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RE: My Thoughts on the Ranks

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1/27/2015 19:41:08   
Lord Machaar
Member

We (Me and many players, true players, not Omega/Late delta kids) played the game for a good 6 - 3 years, we had back then, and we have now, a number of wins that are capable to make us reach rank 60 and beyond, if ranks were presented at that time, and with the huge player base, many players will have reached a good ranks. And not only a small amount players do, which leads to the necessity of unfair battles between those players and very low rank players. But all those wins went into vain, but atleast that maintained a balanced battle modes for all. For those who hadn't time to do many wins at that time didn't have this problem, they had time while playing PVP. Omega closed one gap, and expanded another one. The gap is closed is the one between F2P and P2W players, but on the other hand with the ranking system, it expanded a huge advantage gap between all players. (+) + (-) = 0. That's what basically Omega is.

If ranks weren't presented, there were many other goals players had in their disposal to achieve and spend their time on, PVPs don't gain only exp. It gain you credits, influence, both of those are a well challenging things to do in-game. No one till now have maxed out the tier achievements of the wars that have occured. (Not talking about heavy spenders, talking about players who actually play the game and feel the heat and use their brains to win a battle to help their align. to win the war.). If those two things weren't enough for some. Then a new system should've been introduced, but not ranks:

Ranks were presented to give a small number of players something to do, because they were bored. If devs felt bad for you (and those players), and wanted to give you something to play with, a toy, that's not my problem. But that toy, to be my character and my enjoyment, I don't accept that, and other players with low ranks too, that have something in-life to do. Basically what they did is, sacrificing with 90% of players' joyment, and the whole balance of the game, just to satisfy some no-lifers. Solutions are simple even now, and this can be solved, as I stated in my OP. It's madness if only a small number of players are enjoying the game on behalf of the other players. Just because they felt bored, and DEVs couldn't find a way to give them something to get busy with, they came up with a new system that gives them supreme advantage, instead of creating a flexible system to maintain the game's balance and provide something joyful for players to do to kill their boredem after reaching level cap.

As Xendran has stated in my post "Unplayable PVP":
" This game has been around for a long time.
Anything that truly matters to them has already been fixed.
Anything that hasnt been fixed by now, don't expect it to ever be. Tweaked, modified and changed a bit? Sure. Fixed? No. "

If balance really was important to devs, they would have found a way to fix it, and probably all balance problems. Once gifting was over, they came up within days with a new permanently gifting way. By accident? I believe not. Those wise words really made me think about this and see what's going on.

I, for now, still don't want to say that, but having an unbalanced PVP battle modes, is running in the favor of the devs. How? Well, every promo they will present, they can make it crazily OP, no one will ever notice, why? Because the game is already unbalanced. Before those promos came down, so why we should blame promos, tricky, no?
Another thing is, ranks will force more and more players to buy packages to try to encounter players with high ranks than they are, but this plan will fail too soon, since players will find out no matter what they buy/use/enhance, they will end up losing. And I just hope this doesn't bring the game down to its final drop down.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 1/27/2015 21:51:27 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 26
1/27/2015 21:08:14   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Once gifting was over, they came up within days with a new permanently gifting way. By accident? I believe not. Those wise words really made me think about this and see what's going on.


Wow, they did come up with a permanently new gifting way pretty fast....that's almost disappointing now that I think about it. They came up with that pretty fast yet simple suggestions like "seeing how many wins you have" still haven't been implemented. Going on months now
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 27
1/28/2015 12:02:08   
King Bling
Member

As a f4 bh rank 40, I still lose to str tlms, so your idea is not good, that will make ppl like me lose 100%
Post #: 28
1/28/2015 12:22:28   
The Jop
Member

It should just be a higher chance to go first if you have a lower rank (except after 60), not a certainty. It should just count for a little less than level difference in the formula.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 29
1/28/2015 12:35:39   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Letting lower ranks go first or have a higher chance of going first will only raise the loss % for higher ranks. That's not fair because they took the intiative to actually play the game and rank up. You guys have the right to play the game, no ones stopping you. Higher ranks also have the right to play this game. And everyone has the right to fairness. This is only whats fair.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 30
1/28/2015 12:59:20   
King Bling
Member

tell me one good bh build that can at least stand up to a str poison tlm spammer when going second, if you can I will ceratinly agree to you.
Post #: 31
1/28/2015 13:47:14   
The Jop
Member

@berserker
What? So by that logic, higher levels should go first because they put more time into the game? This is just about balance, and the person who has access to more defense and damage is not on a level playing field, which is why they should have less of a chance to go first.

_____________________________
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 32
1/28/2015 14:02:03   
Lord Machaar
Member

Basically, both of you are telling me, ranks aren't an advantage, because you can't defeat one OP build?
You never tried to use that build and see how effective it is against low ranks?
What am I gonna say IF: you are rank 40 and you can't defeat a rank 1 with that build, what am I gonna say?
WHAT IF I'm rank 1 fighting a player with 50 ranks more than me with that build? You never thought about that?
Oh no, I forgot, you only think about yourselves. If you are enjoying the game for now, screw others?

You are talking about your cases, using builds which aren't effective in-game, well, other high ranks don't, they use OP builds, and not OP builds, an enhanced VERSION of that OP build. If you don't know how to play the game, if you are a rank 40 and you can't defeat a player with rank 1, then my friend, I suggest you to start the game from 0 with an alt, to better understand it.
Or check this article in the ED wiki: http://epicduelwiki.com/w/Battle_Mechanics

If you cannot defeat a rank 1 (Because you don't know how to play). Others players with high ranks have the experience to defeat them easily.

I have the right to play and enjoy the game as much as any other player. Doesn't matter if YOU took the initiative to rank up faster or any other player.

We have spent hours and hours for years, playing the game after reaching the level cap, having ZERO advantage over players who reached level cap but spend so little time on PVP. If that's the case, then let's count the wins all players did, when ranks weren't counted, fair no?

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 1/28/2015 14:16:16 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 33
1/28/2015 14:19:35   
King Bling
Member

Meet me in game fight me once and tell me, waiting in w4 oz
Post #: 34
1/28/2015 14:20:08   
Mother1
Member

@ The Berserker killer and King Bling

Basically it is what I said before. Build advantage can make up for a level disadvantage.

The two of you have ranks advantage over those lower levels, however they have the build advantage over you which makes up for their rank disadvantage. In many cases that is all it takes for someone who has less stats than you to win.
Epic  Post #: 35
1/28/2015 14:23:40   
Lord Machaar
Member

So you are telling me, all players with low ranks use OP builds? Where is variety in that? On the other hand you are telling me all players with high ranks are using other builds than those that are OP?
What logic is that? Just answer me for that question.

You basically told me, that players with high ranks have a disadvantage of builds? I never knew that players with high ranks arn't allowed to use OP builds? Never knew that.
MQ Epic  Post #: 36
1/28/2015 14:59:59   
King Bling
Member

As I told you, People who have ranks + use OP builds + have var items = Op advantage over others
Post #: 37
1/28/2015 15:23:35   
Mother1
Member

@ Lord machaar

Sadly if you can't be diverse and win then diversity takes a back seat to winning.

In the game for most it has always been Winning = fun, and if I am not winning I am not having fun.

So while most may complain their is not diversity at the same time they would rather use a build even if it is a sheep build that is proven to give results than a build that is different but causes you to lose to said sheep builds.

Then there is the fact that with all these balance changes and new items which are used to spice up the game and increase variety most of the time serves to buff those builds with few exceptions.
Epic  Post #: 38
1/28/2015 15:30:32   
King Bling
Member

The Problem with this game is its becoming more of a strike oriented game where you play like a dumb foolish person all day and get wins if you try to be creative, for eg i tried to have fun with bh massacre and people were like haha this foolish high rank noob player using dumb builds , in 2vs2 I used to and got even depressing comments that I had to change my build immediately to f5 and again got pounded by tlms in 1vs1 then in 2vs2 I go and find that I get low levels all the time and sadly get more loses. I tried other nice builds with bh like multi with stun grenade but again lost all of em and got harsh comment on top of it. so now its basically a game where you spam certain things and get ranks and then idk spam on? xD dumb game :P
Post #: 39
1/28/2015 15:54:50   
Lord Machaar
Member

@Mother1

What you are trying to say is, fun is always related to winning in this game.

I didn't say that you don't have to lose at all, this is the hardcore slogan of Omega, nothing is perfect.

There is a thin line, about losing a decent amount of times, and losing so bad, that you can't even proceed in the game. Huge difference.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 1/28/2015 15:55:54 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 40
1/28/2015 16:17:04   
Mother1
Member

@ lord Machaar

That isn't always true. I have had some fights where I was battling my bane builds or just with a group of nice people and even if I lose I still have fun.

I can't recall all the times when I was battling and giving it my all but came up one turn short or a few HP short of winning but still enjoyed the match just because my opponent totally tested my wits and strengths of my build.

While I can agree it is little to no fun to be completely dominated by someone without the faintest chance of winning I can go out and say you can have fun even if you don't win just because you enjoyed the battle itself.
Epic  Post #: 41
1/28/2015 16:25:43   
King Bling
Member

Lets Play some 2vs2 :P
Post #: 42
1/28/2015 17:04:32   
Lord Machaar
Member

@Mother1

I do have a lot fun whether I'm winning or losing when I play fair battles. Once you meet someone that has more ranks than you, by much, then you feel how disadvantaged you are.
MQ Epic  Post #: 43
1/29/2015 8:35:34   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 The games all about winning to me. And you seem to have this crazy idea that just because my acc doesn't have a beta cheevo that I'm not from beta. I have a beta account, I've been there, my thoughts still wont change. Its a PVP, its a competition, you either stand up and fight or sit down, npc, and be boring.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 44
1/29/2015 11:52:11   
Lord Machaar
Member

I have presented logic reasons for how ranks can be a huge advantage. And believe me, if they're keeping this foolish system, believe me, it's not because of the reasons you showed, but simply because they are using this imbalance for well known purposes.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 1/29/2015 12:02:34 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 45
1/29/2015 12:11:41   
Lord Machaar
Member

They think by making new weapons, they will bring diversity to the game, I'm afraid they are just drawning the game in more and more art, while the real problems of the game are hanging there.
Sure, hire new guest artists, guest writers, guest everything, going to fix the problem, bring more people? With all those selfish high rank players, I believe not. As you sold out the PVP for them. I believe not.
MQ Epic  Post #: 46
1/29/2015 14:32:43   
Variation
Member
 

 @Lord Machaar: The problems you are experiencing aren't unique to every low ranking 40/38-39 so you know. Also your generalizations are so badly formed it makes me wonder how you can expect players and especially the developers to take you seriously. Those high ranking players have no control over whether Legendary Mode will be reconstructed or not, the developers and only them would be the ones to do any changes to Legendary Mode -- so I seriously don't see how a general attack such as "With all those selfish high rank players, I believe not." is even relevant except to serve as an ego booster.

Also another thing all high rankers or people who like Legendary Mode aren't no-lifers (which you clearly implied they were no-lifers when you said "Basically what they did is, sacrificing with 90% of players' joyment, and the whole balance of the game, just to satisfy some no-lifers."). That ignorant generalization is thrown all over the forums. Generally to simply make low rankers feel superior because some of them have some mystical life outside of EpicDuel, but who is to say some high rankers don't? I'm rank 113, I have a job, and I'm currently in college with a 3.8+ (3.86) GPA. I have a friend who has two degrees (a computer programming degree(2-year), and a 4-year management degree(Bachelors)) who is currently working on a MBA and he has a high rank also. So clearly you should really reconsider how you bring up arguments supporting your stance on Legendary Mode if all you can do is mostly bash high ranking players based on poorly constructed generalizations.

Anyways, as I was saying your case doesn't apply to all low rankers(or level 38s-39s) some of them are actually really determined to become a high rank and aren't gonna try to destroy what some players put effort for simply because their rank may not be as high as some players. I wasn't even one of the first players to level 40 however, I wasn't gonna let that fact demotivate me from playing the game and or use it as a means to bash the developers/high ranking players.

If you want people, especially the developers to take you seriously you should be much more diplomatic with your posts/responses -- especially considering nowhere near everyone feels the same way you do about Legendary Mode. People would feel much more inclined to discuss this if it wasn't full of rants and poorly constructed generalizations.
Post #: 47
1/29/2015 14:59:41   
Lord Machaar
Member

You are simply saying this because you have a high rank.
You ranked up when this system was first introduced, or very few players have had high ranks, how can I judge you then if you don't even know what I'm talking about?

And yeah for real, bring me one name of a player who enjoys his way through higher ranks. One. Single. Name.
Even with high determination, he won't have a good ratio to even proceed in the game.

So if you are come here and tell me my arguments are based on false sources, then I advise you to read them again, carefully. And think as you don't have a high rank.

And yes, when I say only no-lifers can reach high ranks. I mean it, want some math?
There are 60 ranks. Each rank requires 7.5k experience. 60 ranks x 7.5k exp = 450k experience.

Taking an average players who plays the game for 2 hours a day. He can do 50 1vs1 wins as best consideration.

Each 1vs1 win gives you 12 exp. 50 wins * 12 exp = 600 experience each day.

450000 experience / 600 experience = 750 days = 2 years.

That's taking in consideration that this player plays everyday, which is not always right.

And yeah, in your job, you sit in front of a computer, others don't.
Devs have no idea about this system, when they kept same rewards of a 1vs1 battle, even when a rank 1 defeats rank 60. They showed that, for them, ranks give 0 advantage. +40 AUX damage, +40 BOT damage, +40 Sidearm damage, +30 Def, +30 Resis, +30 primary. All that for them means nothing, 0 advantage. Therefore when a low rank player defeats a player with higher rank, it means nothing, since for them, the player with higher rank has "ZERO" advantage, what logic is that?

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 1/29/2015 15:23:49 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 48
1/29/2015 15:41:56   
Variation
Member
 

 ^Exactly what I meant, in my first response to your thread -- and your example of a no-lifer is horrible at best. Your math is wrong also, at level 40 your first rank is already unlocked meaning the required experience to hit rank 60 is 442,500 = (59*7,500), not 450,000.

So if you want to teach math, at least make sure you completely understand the system and how it works once you hit level 40.

Also, so now you're trying to imply every high ranker is a no-lifer based on your horrible example of some level 40 doing 50 wins a day with 2 hours invested each day. Which would require him 737.5 days to hit rank 60 at the start of level 40. The good news though is players can hit rank 60 way faster than that ;), which you seemed to completely disregard probably because it destroys your "no-lifer" argument.

Anyways here is some math for you, if a level 40 fought Big Tuna 100 times a day -- two cases:
If they did their daily 100 during the power hour(s) then that is 2,000 experience a day -- now we go back to the fact that at level 40 it takes 442,500 experience to reach rank 60. So that implies it will take them 221.25 days to hit rank 60. Hmm that doesn't sound like a no-lifer to me, it's pretty apparent that a person who may have taken that route isn't a no-lifer.

________________________________________________________

If they did their daily 100 npc(Big Tuna) wins without power hour(s) then you could simply multiply that 221.25 days by 2 and get that it would take them 442.5 days to reach rank 60.

Of course players who did choose those methods would have days where they miss doing their daily NPCs, but they would still rank up at a reasonable pace, without even being close to a no-lifer.

Also players don't have to farm Big Tuna who only gives 10 experience at non-ph times they could farm higher ones for more experience.

So what were you saying about only "no-lifers can reach high ranks?" because as you can see with pure mathematical evidence you can very well get high ranks without being a no-lifer.

Feel free to argue that this is a PvP game and therefore it's illogical to NPC (which don't even add to your 1v1 record anymore so I see nothing wrong with using them for free experience and credits) however, the developers did go out of their way to re-implement them so players wouldn't be forced to level/rank up in PvP. Whether players want to take advantage of them or not is solely up to their discretion. However, when they cry about losing because of having a low rank and they don't want to NPC to get a decent rank it's not the developers who are at fault. Not only because of their re-implementation of NPCs for that reason, but because of the fact low rankers can beat high rankers -- even if they're at a disadvantage. Strategy plays a much stronger chance on who will win a battle -- if it didn't then I would've lost all of those unfair 2v2 matches I've had in the past. Everyone has an excuse as to why they lose. However, that doesn't imply that every excuse is a reasonable initiative for change.

quote:

And yeah, in your job, you sit in front of a computer, others don't.

You saying that also backs up my first post in this thread. Unfortunately for you, the world doesn't run off of assumptions based on pure ignorance and for the most part it doesn't run off a "ONLY ONE WAY TO ACHIEVE SOMETHING" mentality.

Anyways, here it is again,
quote:

If you want people, especially the developers to take you seriously you should be much more diplomatic with your posts/responses -- especially considering nowhere near everyone feels the same way you do about Legendary Mode. People would feel much more inclined to discuss this if it wasn't full of rants and poorly constructed generalizations.


I wouldn't take my time to write that for nothing, and it's like that in the real world also. Very few people are going to take you serious when your rational for players who have a high rank is the assumption that they're just a "no-lifer." Which isn't correct since as I've explained there are better alternative ways for experience other than doing PvP.

< Message edited by Variation -- 1/29/2015 16:14:59 >
Post #: 49
1/29/2015 16:28:31   
Lord Machaar
Member

I started calculations with level 40, to obtain level 40 you need to get 7.5k experience, if you didn't understand that:
Never thought about why 2015, 2014, 2029, 2108 are all in third century and not second?
Once you reach level 39. And obtain your first experience you are considered as level 40. Same as minutes, 3:34, it's 4th minute not third.

Putting this apart, and considering you don't know that, and I made a mistake, 7.5k experience? for real? is that going to make a difference?

quote:

If they did their daily 100 npc(Big Tuna) wins without power hour(s) then you could simply multiply that 221.25 days by 2 and get that it would take them 442.5 days to reach rank 60.

Of course players who did choose those methods would have days where they miss doing their daily NPCs, but they would still rank up at a reasonable pace, without even being close to a no-lifer.

Also players don't have to farm Big Tuna who only gives 10 experience at non-ph times they could farm higher ones for more experience.

So what were you saying about only "no-lifers can reach high ranks?" because as you can see with pure mathematical evidence you can very well get high ranks without being a no-lifer.

Feel free to argue that this is a PvP game and therefore it's illogical to NPC (which don't even add to your 1v1 record anymore so I see nothing wrong with using them for free experience and credits) however, the developers did go out of their way to re-implement them so players wouldn't be forced to level/rank up in PvP. Whether players want to take advantage of them or not is solely up to their discretion. However, when they cry about losing because of having a low rank and they don't want to NPC to get a decent rank it's not the developers who are at fault. Not only because of their re-implementation of NPCs for that reason, but because of the fact low rankers can beat high rankers -- even if they're at a disadvantage. Strategy plays a much stronger chance on who will win a battle -- if it didn't then I would've lost all of those unfair 2v2 matches I've had in the past. Everyone has an excuse as to why they lose. However, that doesn't imply that every excuse is a reasonable initiative for change.


I adivse you to read the OP very well, as well as my replies. I replied not once and not twice, why I play this game, not to NPC like a machine, but to have fun, fun out of the Huge logo they are putting in the game's home page: Player - Vs - Player online battles. So coming each day, doing NPCs like a machine, same NPC, same move. I don't accept that. I play the game to have fun. I think my point is pretty clear.

And yes, I say it again, a player who reaches rank 60 starting from scratch in 2 - 3 months is no lifer, and a decent player isn't capable of doing that. So basically you need to have a 25% ratio for 2 years, for the sake of what? for bored players? Yeah that sounds fun. The funniest thing is when you meet a player 50 more ranks than you and tells you noob for losing. Yeah sure, the devs sold the game to no-lifers, what can I do?

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 1/29/2015 16:32:30 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 50
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