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1/31/2015 18:57:00   
Lord Machaar
Member

I want to clarify something here before getting in what I want to say.

To whoever says that ranks give 0 advantage. First we need to agree that levels give advantage. IF you don't agree with that, don't complete reading.
We know that : 1 level give you an advantage. Leveling up from 35 to 36 gives you an advantage of : 4 Stat Points and 1 Skill point.
We also know : Ranking up gives you 1 legendary point.
- 1 legendary point can be used to increase: Defense +3 Or resistance +3 Or Primary damage +3 Or AUX damage +4 Or GUN damage +4 Or BOT damage +4.
- 1 stat of leveling up: can be used too increase same things + HP + Energy.
4 stats = 4 legendary points = 1 Level.

So using simple math. 1 Level = 4 Ranks. We have 60 ranks. Devide it by 4. It gives you 15 levels. Which means. When a level 40 player Rank 1 faces a level 40 player rank 60. In other words, it's level 40 vs level 65.

The few differences between levels and ranks are, legendary points can't be used in Hp, energy. Plus you don't get skill points.
So by that DEVs are provoking what? OP Strenght builds. How?
For those who say 1 legendary point doesn't equal 1 level up stat just because legendary points can't be invested in HP/Energy. Using simple math again, Since you can't use legendary points in HP/energy, instead use leveing up stats in HP, and legendary points will cover up for you other things such as resistance, defense & weapons damage. Giving an example:
If you invested 10 legendary points in resistance it will give you +30 Resistance. You can only get +30 Resistance by spending 10 leveling up stats or more, so by that the legendary points have saved you up 10 leveling up stats which can be used whether in HP/Energy or abuse another stat with it.

When you fight a strenght player, he usually has same Def/Resistance you have. But 500 More HP, A lot more Primary and Sidearm damage. So what you are fighting is a boss. Furthermore:
So basically, when you are fighting a player with strenght build, you are fighting a hybrid build that matches between high hp, high resistance, high defense, high strenght.
Everything is high. So when you are a low ranker, and you try to focus on one thing, well just don't, because whatever you focus on, that Strenght abusers will have more than you. So basically you end up doing him 100 - 200 Damage with your 900 - 800 HP. Where the strenght player hits you from 250 to 350 damage PER strike. So basically what he can do. Sit back. Use an auto clicker, click on strike. Win. So anyone who says ranks give ZERO advantage, which even DEVs think so, why? Because rewards remained same, if a rank 1 defeats rank 60, it's like nothing. For god almighty sake, what logic is that? Do these people think?


Solution: (Too late)
In another parellel univers, if DEVs used their brain a little bit. Here is the solution. Since those no-lifers who want to do something in-game after reaching level cap. Old system could've been revamped, and it will work too.
Back then, 1 level was released each year, it sure was very slow rythem for no-lifers, but kept the game balanced for all, this system could've been revamped, and 4 levels could be released each year. So when you reach level 65, it will pass by then 6 years and some months. Instead of that players have reached it with this new system in 1 year.
Some will say for how long those levels will be released, until level 100?
First thing, if you think this is a problem, I advise you to look at ranking system doesn't it have same problem?
Plus I don't the game will survive another 6 years with all the evolving technologies and games. If ED will survive for another 5 - 6 years (at best), at least make it a good and balanced environement to play in, where in the end of the journey, players actually feel like they played a game. Not a time-money-sucking machine.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 2/1/2015 11:16:59 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 1
1/31/2015 19:25:29   
Qwerty Again
Member

Its more like level 63 since stats offer crit, deflect , block chance first strike etc. So investing in HP means sacrificing RNG products.
Post #: 2
1/31/2015 19:33:34   
Lord Machaar
Member

I agree with that.
It also can be raised to 70 or dropped to 60. Because sometimes 1 level up stat can give you: +1, +2, +3 or +4 weapon damage/resistance/defense depending on how much points you invested on that stat. But legendary points are constant. They give you +3 Weapon damage/Resistance/Defense on any level.
Also, It doesn't matter if you give up the chance to crit/block/def. Since you can do 350 - 250 damage every turn no matter what build you are using. You can sit back keep clicking strike and you will win, this without mentioning the OP skills each class has.


- To add, I forgot to mention skills. Leveling up gives you skill points, ranking up don't. Does it really matter? Skills after level 40 don't really add up anything, since you already maxed out 3 skills your build need, more skills means more energy wasted. Most famous builds on ED now count on a very small amount of skills.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 1/31/2015 19:34:03 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 3
1/31/2015 19:54:33   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 skill points also come with levels though. more skill points would take this game to new heights
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 4
1/31/2015 20:00:45   
Lord Machaar
Member

They can stop giving skill points at a certain level.
MQ Epic  Post #: 5
1/31/2015 20:02:18   
Mother1
Member

So I have to ask what you are suggesting is that the staff converts the ranks people have into levels?
Epic  Post #: 6
1/31/2015 20:07:55   
Lord Machaar
Member

As I put between the two brackets (Too late). It's too late to implement any of the things I have suggested as solution, any change, small or big will turn this system to enhancements 2.0.

What I suggest is, DEVs try to be a little nicer in the last few years (If not months) we have left together.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 1/31/2015 22:49:31 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 7
2/1/2015 2:05:40   
shadow.bane
Member

@Lord Machaar have a point here ! with ranks you fight rank 60 always ... if they convert that to level u will only fight what's 2 - 4 levels higher then u and that is more or less balanced then fighting rank 60 . so this can be called minor balance ... good idea , if that happened maybe i consider coming back . but it's just a dream just like other dreams :) .

_____________________________

Bane Hallow The Last Shadow Fiend.
AQW Epic  Post #: 8
2/1/2015 2:17:06   
Rayman
Banned


 Could it be Possible to Make the last rank 20? and Make each rank give more Stat. The Max you can get for primary dmg is +40 with 10 ranks, if we cap the rank at 20 instead of 60, it will requiere like 4-5 ranks to max up the Primary DMG part.
So being a rank 10 would be the same as being a rank 30 now or being a rank 20 would be the same as a rank 60.
But i still think its to late to do that because they would need to refund all ranks 20+ around 30 or less Legendary rank points worth of creds/var Or we can give them some other bonusses like Extra Creds % per win or some other type of stuff, Or 10 HP per Left Over rank.

This would make the game more balanced or unbalanced (Depends on how you see it) but if you want to be powerfull enought you will need rank 10+ in this new system, so its way better to npc or 2v2 until rank 10 than npc until rank 30-60.

We can also make the last rank 10 if you want to make the upgrade progress faster for everyone.

< Message edited by Rayman -- 2/1/2015 2:18:58 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 9
2/1/2015 6:53:34   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 rank 10 is so low and boring though. rank 10 took like a week to get
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 10
2/1/2015 8:39:50   
Lord Machaar
Member

^ Sure by doing 100 NPCs battle in 1 hour (CE) which is power hour with double EXP can make it that boring.
100 NPCs x (10 EXP x 3) = 3k Experience. With that you can rank up in 2 days.

@Rayman
I suggested pretty much same thing. But I think it's just too late to do any of these since it will turn it into enhancements 2.0.

- On-topic: I just want to clarify another point.
As we pointed earlier. Legendary points don't increase critical chance, deflection, block.. like level up stats. Another thing is as you rank up your weapons stats remain the same. But on the other hand:
Legendary points give "STABLE" additions, 1 legendary point will add up +3 resistance whether it's 85 Technology, 25 Technology, 125 Technology. Not like normal level up stats which will give you +1 Resistance or +3 Resistance depending on how much stats you invested on Technology.
*
Another thing is: Some builds benefit more from ranking system more than other builds.
Taking strenght builds for example at rank 60. What they focus on is: Strenght + Dexterity (Block) + High HP. And they don't focus on Critical chance and deflection as they mainly use primary.
High HP = Level up stats.
Strenght = Level up stats + Legendary points. +30
Dexterity = Level up stats + Legendary points. +30
Technology = Legendary points. +30 (Which means you save up 10 - 15 level up stats, which means about 200 HP, a low ranker will have to invest level up stats to cover the lack.)

With all this advantage, rewards remain same if a rank 1 defeats rank 60. Which means devs think that ranks, once again, give 0 advantage and for them. B
What devs see : Level 40 (rank 1) = Level 40 (Rank 60). (0 advantage) (Additional rewards for a rank 1 defeating a rank 60 is nothing according to this logic.)
What reality says : Level 40 (Rank 60) = Level 65 (Between 60 and 70 depending on build). (Additional rewards for a rank 1 defeating a rank 60 is about + 180 credits and + 143 experience. )

Bottom line, for devs. A level 65 = Level 40. R.I.P Balance. R.I.P epicduel.



< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 2/1/2015 11:04:02 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 11
2/1/2015 14:41:25   
Plasmastorm
Member

Very interesting analysis, I would love to see something, whatever it may be, done to ranks to make it more feasible for all, regardless of rank, or what their standing is within the game.
Post #: 12
2/1/2015 16:05:32   
shadow.bane
Member

@Lord Machaar

sorry to tell u this bro but epicduel is already R.I.P ( what game have max 600 players online at a time ? )

for god's sake look at dota 2 for example ! whenever i log i find 300000 - 400000 players online ! and am talking in thousands here not in hundreds -_-

means it have more online players in an hour more then a whole day in all AE games -.-

< Message edited by shadow.bane -- 2/1/2015 16:07:09 >

_____________________________

Bane Hallow The Last Shadow Fiend.
AQW Epic  Post #: 13
2/1/2015 21:28:34   
Thylek Shran
Member

quote:

So using simple math. 1 Level = 4 Ranks. We have 60 ranks. Devide it by 4. It gives you 15 levels. Which means. When a level 40 player Rank 1 faces a level 40 player rank 60. In other words, it's level 40 vs level 65.

Your math is wrong as leveling up gives more advantages than just 4 stat points and 1 skill point.
It does also increase: HP, EP, additional skill points from items,
skill power, weapon power, armor power, unlocking skills in the lower levels.
And it does decrease: Chance to go first (alot) and gaining Rage points
(alot and relatively) when meeting a lower level opponent.
Higher ranks also increase the chance to receive low level partners (alot) in 2vs2
for the high ranked character. In best case only low ranked partners.

Ranks definetly grant power but their influence is much lower than the unbalance
between the classes and stats which are particulary "primary weapon usable every
turn", skill power, skill tree layout, skill tree setup, and primary weapon requirement
for skills (some classes can make much more use of the more powerfull swords).

This does make it possible that level 39s can defeat rank 60s while it sure isnt
possible that a level 15 can defeat a level 40 (25 level difference as in 40 to 65).
The most OPed class sure is BM because of the combination of high efficient damage
skills while also having great HP and EP control that are combined with damage output
and Rage points gain, without the need to waste much or any turns for pure HP or EP
regeneration.

I would say that about 15-20 legendary ranks are as powerfull as 1 character level.
But it depends on the class, category and build as the primary weapon buff is much
stronger for strenght builds than the aux buff for support or tech/support builds.

< Message edited by Thylek Shran -- 2/1/2015 23:22:58 >

_____________________________


v.35.3 (2016-01-23) ~ beam.to/shran
DF Epic  Post #: 14
2/2/2015 2:54:21   
Remorse
Member

Completely agree,

Legendary ranks is completely broken.

And I just wish they listened to the players that warned them against the idea before they even implemented it.




Now the collateral damage is huge just because they were too blind or stubborn to remove it before much damage was done.
Epic  Post #: 15
2/2/2015 8:09:34   
Lord Machaar
Member

@Thylek Shran:

I have already stated what you just stated and clarified it and many of my replies. I didn't mention them in the OP to let it a bit small for everyone to read. Anyways here are the points I've mentioned in my replies.

quote:

- On-topic: I just want to clarify another point.
As we pointed earlier. Legendary points don't increase critical chance, deflection, block.. like level up stats. Another thing is as you rank up your weapons stats remain the same. But on the other hand:
Legendary points give "STABLE" additions, 1 legendary point will add up +3 resistance whether it's 85 Technology, 25 Technology, 125 Technology. Not like normal level up stats which will give you +1 Resistance or +3 Resistance depending on how much stats you invested on Technology.
*
Another thing is: Some builds benefit more from ranking system more than other builds.
Taking strenght builds for example at rank 60. What they focus on is: Strenght + Dexterity (Block) + High HP. And they don't focus on Critical chance and deflection as they mainly use primary.
High HP = Level up stats.
Strenght = Level up stats + Legendary points. +30
Dexterity = Level up stats + Legendary points. +30
Technology = Legendary points. +30 (Which means you save up 10 - 15 level up stats, which means about 200 HP, a low ranker will have to invest level up stats to cover the lack.)

With all this advantage, rewards remain same if a rank 1 defeats rank 60. Which means devs think that ranks, once again, give 0 advantage and for them. B
What devs see : Level 40 (rank 1) = Level 40 (Rank 60). (0 advantage) (Additional rewards for a rank 1 defeating a rank 60 is nothing according to this logic.)
What reality says : Level 40 (Rank 60) = Level 65 (Between 60 and 70 depending on build). (Additional rewards for a rank 1 defeating a rank 60 is about + 180 credits and + 143 experience. )



quote:

I agree with that.
It also can be raised to 70 or dropped to 60. Because sometimes 1 level up stat can give you: +1, +2, +3 or +4 weapon damage/resistance/defense depending on how much points you invested on that stat. But legendary points are constant. They give you +3 Weapon damage/Resistance/Defense on any level.
Also, It doesn't matter if you give up the chance to crit/block/def. Since you can do 350 - 250 damage every turn no matter what build you are using. You can sit back keep clicking strike and you will win, this without mentioning the OP skills each class has.


- To add, I forgot to mention skills. Leveling up gives you skill points, ranking up don't. Does it really matter? Skills after level 40 don't really add up anything, since you already maxed out 3 skills your build need, more skills means more energy wasted. Most famous builds on ED now count on a very small amount of skills.


To explain more my idea, why some builds benefit more from this.
- Taking for example strenght builds which work great with legendary points.
Those builds concentrate more on dexterity (Block). They are not interested in critical chance or deflection (as they use mainly their primary), nor starting first as many like TlMs raise their support just for the sake of frenzy.
That's why, you mainly invest your stat points on one stat mainly. Str gives no def block crit. So basically you focus on one stat mainly dex, and HP, as you are free to whether invest your points in str or not. And legendary points will cover up the lack of level up stats.

- Another build which is 5 focus, it's neutral, why, because simply from one part it uses all the legendary points (weapons damage + bot damage + def + resis ) unlike strenght builds. But on the other hand legendary points will just add up more def/resis to decrease the damage.

An example of a hybrid build (Tank + Str): http://puu.sh/fw615/c98a6e1030.jpg
Player is rank 60. High defense/resistance (equal to some low rank players with a 5 focus build) + str build. Combination of high winning ratio (tank) and fast wins (str).

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 2/5/2015 15:09:07 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 16
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