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I suggest a war improve

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8/20/2014 12:09:41   
suboto
Member

as all players agree that the 1st infernal war was the best war in epicduel history more wars like this one is a must!
Epic  Post #: 1
8/20/2014 12:41:52   
Satafou
Member

The first infernal war, many considered they were cheated out on. The first gate Legion completely destroyed exile with a even bigger gap than what legion players have complained about this new war and then exile managed to magically win. I personally hated the 2 vs 2 npcs, as most of the time I ended up getting the brain dead npc vs 2 actual players. Whilst other players got either vs 3 npcs or with a actual player against 1 player and 1 npc. I'd personally say the first infernal war was even worse than the one happening now. Also making each war similar to another would just be boring.

< Message edited by Satafou -- 8/20/2014 12:43:13 >
Post #: 2
8/20/2014 12:53:13   
Mother1
Member

@ Satafou

The problem now is that OP wants this war to represent hard work and not P2W.

As it is now these wars are almost carbon copies of the frostland 1.0 war which with the exceptions of unlimited bomb buying and PVE way to earn war points, is exactly like these wars.

The infernal war however no matter how much money you had you couldn't buy that war. You actually had to battle to even get a crack at the boss and when you fought the boss you had to actually fight it not drop (insert X amount of bombs here). Plus when you did fight the boss you could only use 2 bombs a fight.

The whole point of this suggestion is the nerf the P2W in these wars into the ground and make people work for their wins. Doing so would make it a lot fairer for those who don't have deep pockets when not only fighting in the war but for the world domination and war hero cheevos a well.

Epic  Post #: 3
8/20/2014 13:00:51   
Satafou
Member

You also have to remember this game needs a way it can be funded. If we want better quality realises it needs money to support that. A lot of the time wars are bought, the richer side has a greater chance of winning that's just how wars are. Although the infernal war was PVP based (hard work) , was it fair pvp? Other people got very easy battles whilst others like myself ended up getting worse off partners than usual (which is saying a lot). I'm a legion player, we've lost 6 wars in a row. However I still think that wars should have a pay to win element in it, because that's war. Countless factors contribute to winning a war and money just so happens to be one of them. With varium losing ALL it's power now and only giving speed for players, they need to create a way people will still buy varium to support the game, so yes this meaningless war just so happens to be their way of getting money because without these wars, what can you do too convince players to spend money on this game whilst making everyone equal?
Post #: 4
8/20/2014 13:33:30   
Mother1
Member

@ Satafou

Well people are still spending money to get influence boosts, as well as comestic items that make them look good. Take a look at the varium only bikes. people brought thoses didn't they? This mean the game is still getting funding.

Also while I know the game needs funding, players who are fed up with losing because of these frostland 1.0 war style play are quitting now.

The last war was extremely close and many of those same legion player I see in game blame the same thing you are trying to keep in the game. AKA the pay to win in the form of buying super bombs.

They want it gone cause they believe it is what is causing them to lose and personally I would love to see the war involve PVP or PVE battles like all the other wars did before these wars.
Epic  Post #: 5
8/20/2014 13:55:32   
Satafou
Member

The pay to win the war is part of common war it always has been. Not to mention exile does in fact have more players, why do you think they added the change to legion for free? There has never been anything for free and now suddenly a very important feature during the middle of a war is free. Also even if this game could survive on influence boosts, as well as cosmetic items (which it can't) we want to improve Epicduel, we want this game to achieve it's full potential which sadly we always end up going backwards. Although this game has made mistakes causing it to go backwards. We have to forgive and forget and continue to further support Epicduel to make it greater than just surviving. As you've said there's been a big focus on weapons which players have been buying. However the truth is that a lot of art work has lost quality to older items, such as founder armour and delta armour. I'm not saying I can do better because I can't even draw a circle whilst drawing around a cup but that doesn't mean I can't tell when there is a great decline in quality and a great increase in quantity. This would be fine, but EVERY weapon is the same, all the same stats and all the same requirements. Therefore players look for the top quality weapons which as of lately we have failed to produce. That's why this game currently needs the pay to win feature for this war.
Post #: 6
8/20/2014 14:07:11   
Mother1
Member

@ Satafou

you are right every war had some sort of varium funding to them. However The infernal war combined both of those and if you didn't noticed when that war was going on all the server even doom was up and running which was something that didn't happen for the longest.

That right there tell you that even though you may have had a bad experience with that war people not only enjoyed the war, but it brought out the best in the ED community and that war was more hard work based than pay to win.

While I am not saying it was perfect it was the most fair of all the legion vs exile wars seeing as you couldn't buy the war.

Also the reason they made switching free again was because they wanted to help balance out the sides for people who wanted to switch. It was mentioned in the forums by some people and the staff even though they don't post like that do read the forums and put in idea that are suggested. That was just one of the suggestions made.
Epic  Post #: 7
8/20/2014 14:22:46   
Satafou
Member

It wasn't really the most fair war, as I've previously mentioned in one of my posts, many legion people felt they were cheated out of the infernal war. Mainly due to the devs helping exiles, likewise many exiles are complaining about this now despite them still winning every war. On the first gate legion had a stupidly high lead on exile, the biggest gap we've ever seen, yet exile managed to win the second gate out of no where and eventually win the whole war. Also during the time of the Infernal war. Epicduel had a much larger player base and pay to win players than we have now. Further more how exactly was it "hard work" killing brain dead npcs in a 2 vs 2 battle, it was basically the same as the ebilcorp war except 2 vs 2. Also it didn't bring out the best in the Epicduel community as many people especially legion players were furious by the results of the war, actually causing possibly the worst exile vs legion flaming our game has ever witnessed. Your last point just further proves my previous post of saying exile has more players than legion.

< Message edited by Satafou -- 8/20/2014 14:24:44 >
Post #: 8
8/20/2014 14:50:53   
Mother1
Member

@ Satafou

During the first door I remember exiles were quitting when legion got their lead and thought they lost. That was the reason why Legion got their huge lead seeing as I was on the exile side. Then there were people who were on the exile side skipping the fight with the boss which also causes this to happen.

However when the second door came Exile got the motivation back and fought harder. Plus remember what the reward was for breaking down the second door was? First cracks at getting to the new level which as even more of a motivator.

The third door was won by legion as well if you don't remember. Exile didn't win the whole thing they just got the one door that counted the most which was the final door. Plus legion also had the magma bombs which worked exactly like the necrosis core does only on the vaults.

However my original point was with the infernal war Non variums could actually win the influence LB where as with ever other war we had only those who had deep pockets could win these wars. Many Players who are working hard all day trying to get bombs and in some cases on top of the LB's for most of the day get their work spat on by some rich son of a gun who has a ton of super bombs and drops them for about 2-5 minutes.

Now please explain to me how is that fair to the person who invested a whole day to go after something only to have it snatched away by the rich person who did none of the work. That is one of the many things the masses are upset about and to tell you the truth I am as well. Even if I were to use the commander core for every battle I am only granteed regular bombs which are < super bombs.

While you and many other may not like the infernal war 1.0 you can say for a fact that anyone who played the day away to get influence be they fight human or NPC was not rob by some rich person at the last minute due to the fighting being mandatory and that is what I am getting at by the infernal war 1.0 being more fair.

Epic  Post #: 9
8/20/2014 16:18:20   
Satafou
Member

There's a difference between a lead and complete domination. Legion didn't just beat exile in that first gate, they were crushed. Also exile ended up ultimately winning the whole war because they won the last gate. In a war there is no second place its either win or lose. Kill or be killed. Again you seem to blankly ignore my point of money being a main attribute to war. It's only logical that money has some factor in a war. Now you ask me how it is fair for varium users to get massive amounts influence within a short time? That is a simple question, stated by the devs themselves, "Varium is a shortcut". Just like how it is a short cut for influence. Influence gives no power to a player, it gives no advantage in PVP. Now I don't know what you think, but these wars are not the main aspect of Epicduel. The main aspect is PVP. Tell me how players spamming bombs makes them overpowered in PVP? Varium is now used for short cuts only, no one said that can't be for bombs. Also who cares about achievements, I don't know about you, but I care about win ratio and amount of wins more than achievements that give you useless stars. Very little achievements have meaning, the only ones I can think of on the top of my head that actually prove anything is daily 1 vs 1 2 vs 2 and juggernaut. If varium is only used for speed now, then it's perfectly logical for that speed to be for influence also.
Post #: 10
8/20/2014 17:10:18   
Mother1
Member

@ Satafou

I don't know where you been but every event in the history of epic duel be it war or saga had some sort of PVP or PVE in them That actually held importance! Also in every other war minus the old frost land one No amount of money you spent gave you the ability to dominate in said event. As best it gave you an edge but never 100% domination (Exlcuding frostland once again)

Even more proof that the staff was trying to remove Pay to win was when they removed the old warlord cheevo which was 100% pay to win. They even said they removed it because they wanted to get rid of pay to win not enhance it.

However Epic duel when it made these wars due to people complaining about how the dreaded war 1.0 was boring and wanted it to end (Like all the old war events) Instead of doing this they made this war which as I pointed out makes PVP battles a core aspect of the game worthless and easy to bypass if you have the money to do so which is a huge and I mean a huge step backwards.

None of the past events has ever made the battling of opponents be it player or machine completely meaningless not even the first frostland war and that is saying something.

Also why Cheevo's have little meaning to you they mean a lot to other players, and those who work hard to try and get cheevo's only to have their hard work spit upon due to the pay to win system aren't happy with this in the least. I am not saying money shouldn't have power no far from it, however It shouldn't have so much power that it dominates anyone who isn't spending it and is working hard towards something either.

That was what I liked about the infernal war and that is the part of the war I hope they add into these cycling wars. They need to make the battles hold some impact on the war just like they did with all the other events in the past. Because as I pointed out no matter how much power money had the Battle system also held power as well which is something this war system needs.

Epic  Post #: 11
8/20/2014 17:41:44   
suboto
Member

The part i liked about that war was the constant surprise of stuff behind the vault that had ability to help with war, npcs, cool way to attack the vault, and include 2 bombs.
A way to work this into the regional war system would be both exile and legion have to attack 3 "insert name heres" and after each one it has a cored weapon/armor that helps only in the war against the "insert name here".
The 1st to break down the "insert name here" gets the prize. but the next "insert name here" wont be able to attack til after the other side gets through theirs. Then at the end we all get what tier prize we earned but how ever. The winning side gets the secret box. PvE possible for 1v1 but as for 2v2 might be breaking battle balance. Then after u battle u get to go attack that "insert name here"
The secret box would be cool as cored weapon or armor that works only for that region you won so next time that region is back in action you earned you right to a slight advantage.
Epic  Post #: 12
8/20/2014 17:56:51   
Satafou
Member

If the staff are really trying to remove pay to win from the war, why did they even add varium bombs in the first place? That's because this game relies on the players who support it. They need to find any way possible they can engage players to buy varium. They removed the warlord achievement because they could afford too. At that time we had very strong promo's and who can forget enchantments. Achievements are hence the word, something someone achieves. Tell me what does the achievements you buy with credits mean to you? Do they have any value or are they just an pretty icon that comes with a number. Daily 1 vs 1 2 vs 2 and juggernaut hold meaning, they mean you were the player with THE most wins in that one day. Phrase achievements also hold meaning as it shows others when you started to play Epicduel. However even dailies like fame, and achievements like rockstar and even bosses now, although back in early gamma they did have meaning as they were fairly hard to defeat. They now hold no self achievement. Any related to fame is basically saying wow, you've begged for the most fame in a day well done. Very few achievements hold that sentimental value and anyone can see that. Varium's only use is speed in omega. It has lost ALL it's pvp advantage. Even the promo's aren't very strong and the only strong promo since omega has been available to every non varium player for credits. Now I don't know about you but, I'm sure most people find fighting against npcs pretty meaningless especially in a pvp focused game. Frystland was npcs, infernal was 2 vs 2 npcs, ebilcorp... well lets just say that's where matt 1000 got most his 1 vs 1 wins from. The only war to even drop bombs from non-npcs is our current one which you believe is a horrid war. Back to what i said before if they really wanted to remove pay to win for this war, why would they add varium bombs to be bought in a shop that constantly refreshes? This game needs support, not only to sustain but to grow. We all know Epicduel has hit an all time low now and it needs more money to do some much needed high quality adjustments. This game needs pay to win whether you like it or not, it's the truth. Epicduel needs some sort of way of making money it will never be 100% free of pay to win. If varium became even more unavailing the game we love so much simply couldn't sustain itself and we wouldn't be able to do any major needed updates. Epicduel would just slowly crumble.
Post #: 13
8/20/2014 18:23:47   
suboto
Member

Advantages for varium in omega:
Quicker to level
Quicker to buy credits
Quicker to unlock legend slots
Quicker to get arcade gold prizes
Lion heart robot 190dmg strongest robot
Lion heart P and E primary that has a core
Name change w/ achievement
Quicker to change class
Quicker to buy house
Quicker to buy any weapon/armor/robot/bike
Blood hawk P and E
Golden Yeti
Blood hawk mutation
Dino hawk mutation
Flight module
Omega overrider primary
Hair styles
the list goes on but there is reasons for varium
Horder
But as for war the need for a feature just to buy varium bombs and spam them without even battleing isnt needed and ruins the war and its fun. so makeing a battle mode against the kill target is highly necessary.


< Message edited by suboto -- 8/20/2014 18:26:17 >
Epic  Post #: 14
8/20/2014 18:38:43   
Satafou
Member

Half of the stuff you've listed falls into the same thing lol. A lot of people already had a lot of stuff you've listed before omega even started your only item I'd even say is worth getting at this point is hawk P and E. Also the golden yeti wasn't bought with varium... Also you've listed "quicker to" many times, which is the only point of varium now. You don't buy credits with varium nor are many people foolish enough to spend varium on legendary slots considering by the time you rank up you have the credits for it. Class change people use credits, arcade gold prizes are nothing important, just a big rip-off, unless you care for a set of achievements that hold very little sentimental value. As I've said the only advantage of what you've listed is the hawk bots. Which to be honest is easily replaceable by other bots. Varium doesn't have a very high value just now, which is why this game is relying on the war bombs so much, other than war bombs there isn't really anything people actually need, in order to be equal in PVP other than ranks which people PVP or npc for.
Post #: 15
8/20/2014 18:50:45   
suboto
Member

Lion hart robot is the strongest robot in game which is advantage as a non var cant get that high
Epic  Post #: 16
8/20/2014 18:54:04   
Satafou
Member

By damage, the main key to a robot is it's unique special.
Post #: 17
8/20/2014 18:54:12   
Mother1
Member

@ Satafou

The majority of my cheevos were earned with battle tokens with the exception of the phase cheevo's my infernal slayer cheevo (You had to buy the sword for this one) and the ones that came after the change to credits from battle tokens.

Also remember world domination cheevo? Remember when that cheevo actually meant something? It used to mean something to this game. It meant that your faction worked their butts off to gain influence and at the end of the day everyone in your faction could take pride in knowing they worked hard for that cheevo when they got it (Getting while not playing but being in the faction when your faction got it was the exception to this) However thanks to said event world domination has lost all of it's meaning.

Like war hero it can be easily gotten by just buying a ton of bombs and spamming them at the last minute or being the biggest bomb spammer without even fighting. I don't know about you but this event has destroy the pride this cheevo used to give players due to the lack of PVP battles having any power over it, and that is something that needs to change IMO.

Also I never said money shouldn't have an impact on events like this one. Promo's in every as well as money event gave players an edge yes, but they never (with one again the exception of frostland) gave the person so much power to the point where they completely dominated everyone who wasn't spending when it came for war prizes.

What I am saying is not to remove the edge money gives but tone it done so that everyone can enjoy these events not just paying players. Cause while the game does need support money wise it also needs support player base wise as well. And if the pay to win element is taking away from the fun non varium players are getting due to them feeling like their hard work is spit upon by someone with money they will quit said events and the player base will also suffer.

I don't know how many times I had my friends tell me they had their hard work spat upon just because some (I won't say the exact word) Came online last minute and destroyed 20-23 hours of hard work in the last 2-5 minutes of the day.

TL:DR Give money an edge that helps in events but don't give it so much power it makes other players work meaningless.
Epic  Post #: 18
8/20/2014 19:21:04   
Satafou
Member

World domination is the same as daily 1 vs 1 2 vs 2 and juggernaut factions. All those are meaning less. They are ran by alts. In beta gamma and even up to mid delta. You rarely saw a alt faction winning. However not so much 1 vs 1, but 2 vs 2 and juggernaut in particular there has been zero competition between factions. First place has 400 if you're lucky for 2 vs 2. Back when I had my own faction at one point our first day we got 1.1k 2 vs 2 wins. Many other 2 vs 2 factions have obtained and even exceeded that, but now what do we see? Low wins, done by alt factions. World domination died when faction competition died. Also you say we need support from the player base. When this game was heavily pay to win, we had a much larger player base and Epicduel was receiving a much greater income. I understand that players get annoyed by their hard work getting ruined, but when I decided I wanted to be good at this game and take it seriously, my first step was buying varium. If you want to be a top player and achieve a lot within this game. You have to buy varium. Few players have made it to a high level of competitiveness in this game whilst being non varium and they were admired by it, for example new hope. However she had a 66.6% win ratio. She isn't the best, not even close. Why? She didn't take that step of buying varium. You can't expect to beat people who do put money in without putting any of your own in. Even in a real life situation. You can train as hard and you want but in the end of the day if you don't have the talent, sheer determination won't be enough to make it. However if you have the talent and you have sheer determination you'll achieve greatness. So to try my best to clearly explain how that relates to your friends misfortune at this war, he has great determination to win, but he doesn't have the talent (the varium). This results in it being pay to win, however if the devs truly wanted this war to not be pay to win they wouldn't of added the options to buy variums or at least slow down the refresh rate. My point being with these circumstances of the devs wanting it to be pay to win, he can't possibly expect to win, in the end of the day it's an achievement, big whoop. The war will be over soon and then this won't even matter anymore.
Post #: 19
8/21/2014 2:05:21   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Just give us 1.0 back.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 20
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