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1/25/2015 11:50:46   
ED Divine Darkness
Member

I think we should start a balance thread on robots. Give me thoughts.
My Thoughts on 1v1: ( in order of strength is each category)
God Tier(really strong/OP): Abyss bot, blood hawk, kartherax
Tier 1(strong): Infernal Android, Cyber Yetis
Tier 2(balanced): yetis,botanical borgs, gamma bot, botanical hazard
tier 3(garbage): azrael borg, assault bot

It is not complete yet, feel free to give me thoughts.
No trolling please.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 1
1/25/2015 13:22:10   
Mother1
Member

You missed a few bots on your list.

The bunny bots, lionhart bots, Bio borg, and the Pyro fly TMK (To my knowledge) aren't on this list.

Also I have to disagree with the Azreal borg being garbage. While the special does do less damage then the aux, it is still free and can be used more than once.

I can also say the Kartherax bot as well as the Blood hawks aren't gods either. Try using the Hawk bot on a lower level player who have very little armor points and the special in those's area's are next to worthless Especially if you are lacking focus.

As For the Karthrax bot it is only godly if the person is a strength abuser. Against other builds I would have to disagree with this.
Epic  Post #: 2
1/25/2015 14:34:40   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


Abyss bot is good, but not the best in 1v1. Same with blood hawk. Also, botanical borgs are just bad. They offer absolutely nothing useful to most builds, especially in 1v1, and their damage isn't even amazing either.

This is how I would rank them (in order in the tiers so the first bot mentioned in a tier is better than the second bot):

God Tier:
-Pyro Fly
-Cyber Yeti
-Kartherax

High-tier:
-Abyss
-Blood Hawk
-IA

Mid-tier:
-Yetis (fully evolved)
-Botanical Hazard
-Bio Borg
-Gamma Bot
-Lionhart Bot

Low-tier:
-Azrael's Borg
-Bunny Bots
-Botanical Borg
-Assault Bot

Very short explanations for each:

Pyro fly: Hit the right skill and take advantage of it and it's gg. Most of the time, because of the way people build their skill trees, you normally have a 2/3 or even higher chance of hitting a skill that makes you win the game. The low damage is pretty hard to deal with but to trade that off with disabling an energy parasite, poison, etc... is definitely worth it.

Cyber Yeti: At first I didn't think this bot was that good but after playing against it a few times it really is pretty great. It shuts down debuffs of all sorts instantly. It forces people to use their energy drains and heals prematurely which is great when you have a poison build to punish them for doing so. If they use mark of blood or field/blood commander you can throw this out to stall for turns then just take away their energy so they can't use their coveted berzerker or static/atom smash. The uses of this bot are so vast, that when applied correctly it can absolutely destroy you opponent. Also it just does tons of damage.

Kartherax: It debuffs a ton. A lot of people have to use strength for debuffs, cores, or in many cases their energy drains. This bot also has good damage. It can shut down a lot of builds and at least have a pretty good effect on non-strength builds as well. Maybe if the current meta didn't involve tons of mindless sheeple with strength builds then this bot wouldn't be so good, but it currently is very strong.

Abyss/Blood Hawk:
This is kind of a niche on certain builds. But it does its job really well. You'll mostly find this bot very effective on classes that win by completely overwhelming their opponent with tons of damage and force their opponent to just play defensively and barely stay alive the whole game. In general, classes that do this well are ones with lifesteal effects such as blood commander merc, BM, and BH. This bot serves a pretty niche role but when used right really helps win fights.

IA:
Fills the gap of having no burst when you really need it, or if you already have burst you can just always be a threat by having the ability to nuke down 65%+ of someone's max HP should you land a crit with plasma cannon of have a high level of zerker or something else. The base damage is pretty bad but the constant threat of a huge nuke can really help you make your opponent scared of you and play into your hands.

Yetis:
Great damage, but chomp is very, very hard to use right. When used correctly it does some amazing things. It also really only works its best with classes that have intimidate.

Botanical Hazard:
This bot would be higher but it doesn't fit into the meta of all the level 1-3 field medic users running around who can easily use their heal whenever they need to. However, this bot still brings a good source of damage to 3-focus or even 2-focus builds depending on how your build is constructed. It really helps you deal damage on certain builds and can be very annoying to deal with. The cumulative damage is also through the roof. However, mark of blood and blood commander tend to counter this bot.

Bio Borg:
Use this at the right time and screw your opponents over. The damage isn't too bad either. Niche against strength builds though so it isn't useful in very many scenarios.

Gamma Bot:
Bots are really good for covering up weak spots in builds and gamma bot doesn't do this. It's just a full-out offensive bot that is hard to build against because you can choose what kind of damage type you want. This would be great for gamma bot if it had Lionhart-class damage but it doesn't.

Lionhart Bot:
All this really offers is tons of damage. After the changes so you can see rage it isn't good anymore aside from maybe in 2v2.

Azrael's Borg:
Unfortunately, this bot was cool and I would arguably say broken when it first came out, but it doesn't fit into the meta at all. People only buff in response to debuffs in general, and debuffs are weak in the first place. The damage isn't amazing either, it's just solid. This really only serves a niche purpose against people who spam blood commander. But you could just use pyro fly and shut down blood commander if you wanted to.

Bunny Bots:
Yes, these are higher than botanical borgs. Their damage isn't bad at all, and with their special utilized right you can do some stuff. The probability of doing stuff with color blast is low, but at least is has potential utility to it. Just be very smart with using it. Also this doesn't really count since it's a 1v1 tier list but these bots are amazing at NPCing against enemies without ridiculous health like lionhart. In that case of fighting against super high-HP bosses poison bots are better, but bunny borg really deals with Nightwraith and other similar bosses very well.

Botanical Borgs:
Same reasons stated for gamma bot. Except this is worse because the special is only usable once, doesn't even do bonus damage, and is the same damage type as the basic attack.

Asault Bots:
Because they're assault bots.


Epic  Post #: 3
1/25/2015 15:16:28   
shadow.bane
Member

i think that bunny bot is useful against str builds , like let's say a merc with blood commander and max berz , af course u start first 90 % of the time so just take his energy , he will have enough for blood commander , then he uses it , u apply bot special to him then he is forced to use gun ( delectable cause af course he is low on tech ) then he uses aux (which is low damage cause no support applied ) still have 1 turn he can do whatever the heck he wants but in those 3 turns you could kill him also since he's on low defenses :D

kartheraks do nothing to me to be honest ! cause my build is not based on my primary ! so it's useless against me since i use bot (630 damage) aux (560 damage) then gun (470 damage) or take energy heal or whatever xD then gg for kartherax :o

_____________________________

Bane Hallow The Last Shadow Fiend.
AQW Epic  Post #: 4
1/25/2015 17:40:32   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


You get hit by color blast. This is what happens:

-Gun
-Energy steal/recovery
-Active skill such as field medic, plasma cannon, intimidate, etc...
-Active core such as meteor shower, piston punch, generator, etc...
-Auxiliary

There are so many ways to just not strike while still dealing good damage or getting benefits from that turn that bunny bots are barely usable except in very, very specific situations.
Epic  Post #: 5
1/26/2015 6:44:46   
King Bling
Member

Exploding Penguin you're totally wrong about Botanical Borgs, these bots are one of the most useful, and strong, and since the Cyber Yeti's, its special is even more valuable since, its a direct counter to the Cyber Yeti Bot, the special gives a powerful blow that is a guaranteed hit, no deflection or block, 100% sure hit, and in 2vs2 if you use the special at rage, you can possibly hit for 400 damage each to both the opponents. Its special is very useful for countering the cyber yeti as it gives a guaranteed hit, the special has no effect on it.
Post #: 6
1/26/2015 12:55:56   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


^You don't need a counter to the cyber yeti. You just need to wait it out which isn't hard at all because the shield's duration is so short. A robot that offers no utility and doesn't even have extremely high base damage cannot possibly be as good as a bot with the ability to shut down a large variety of skills/builds.

If botanical borg did true damage that would bypass all defensive buffs then it would be another story, but no, it only deals unblockable damage that isn't even higher than the robot's regular attack.
Epic  Post #: 7
1/26/2015 15:53:43   
King Bling
Member

Sadly your ideals tell me your not a great player, if you would have seen high levels play smart with cyber yeti, you can possibly make out that the special is used at the very end or the moment when the enemy has no energy but only the rage, and at that time you cannot possibly "wait" for it to go, cause you will end up dieing xD , at those times which are very frequent if you survive, another thing that a dumb player cannot, can use the bot's special to counter cyber yeti and win. You havnt played with the bot, which is solemnly the reason that you cannot use this bot, I myself have ranked from 9 to 41 using this bot, not only me but some other people like Thylek and many, but another thing is, it depends on the style you want to opt, i.e want 50% win rate but fast wins, or 100% win rate but slow, choice is yours, I am not to blame on it.
Post #: 8
1/26/2015 19:47:09   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


First off, I bought the bot on release day. I have definitely played with the bot.

Second, if you use it on one specific build or just test it on one person, that does not warrant the bot being strong. If you can get other people to say they used it and it's as good as you think then I don't have a problem believing you.

The way I see it is this:

Botanical borg has good damage but not the best. It has a deflectable basic attack and its special is pretty much an execute thanks to it being cost-free and immune to blocks or deflects. This can be very useful on some builds, but really the need for an execute can be satisfied by many other options as well. Additionally, an executing move is not always needed unless you run builds with a very high chance of being blocked or deflected. Overall I would say this robot is not that good in general because it doesn't pose much of a threat in any way or form aside from just having high damage as do any other robot. And in that case there are robots that hit harder.

If you are relying on botanical borg to solely counter Cyber Yeti then that's cool and all, but really you shouldn't need a specifically built counter if your build is versatile and designed well. Since the shield lasts only 2 turns and requires a turn to cast, using a skill which is not affected by blocks or deflections already compensates for the use of the core. The ice shield can really only be used effectively as countermeasures when someone already has cast a debuff on you (and debuffs are not too strong because they are easily blocked by very low-cost skills) or has rage. There are so many options that you can use to make the ice shield an equal trade if not actually waste an opponent's turn because the duration of the shield just isn't long enough.

-Any caster skill that can't be blocked or deflected
-Many energy drains
-Use cores such as piston punch, generator, meteor shower, etc... to stall out the turn
-Other robot specials like Kartherax, exploding chomp, etc...

quote:

if you would have seen high levels play smart with cyber yeti, you can possibly make out that the special is used at the very end or the moment when the enemy has no energy but only the rage, and at that time you cannot possibly "wait" for it to go, cause you will end up dieing xD


You deserve to lose this fight against "good" players with cyber yeti. If you have your bot special available and they're saving it there's no reason they should be going even with you or winning until you both have low HP and energy. It might be that they're good, but the cyber yeti is not what wins them that fight. If they were using pyro fly, IA, blood hawk, etc... and they had access to their bot special that they weren't saving you would have lost either way. If you're going even with them and they're saving their bot special that means one of two things. Either cyber yeti is really strong/OP which it possibly is, or they're just better than you.
Epic  Post #: 9
1/27/2015 2:23:13   
King Bling
Member

Idk what you mean, but I have won en numerous amount of battles with that bot.
Post #: 10
1/27/2015 19:57:18   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


Then you're just a good player. You could probably win around the same amount with any bot that's about equal if not better than that one.
Epic  Post #: 11
1/27/2015 20:13:11   
The Jop
Member

I know what King Bling is talking about. Sometimes you can get past the shield, but when you don't have the energy to do an unblockable/undeflectable attack and you can't survive for 2 turns, your opponent takes the victory at the last minute.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 12
1/27/2015 22:51:08   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


There is that, but my point is if they're saving the shield while you're making full use and advantage of the fact that you can use your robot special this should rarely be the case unless your opponent is simply outplaying you or using a better/OP build. If you're going even and they have the shield available while you've been using your bot special effectively, then of course you'll be put in a bad situation.
Epic  Post #: 13
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