis-balance the whole system of classes, since this skill is shared with more than 2 classes.

Post #: 35

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