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RE: =ED= March 27th, 2015 - Rabbits Return!

 
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3/28/2015 10:16:29   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


@SSMYeah the lagomorphs have little impact on the main story aside from the defense grid around Delta V so there wasn't much progress I could make on the war story unfortunately but hopefully we can put this arc to rest after this event and make a new Spring arc next year! Or we could just keep the bunnies because you know Easter and bunnies
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 26
3/28/2015 11:08:39   
Lord Machaar
Member

@Vextur:

If that's the case, this is an insult frankly to all the topics in the forums criticizing the balance directly with solid arguments. And frankly, the definition of hardcore in ED is facing the game's imbalance. How much you are able to do in such in an imbalanced PVP environement. That's the question now. This called pushing on the wound of the game.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 3/28/2015 11:17:18 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 27
3/28/2015 11:26:33   
Mother1
Member

After reading the hardcore mission chain requirements, if any low level or mid level can make builds that can beat any of the NPC's listed (which some of them can) then they two can do these missions.

The slayer for example is one of those NPC who I have been with just about all my mid level alts due to his lack of energy attacks. I saw they buffed the the rabbit boss for that mission, yet they left the slayer the same? He should at least gotten one energy weapon like an energy aux for example.

< Message edited by Mother1 -- 3/28/2015 11:27:30 >
Epic  Post #: 28
3/28/2015 19:17:54   
Squrwogrona
Member

So did over 100 1v1 wins today and well, dunno really why, guess that 200 win counter was the only thing that kept me going.

Was focus a while, rng owned me, then was str, rng owned me, but at least I lost with a satisfaction that opponent needed 150 crits and blocks, so whatever;)

Tinkered around with dex, with 40 I got almost never blocked, with 50 all the time, so I settled for 60.

Tinkered with hp, now I got 1337, bcs it has swag.

Going to sleep now, cya tomorrow.
Epic  Post #: 29
3/28/2015 21:27:53   
overdead
Member

The mission is too insane. I just finished the 200 kills and next are 400 and 600. Will definitely wait for the war before i do the missions. And it sucks cuz you'd miss a couple of dailies just to finish those.

For Ranloth (I'm not sure but are you Trans?), I think the 1200 kills is overkill. If it were up to me, I'd change the 600 to 400 and the 400 to 300. Or at least give a high credit reward after that kind of difficulty (if you're still going to release a similar mission in the future).

AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 30
3/28/2015 21:59:31   
Ranloth
Banned


About Credit rewards - we can't set them too high. Old Yeti Missions gave you 4K Credits for 300 PvP wins (13.33 per win), and this gives 7.5K for 200 PvP (37.5 per win), which is almost triple as much.
Furthermore, it's only this one Mission that rewards Credits - apart from the first one - whilst rest have exclusive items, which also have a sellback of 5K Credits each, IIRC. But I don't think selling them will be wise, since there won't ever be a way to get them back - and if we wanted players to just sell these rewards, we'd just reward them pure Credits instead.

The Missions are meant to take a while. After all, they are aimed at the most active players since they play a lot more, and will finish them faster. Casual players will sacrifice the ability to undertake any other Mission for a while, but that's the trade-off. Event Missions for casual players, and hardcore for... hardcore players. I had an option of spreading them out - so more Missions in the chain, and less steep requirements - but most of them would end up having a bunch of Credit rewards, instead of going for exclusive items for each Mission.
For a hardcore player, a total of 1,200 wins should take a couple of days at most - assuming 1v1. The whole chain should he completed by some dedicated players by next weekend. AQW has quests which require a lot of farming - a lot more than this chain - and reward you with exclusive items. This is the same concept here.
AQ Epic  Post #: 31
3/28/2015 22:01:50   
Mother1
Member

@ Overdead

the mission chain was designed to be for "hardcore players" since there have been several players who complained the mission chains where "too easy" or the other "hard" mission chains were "annoying" at best.

The only thing that ever came this close was the old yeti trainer missions, but even with those all you needed was a combined 800 wins for the 4 PVP missions (100 for the baby and dark yeti missions and 300 for the omega baby yeti and omega dark yeti missions) this here chain is basically that plus 400 more wins.

Add the fact that balance is different between back then and now and you got a hardcore chain right there. I doubt I will finish this chain anytime soon.
Epic  Post #: 32
3/29/2015 0:44:00   
Elite Tuga
Member

Hi all, I love the new missions, especially those that give new rewarding achievements, it's what entices me to come back to the game from time to time. I want to get myself the 'Red Star' one day but I am far away from it (4 Blue Stars, currently).

_____________________________

Epic  Post #: 33
3/29/2015 5:06:14   
overdead
Member

Oh I wasn't aware of the old yeti mission. I guess that's the standard here at epicduel (haven't played in a year so please forgive

Actually, my only qualm was that I felt that the reward was not commensurate to the time spent on the missions. But since you both, (mother and ranloth) said that the old yeti one was far worse, I guess this is better.

I don't mind hardcore missions actually. In fact, I don't mind making it more tedious IF the rewards are totally worth it (a weapon with a core, or just a core, or just a vehicle, etc.).

Say, 1500 kills for a bike, with no other method to acquire said bike, I'd totally dig that. Yep, exclusivity of in-game items (even with no special effect, just aesthetics) is an AE (or AE players) trademark. :p
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 34
3/29/2015 7:28:10   
Lord Machaar
Member

quote:

a total of 1,200 wins should take a couple of days at most.


Hmm, 2 days? 600 wins each day? that's something.

Usually hardcore missions in AQW are linked with farming, on the other hand, hardcore missiosna are linked with PVP.
Sadly, there isn't something to "complain" about in AQW since farming is perfectly balanced, each player has the same chance as another player, so it goes down to a matter of time, but in ED's case, PVP is imbalanced, therefore, difficulty of these missions are different from one player to another. So I think it's not wise to compare AQW's hardcore missions with ED's hardcore missions. Once again if you think that hardcore = imbalanced, then that's another topic.
MQ Epic  Post #: 35
3/29/2015 8:30:53   
Ranloth
Banned


Hardcore means time consuming - regardless of the game, and its balance; the concept stays the same.
PvP is imbalanced, I get it, but I write Missions and not balance things - and there was a demand for these Missions, and there are people who don't mind the balance. If you don't like them, don't do them and focus on easy Missions.

If players like the concept, I will continue writing these Missions regardless of the balance, because the game has never been balanced, and holding back content will only result in some players possibly leaving. Lack of balance does the same? I give players content to play through, not balance the game.
It's not like the Missions are going anywhere, so if you don't want to play them due to the imbalanced PvP, just wait for the game to be balanced. If that never happens, well, I only write - not balance. You aren't getting anything that affects PvP out of these Missions, so whether you do them or not, you just miss out on a couple of items and some Credits.
AQ Epic  Post #: 36
3/29/2015 8:41:56   
romanu
Member

I think the focus should be on balance.

Legendary ranks are worse then enhancements . When most battles you get someone with at least 50 more legendary ranks it's hard to get the 1200 wins for the missions.

And the fact that now you can make strength build with no real weakness. Can have high health, high strength and high defense at the same time.


At least before Strength builds had low defense.


The game said something about tournaments, new battle modes like 7 years ago, I still see same stuff.

< Message edited by romanu -- 3/29/2015 9:11:46 >
Post #: 37
3/29/2015 8:59:50   
Lord Machaar
Member

@Romanu
Amen, Amen.
That's what I have been saying for the last 3 months, strenght builds now have no weaknesses starting from rank 30, you basically can have max defense and resistence and primary damage, without caring about anything else, because finally you will just increase you dex and: strike strike strike strike.
Sadly nothing happened, I even went down to say that's okay, it's imbalanced, that's alright, you know what, why don't you increase rewards? same thing, no response.

@Ranloth
Correct me if I'm wrong but you decide the tasks? You write missions but you also put what players have to with those missions. Let me tell you something some players are already refusing to do this mission due to the huge amount of PVP wins required in such an imbalanced PVP environement, sure you are not required to balance the game, but you also need to see how is the game doing in terms of balance, unless, once again, hardcore for you is imbalanced, that's another time, a whole another topic, race a car with a bicycle, that's something.
We all like the concept, "Hardcore" missions but it all go down to how you are bringing this concept down to the reality, I'm sure will wait to see if there are some balance changes going on, but if it's not the case, and another X player, has low rank for example, has time, wants to do these missions, let me tell you something, these missions are going to be directed for only a group of players only, and you don't have the right to compare AQW to ED, since AQW farming missions are directed to all palyers, there is a difference. Hardcore in AQW sure means time consuming, Hardcore in ED means time consuming + imbalance in some levels/ranks. The fact that some players in some ranges have the ability to use different builds will control how fast they will finish the mission, the fact that some players in some ranges are linked to using super slow builds in order to maintain a good winning ratio, sure control how fast you can finish the missions.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 3/29/2015 9:16:33 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 38
3/29/2015 11:20:47   
overdead
Member

I'm still at lvl 34 and I can already feel the difficulty in levelling up especially when i encounter lvl 38s. So far, I think I can manage the 1200 kills over the next three weeks. But I know, once i hit 35 and 36, I'm toast.

I just have one quick question though. Why were "ranks" implemented in the level 40 instead of making the level go up (so that a rank 1 can't encounter a rank 40; instead, a 40 can encounter only 36-44)?
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 39
3/29/2015 11:34:01   
EDFrost96
Member

@Overdead you're not toast, you can't fight level 40's till you are Level 38 yourself
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 40
3/29/2015 12:01:23   
Lord Machaar
Member

quote:

I just have one quick question though. Why were "ranks" implemented in the level 40 instead of making the level go up (so that a rank 1 can't encounter a rank 40; instead, a 40 can encounter only 36-44)?


Frankly you can already see that the reason behind making a ranking system which is "Giving no-lifers something to play with once they reach level cap" is long gone. Do you think it is possible to add more ranks? Atleast levels were "add"-able since they were balanced, but adding more ranks is impossible, since they are not balanced, and the only way to add more ranks is to let a rank 120 face rank 1 pretending that, once again, rank 120 player has 0 advantage.
Ranks can't obey the same rules levels have, and here is why: In the case of levels, a player with level X can't face a player with level X+5 or X-5, that's why you can always higher the level cap without worrying about imbalance or isolating high levels player since in the end many players will follow up, in the case of ranks, this isn't possible, since for example if we want to add more 60 ranks making them 120 ranks, and unlike levels, less and less players will reach these ranks, meaning that if you want to add more ranks, you need to make rank ranges, e.g, a player with rank X, can't face a player with rank X+60 or X-60, but is it possible? It's not, because when you reach rank 120 for example, you will have to face players lower than you by 60 ranks only, meaning you will face players with rank 60+, but are there enough player with these ranks? ofcourse not, and therefore this means the isolation of high rank players, generally 80+

The only solution to add more ranks it is to acknowledge that ranks give "Advantage" from ground up, same as levels do, for example a player with less ranks has more chances to go first, more rewards, and etc... but sadly ranks aren't being considered as an advtange, therefore adding 60 more ranks, means that it's totally normal for a rank 1 to face a rank 120 according to the logic devs are working with right now.

So to conclude, I hope no-lifers are happy because they brought the game to its dead end with their death wish:
- No more ranks = Nothing to do when you reach rank 60, I mean forever since it's impossible to add more ranks, atleast in levels case, we were dying for new levels, and the excitement of it.
- Imbalance. Which 90% of players other than these no-lifers will face in their way to rank up.
- Unlike levels again, in the end, when you have 60 ranks, you will end up using all these 60 legendary points in well-defined places, but in the case of levels, the more you level up, the more possibilities you have to invest your points in, even after reaching 100 levels, you will find yourself with endless possibilities to spend your level up skills and stats on, but in the case of ranks, you will end up spending them on 6 things, sidearm/primary/aux/bot damage and defense resistance. Meaning all players with rank 60 will end up doing the same thing with these 60 legendary points, but on the other hand it's not the same thing in terms of levels.
- And finally, unlike leveling up system, players will find difficulties ranking up knowing that they will face a player with 60 ranks more than them, with totally no more rewards or chances to go first, like leveling up something gives, meaning that if you are a new player wanting to start the game, you will find it too late to rank up in such a PVP environement dominated by no-lifers, but as you can see in the case of leveling up system, and down from level 38, any player can start any day without fearing that it's too late.

Unless ofcourse devs decide to give their no-lifers another 60 ranks without acknowledging they give advtange. That's the last option they have to entertain their "No-lifers".
And kids, you can see how wishes turn into nightmares, sadly not just for you, but for those who around you to. And a little side not for @Ranloth, the concept of "ranking system" is fabulous, giving players something to do after they reach level cap, but how they realized this concept in reality is totally different, but as you know, after 6 years, we are still facing the outcomes of childish acts, dreams of individuals who can't even plan for long term outcomes of such a system, for individuals who frankly never played the game.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 3/29/2015 12:33:52 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 41
3/29/2015 12:21:36   
dfo99
Member
 

those missions delayed to complete is not hard, anybody can to it, a true "hard" mission could be made 20 1v1 kills in 1 hour (1 kill per 3mins with 100% win rate), a clock could start after you join in the first 1v1, then only real hardcore/high skilled players could complete :D, myself did it only few times :D (but i register the time only few times too :/)
Post #: 42
3/29/2015 12:25:26   
Lord Machaar
Member

The task itself is not hardcore, doing 600 PVP wins, hell, I do pvps each day, just in a slower rate, but the hardcore thing about this is to force you to play in imbalanced PVP environement, first by:
- playing 1vs1.
- facing higher ranks.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 3/29/2015 18:53:00 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 43
3/29/2015 13:38:18   
Mother1
Member

LOL just did the math and if one was to 2 vs 2 the entire hardcore mission chain without getting a single loss, boosting, or even with power hour you can rank up 3 times grantee and this is without losses or any other factors. This means with these additives you can almost granteed to rank up 4+ times before the mission chain is done.

Epic  Post #: 44
3/29/2015 14:32:50   
Squrwogrona
Member

Well I did today over 100 1v1 battles and 81x big tuna till 15 eggs dropped. Sad to say that I was bored less by grinding Tuna than by playing PvP.

< Message edited by Squrwogrona -- 3/29/2015 14:33:13 >
Epic  Post #: 45
3/29/2015 14:54:01   
Lord Machaar
Member

It would be great if the task is like the following, instead of forcing players to do 1vs1 battle mode, why not doing the following thing:
- 200 1vs1 wins &/Or 100 2vs2 wins . (Juggernaut, just don't think about it).

And by &/Or I mean that if for example you can whether do 2vs2 battles or 1vs1 battles or mix them both, for example 100 1vs1 wins and 50 2vs2 wins.

- 400 1vs1 wins &/Or 200 2vs2 wins.
- 600 1vs1 wins &/Or 300 2vs2 wins.

I think this way players can complete the mission with the battle mode they wish, sure they can complete the mission now with 2vs2 battle mode, and by forced, I don't mean literally "forced", but 600 2vs2 wins will take ages compared to 1vs1 battle mode. Looking at all-time leader boards explains also why.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 3/29/2015 15:00:36 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 46
3/29/2015 18:49:27   
Vextur
Member

Balancing the game and then putting these missions up DURING the war would be a right way to go.
Forcing players to play enormous number of wins in this unbalanced game and also not getting influence for your hard work can only make you not wanting to play even more.
Don't get me wrong, i like that writers did listen but the balance and dev team didn't do their job. If they all combined their ideas and content we would get much better update (like i said in first sentence)
Looking forward to part 2 and big announcement because technically nothing changed other than now the mission is counting your wins
AQW Epic  Post #: 47
3/29/2015 18:52:17   
Lord Machaar
Member

quote:

nothing changed other than now the mission is counting your wins


Thank you, been looking for that sentence.
MQ Epic  Post #: 48
3/29/2015 20:35:44   
overdead
Member

I really wish this release coincided with the war. Those kills in the mission could easily placed you on the influence tier with the highest rewards. :/

Or were they preventing players from hitting two birds with one stone?
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 49
3/29/2015 23:39:37   
dfo99
Member
 

quote:

and also not getting influence for your hard work


that is why i ask informations of why the war get more 500 hours to begin, many players will play hard during the war cooldown. sad..

< Message edited by dfo99 -- 3/29/2015 23:42:53 >
Post #: 50
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