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robot adjustments balanceing

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9/20/2014 13:43:27   
suboto
Member

My threads about the balanceing. Topics about varium/ non varium are not allowed . Heres what i see that needs rebalanceing. To improve balance would to equal the overall damage for every robot. Core balance will be also improved to set with the balanced scale if needed.

Infernal Android

150 + (Technology Bonus) + (Focus Level x 40) ~~>190dmg

Infernal Overload
Deals 85% base damage, increasing by 5% each round in battle (130% cap)~~> deals 85% base damage increases by 5% every round in battle (120% cap) to provent this core from being oped nerfing it by 10%

Assault Bot

150 + (Technology Bonus) + (Focus Level x 40)~~>190dmg

Cleanse
Reduces 65% of all debuff effects on a target

Azrael's Borg

160 + (Technology Bonus) + (Focus Level x 40)~~>190dmg

Heart Attack
Reduces 65% of all buff effects on an enemy deals 85% of damage when this is used

Baby Yeti yeti's would improve from 170~180~190dmg

160 + (Technology Bonus) + (Focus Level x 40)

Chomp!
Temporarily disables target's auxiliary and sidearm

Baby Yeti Warrior yeti's would improve from 170~180~190dmg to keep the evolution alive the yetis would work like this

170 + (Technology Bonus) + (Focus Level x 40

Chomp!
Temporarily disables target's auxiliary and sidearm deals 85% of damage when this is used

Bio Borg

160 + (Technology Bonus) + (Focus Level x 40)~~>190dmg

Thorns
Reflects 50% of melee damage back at your attacke

Blood Hawk

170 + (Technology Bonus) + (Focus Level x 40)~~>190dmg

Armor Annihilator
Destroy the target's armor for 3 turns; removes bonus defenses and prevents use of Armor Cores. deals 85% of damage when this is used.

Black Abyss Bot

170 + (Technology Bonus) + (Focus Level x 40)~~>190dmg

Necrosis
Spit acid on your enemy, lowering their defenses by an increasing amount for 3 turns. deals 85% of damage when this is used

Botanical Hazard

170 + (Technology Bonus) + (Focus Level x 40)~~>190dmg

Poison Spores
Inflicts 60% of your Robot's damage as poison over 4 turns. inflicts 55% of robots damage as poison over 4 turns. To provent this core from being oped a nerf of 5%

Electro Bunny Bot

170 + (Technology Bonus) + (Focus Level x 40) ~~>190dmg

Color Blast
Blast the enemy with pastel paint; egg missiles will rain upon the target if they strike 85% damage

Gamma Bot

170 + (Technology Bonus) + (Focus Level x 40) ~~>190dmg

Gamma Fire
Nuclear-powered assault! 85% damage gains 5% per round max 100% damage. To provent this core from being oped adding the 85%~>100% 5% per round capping at 100% would balance it out but keeping it the same overall effect.

Lionhart's Avatar

190 + (Technology Bonus) + (Focus Level x 40)

Lionhart's Roar
Grants 50% Rage to all allies

Pyro Fly

150 + (Technology Bonus) + (Focus Level x 40)~~~>190dmg

Infernal Swarm
Randomly disables one of your target's 3 highest level skills for the rest of the battle deals 85% of damage

Botanical Borg

170 + (Technology Bonus) + (Focus Level x 40)~~~>190dmg

Spore Bombardment
Launch a barrage of explosive spores. Deals 90% damage if it hits multiple targets. To provent this from being oped it will deal 85% dmg to multiple targets


< Message edited by suboto -- 9/20/2014 14:03:33 >
Epic  Post #: 1
9/20/2014 14:55:05   
Remorse
Member

Supported,

The power creep from robot promos is a issue for balance.
Epic  Post #: 2
9/20/2014 15:27:38   
Mother1
Member

Not supported.

If all robots were meant to be the same than they would have made it so their specials could be shared upon the start of omega along with doing this. Not to mention doing this would also destroy variety among bots just like Omega making all weapons the same did to destroy variety among gear.
Epic  Post #: 3
9/20/2014 15:31:20   
Remorse
Member

^ Well I guess bots with slightly more powerful effects could have say slightly lower damage.


But as it is their is huge gap between the promo bots and others,

You talk about variety, but if every new promo bot they make outperforms the next in an endless powercreep cycle then their will be no bot variety.

Here is a good video on the issue:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxszx60ZwGw

The smart game developer team that made that video call this sort of issue a "time bomb"

It also highlights how this issue can lead people to quit.


The video also highlight incomprebles, this is what the game should be focusing on in terms of core and skill creation.




< Message edited by Remorse -- 9/20/2014 15:42:05 >
Epic  Post #: 4
9/20/2014 15:41:24   
Ranloth
Banned


 I'm perfectly fine with using the new Bot for +190 damage and Black Abyss for +170 damage, because it boils down to the different ability - which again, means I'd have to tweak my build and possibly use it in a different PvP mode. I don't see the power creep affecting me in any way, because I'm getting two entirely different skills - one is an offensive debuff thus less damage (and it works even better in 2v2), and other is a defensive debuff thus more damage. Same with Botanical Hazard - although it's ineffective at my level due to many players having high HP, at which Poison is ineffective.

There is no point in making all Bots the same and re-balancing the cores to work with it, if you can have different damage ranges and have cores balanced off that. End result? Variety in damage compensated by abilities. There is no power creep, unless players look at pure damage and ignore the ability entirely. If older Bots need to be buffed, suggest so and be reasonable with it. This is exactly what was done towards the end of Delta with Primary weapons - some had more damage than the others, but compensated in having less stats & vice versa. Bots are no different.
AQ Epic  Post #: 5
9/20/2014 15:48:21   
Mother1
Member

@ remorse

There will also be no variety if we make everything the same which has already been proven with the making of omega. Before omega we had to choose what weapons would work best with what build which involved a thought process in which a form of variety was made.

However once omega came out and made everything the same that thought process went away and most went for what weapons had/has the best cores.

What is to stop the same thing from happening here if we make all robot damage base wise the same?

Do I promote them making promo's that can outperform each other? By all means no I don't. Personally I think the need to adjust the base damage accordingly to how powerful the effect is of the robot for better balance without crippling variety among bots in the process.

However doing this will just as I pointed out make users go for whatever robot has the most powerful effect due to them not being the same and that right there also cripples variety among items.
Epic  Post #: 6
9/20/2014 15:49:33   
Remorse
Member

@ Trans
So you are saying their is no power creep between the abyss bots and the currents ones, and thats fine, I can agree with that because the specials are different and can be stronger.


the time difference between these promos is not large so of coarse the powercreep would be either minor or unnoticeable.


But almost every other bot before the abyss bot would be considered underpowered in base damage because of the power creep from the new promos.


How is a bot that does 150, such as the assault bot gonna compete with that...

It just means that focus builds can't use these older robots if they wish to compete in terms of damage with focus builds with the newer robots.

And this is how it harms variety.

@ Mother

Of coarse their should be differences in robot base damage when accounting their special, but that is not the issue I think suboto is trying to point out, he is trying to point out power creep and it is pretty obvious.

What I was agreeing to was the concept of removing the power creep.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 9/20/2014 15:54:13 >
Epic  Post #: 7
9/20/2014 15:56:16   
Ranloth
Banned


 Uh... I was comparing Black Abyss with Katherax, the damage difference and ability. Please don't put words in my mouth, since I haven't mentioned any power creep vs. older Bots.

quote:

If older Bots need to be buffed, suggest so and be reasonable with it.

This section exists for a reason. I've seen very little threads even bringing up older Bots having less damage than the newer ones. Was mentioned around the Forums in general, but never as a balance issue. As long as you can justify why older Bots need a buff, to match the likes of recent +170 damage and so, feel free to create your own thread explaining it in more detail (since this one is about standardization). Things aren't always changed "just because", but perhaps because it was never an issue - in this case, Bot damage - so why change something that was okay in the first place? You mention it's not okay, and I can see why, so why not go ahead and suggest it?

By suggesting it, you will also be "enforcing" a form of standardization, whilst keeping the Bot variety in terms of damage vs. ability, just like it is now - which there isn't an issue with. You also mentioned older vs. newer Bots - perhaps the "standards" for Bot damage went up and older Bots ended up omitted due to the lack of need to change them - since no one ever brought it up as an issue either. **then again, I'm fine with IA being considerably weaker due to its special ability -- unless it was capped at 120%, then base damage could go up**
AQ Epic  Post #: 8
9/20/2014 17:50:30   
suboto
Member

Power creep is deadly currently in robots. Cores should be the main difference not dmg
Epic  Post #: 9
9/20/2014 18:42:47   
Mother1
Member

@ suboto

There also needs to be a trade off between power and effect which has been worked into the game when it comes to items with locked cores. Your suggestion of making all offensive base power the same in the attempt to stop power creep will destroy that as well.

While I agree some older robots could use a buff, however said buffs and changes to all robots need to work based on how powerful their effects are so there will be balance between the normal attack and core special.

Take the lionhart bot for example. Yes it has a high base damage however special isn't offensive based and in some cases worthless depending on the fight. So the gain and drawback work together in this case.

We need to work robots by that standard so there will always be a trade off between the two. Otherwise some bots will still remain used, others will become unused, and a few will become even more powerful due to the nature of their effects.

< Message edited by Mother1 -- 9/20/2014 18:43:53 >
Epic  Post #: 10
9/20/2014 19:23:50   
suboto
Member

I just wish i could try a 190dmg robot i feel variety of the 190dmg robot is too small and needs to be more wide range an example of a robot in dire need of 190 assault bot.
Epic  Post #: 11
9/20/2014 19:48:28   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 Not supported to equalize all their damage;

-Lionhart bots are trash. Their only redeeming factor is in 2v2 (in which case the rage gain should be nerfed if used on teammates as well), and that its base damage is abnormally high.
-Barely anyone uses yeti for a reason. Take away its redeeming factor of having the 2nd highest base damage in the game and you just killed it
-Assault bots are mainly gotten for their special: cleanse. It doesn't really need a damage buff (maybe +10, but not much more), but rather cleanse should be a bit stronger and completely remove effects like hatchling rush, mark of blood, reduce poison damage, etc...

People get bots mostly for their special cores, not for their damage (lionhart and yeti are pretty much the only exception to this). If they do change bots, they should work on the bot specials, not on the damage values.
Epic  Post #: 12
9/21/2014 1:06:52   
Remorse
Member

@trans
I didn't put any words in your mouth, read it agian.

I will make an attempt on balancing the older bots when I get home.
Epic  Post #: 13
9/21/2014 4:14:29   
kosmo
Member
 

 Exploding penguin is right on this, damage is a good way to balance different specials and it cannot be all the same.
The point is that all bots were kinda equal before the last one they released, the only power creep was with ranks+infernal android and with the abyss and expecially the hawck being a bit too useful for srnght builds.

In any case fixing broken content cannot solve the main problem with broken content being released.
Epic  Post #: 14
9/21/2014 4:17:07   
Remorse
Member

^ I have made I thread on my idea for robot balance to buff some of the older outdated robots to this new level.

http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=21819152
Epic  Post #: 15
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