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RE: =OS= Card Mechanics/Combos Discussion

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3/28/2015 10:39:45   
Axel459
The Void Calls


 Well TFP you called Pummels energy and dmg being 6 energy for 700 dmg and it's a normal attack card which would have been good for the other version of Chaotic Flux. The current version however is kind of unbalanced if it's the Legendary only card for chaos and is limited to one per deck it probably isn't that bad but being able to use any card for free is still really strong. We'll have to see with release of other chaos characters.

On to another chaos card that seems pretty unbalanced Regen for 3 energy healing 400 per turn for 4 turns, it completely counters DoTs like Shadow elements Poison card for half the energy cost and almost negates the dmg of Neutral elements Corruption for 1/3 of its cost. Compared to Water elements Healing Spring which only heals 400 per turn for 2 turns at 5 energy it's extremely powerful it also heals better than Light elements Greater Heal in the long run; setting Regen's cost to 4 or 5 energy wouldn't be a reasonable nerf even 6 energy would still be reasonable and would still have it as a really amazing healing card. Just currently it's very strong for its cost and if it were to end up in CC being able to use 5 in one turn would be insane healing 2k per turn and in total 8k after the 4 turns are over for a simple 15 energy.

Chaos is proving to be a very exciting element so far and I can't wait to see what other cards it gets, from the previews we got of the cards we still don't have Chaos Beam in game which I'm sure has another powerful effect. Looking forward to all of it and I'm very happy we have this new element in game.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 276
3/28/2015 12:47:20   
shadex
Member

Regen could cost 8 energy and still match every powerful healing spell in the game. I think it needs to be fairly costly as well. Chaos already has incredibly efficient offense, it doesn't need a rediculously efficient healing spell as well.
AQ  Post #: 277
3/28/2015 13:21:17   
Elite Tuga
Member

I agree with Axel on the above. Yesterday I worked out that if 'Regen' was from 3 to 7 energy it would still be better than 'Greater Heal' in the long run.

Work-out:

Greater Heal: 5 energy for 1000. Halving the current cost & gain of the card & adding it up on top = 7.5 energy for 1500 heal (equates to 200 health for 1 energy).
Regen: 3 energy for 1200 (in 4 turns) is insane that even if it were +5 energy from the 3 = 8 energy with 1600 health (equates to 100 health more at the price of half an energy).

Solution to balance 'Regen' is if it was 8 energy cost it would be perfectly awesome as it would still be a good card to use for the Chaos element. Who said it had to be better than Greater Heal?... If that card cost 9 energy it would be still reasonable & one of the top cards.

Chaotic Flux is also overpowered as it works on spell cards (for free) regardless of element even tho it only states that it's to reduces energy to 0 on any attack card, intentional or bug?... Whatever the answer is it will always add up to 'overpowered'.

Solution to balancing 'Chaotic Flux' has two simple and yet awesome options:

A: Chaotic Flux in order to continue having such great power it should be 'Custom card' un-obtainable! (Just like Sacrifice, Greater Heal or Energy cards for other elements).

Or

B: Chaotic Flux needs to turn a card to 0 energy 'ONLY' for Attacks Or Spells.. NOT both, to balance it out more among other elements.

Chaos Spikes is awesome, that card does 6 energy for 1000 (166.6 Dmg per 1 Energy) Spell damage, that's a special card way better (by 41.6 DMG per energy) than the 'ShadowFire' (8 for 1000= 125 Dmg per 1 Energy). It just needs A BUG fix as Drakath gets an error animation bug over his head when card is used. (Like Axel said before).

I hope OS Staff look into it sometime real soon, it shouldn't be difficult to resolve as the hardest is already out the way. Apart from that every-things JUST GREAT!
Epic  Post #: 278
3/28/2015 13:47:39   
Vestrova
Member

i think it should have the same effect as it does now, that is to say it works on everything. but it should maybe carry a detrimental health effect, like sacrifice. so it makes yur card free, but you lose 400 or 500 health

this could also be thematically appropriate, because chaos clearly caused some health issues with it's victims in aqw

< Message edited by Vestrova -- 3/28/2015 13:48:31 >
DF AQW  Post #: 279
3/28/2015 14:23:22   
The Jop
Member

Chaos is just directly better than other elements. Everyone's already talked about Regen so I don't need to say much; 1600 health for 3 energy is insane. Chaos Spikes does the same damage as Fireball/Shadowfire for 2 less energy, Reflection is a counterattack that's 1 less energy, and the 500 attacks only cost 3 energy. I guess they tried to balance it out by making 200 attacks cost 1 more energy and giving chaos pummel which is like holy strike for one more energy, but if they just make a deck without those cards it's just the best parts of most elements for less energy. Even with those cards it's extremely powerful.

I wish they had kept the theme of randomness so chaos could be very good or very bad depending on your luck. Instead it's just better than other elements which is fun , but unbalanced.

< Message edited by The Jop -- 3/28/2015 14:36:42 >

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AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 280
3/28/2015 15:53:49   
Gorillo Titan
Member

@the jop nope no wants random anymore chaos is awesome.

Renew being a good card makes perfect sense since chaos characters can regenerate.

The addition of chaos flux now allows use to do unqiue things like make a fire ice character who has freeze.
Post #: 281
3/28/2015 17:35:31   
Ninjaty
Member

Drakath has been described as having god-like powers by AE and is a character that even Nulgath wouldn't stand a chance against, so it makes sense for him to be incredibly powerful. Drakath is nothing like your ordinary paladin or berserker, and his power reflects that.

He is very much possible to beat and other characters are still good on their own fields. Sure, Drakath can use cards like Retribution and Ice Orb, but he requires a specific card in order to do so. If people CC a lot of other elemental cards onto him, more likely than not, most of them will always end up being dead draws until another Chaotic Flux comes around, meaning they'd block other potentially critical resources when they're needed.

Chaos in AQW is a force that other elements greatly struggle with, and since Drakath and the Chaos cards are clearly taken from AQW, it makes sense that the same holds true for both of them here as well. A character that is very difficult to beat no matter what you use, and who is able to counter and utilize whatever element he chooses. It seems he and Chaos are everything they should be.

If anything, the only thing I can see that could be toned down would be Regen. Simply removing one from the deck easily solves it in my opinion, as that at least prevents two from being active at the same time, in most cases.


As I see it, he and Chaos aren't game breaking, but rather game changing. He has brought Chaos to OS in a manner that changes the entire playing field, just like he did with AQW, making him very faithful to his original Chaos Champion incarnation.


< Message edited by Ninjaty -- 3/28/2015 17:37:39 >
Post #: 282
3/28/2015 18:58:45   
shadex
Member

Regen Is most definitely game breaking. The only card that even comes close to its efficiency is another defensive card with WAY more counterplay and difficulty to use. *IRONHIDE* There is no other deck currently in the game that can break a drakath. His offenses combined with those
ridiculous regens are impossible to overcome. The only deck I could imagine winning against him is Cyber void or something else that can get a lucky maxxed power super charged combo early. But I reaaaaaally love chaotic flux. I hope it either sticks as a 1 card deck wonder or is cc-able
for some super fun combos.
AQ  Post #: 283
3/28/2015 21:12:34   
The Jop
Member

@Ninjaty
That works when you're writing a story with Drakath in it or something, but not when he's a playable character in a PvP game.

Balance is pretty crucial here.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 284
3/28/2015 21:40:45   
The Finnish Phoenix
Member

I think Flux is okay as a single-copy max energy boost card like Neutralize, but Regen definitely could use a significant nerf.

quote:


Chaos is proving to be a very exciting element so far and I can't wait to see what other cards it gets, from the previews we got of the cards we still don't have Chaos Beam in game which I'm sure has another powerful effect. Looking forward to all of it and I'm very happy we have this new element in game.


I believe Chaos Beam became Chaos Spikes, it appears to have the same written effect.

AQ DF MQ  Post #: 285
3/29/2015 0:07:48   
Vertigo Beast
Member

@The Jop

I agree with you on the more random idea, but Im pretty sure Nulgath said a while back that the random attacks were proving hard to code. Personally I think it would've been easy to tie in everyone's own random luck by making the deck very large, and keeping the normal proportion of cards but giving chances for very very good hands and for very very bad ones as theres just so many cards in your deck that you wouldn't know what to expect.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 286
3/29/2015 0:16:39   
Elite Tuga
Member

Actually, i'm starting to have second thoughts too, Chaotic Flux is a very strong card, then again it's just as good as a Neutralise or Energise but just in a different style of play. We can't take that from Chaos this is what Chaos is all about.. They deserve a card like 'Chaotic Flux' to be able to do any move they please, regardless of element. That's a Chaos trait & we should respect it, completely!

As 'TFP' mentioned above, the only thing that really needs a nerf is that 'Regen' at least making it around 7 energy cost would be good (as one can only do 2 of them at once instead of 5) to avoid spamming & endless battles (which is bad especially for the future Chaos Tourney).

P S: I do hope Staff really do read this feedback Lol.

< Message edited by Elite Tuga -- 3/29/2015 0:18:46 >
Epic  Post #: 287
3/29/2015 2:28:21   
Ninjaty
Member

@above: I completely agree that Chaos deserves the Chaotic Flux as it is, because that's what their actual chaos is all about. Chaos is not random, it is structured, but without knowing the structure it will seem random. With the ability to use any CC they please, you cannot predict their cards with any sort of certainty, unless you can get into the mind of the particular player. So it will seem random, but is in fact structured based on the individual's preference.

quote:

That works when you're writing a story with Drakath in it or something, but not when he's a playable character in a PvP game.

Balance is pretty crucial here.

Anything can be balanced, it's just a matter of how. You could give a player a card that says "You win", and still find a way to balance it. Maybe it would need some insanely high cost? Maybe some incredibly specific activation circumstances? Maybe it would have absolutely no cost or activation requirements, and instead be balanced by how it's obtained? There are many ways to go about it.

In this case, I still only believe the Regen to be an issue. All the other cards are very managable, but the insane healing qualities of two Regen as they stand now, makes it very difficult to kill Drakath, if the player has any understanding of how to use him. It's still possible to beat him, but one needs to plan ahead specifically for that encounter. I had to at least, but maybe that's because I never considered myself too good at PvP.

Post #: 288
3/29/2015 2:39:28   
megakyle777
Member

Hell, I don't even think the Regen is too OP (Though it might need a bit of a higher cost), the major issue is that he has two of them. I mean think about it: if you get one, you recover 400 health per turn. Not a big issue, most chars can hit harder then that with a halfway decent hand, even taking into account the turn to restock your hand. But if you get 2, you can recover almost as much health as Greater Heal for 2-4 turns depending on if you get them in the same or next hand, and when You are healing 800 per turn it's impossible to do that kind of damage and eve if you do most of it will be healed back next turn.
DF  Post #: 289
3/29/2015 8:41:19   
Gorillo Titan
Member

The lack of a charge card makes a big difference in the chaos element I think chaos flux should remain since it's a special card that only chaos has. Renew should be either raised up a little or CC limited it's going to be a pretty good card once we get some horrible chaos characters in the long run though so maybe have it in CC do to that if any raise it to 5 or 6 energy though.


Surprised they didn't decide to make the shield cards the same cost 4 or 5 for shield and defense though.



Enough people have said stuff so more than likely they will edit drakath or the chaos element cards are gonna be weird if Nulgath doesn't edit them to show there real values though.
Post #: 290
3/29/2015 10:51:11   
The Jop
Member

@megakyle
Of course regen is overpowered, it's 533.33 points of healing for each point of energy. The next most powerful healing card is Greater Heal, which is 200 points of healing for each point of energy.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 291
3/29/2015 11:26:48   
Gorillo Titan
Member

Well the negative of renew is depending on when you use it the enemy will attack you twice before you can get 1200 health back limit it so greater heal has the advantage of being twice in a deck or change it to 200 per turn for 8 turns which at most is 400 energy per turn. Give water a card called healing rain with the same effect maybe.

I like chaos flux but it look like it will a master to legendary only card so that limits its OPness but I do have one problem the free drakath needs to be pretty strong to make up for the regular ones deck I would feel pretty bad if free players missed out on this.

Talking last night I got an idea for a card than im gonna make then post in the art forum when I get it will be an exclsuive card though .

< Message edited by Gorillo Titan -- 3/29/2015 11:29:08 >
Post #: 292
3/29/2015 11:51:39   
The Jop
Member

Greater Heal and Healing Spring both take 2 turns to heal their full amount; even then Regen has healed the same amount as healing spring for 2 less energy, and it has 800 health to go.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 293
3/29/2015 12:05:56   
Gorillo Titan
Member

Water sucks though it shouldn't be used to compare to anything and we can all agree that water was already a bad element no strong attack card and the worse 10 energy charge card
Post #: 294
3/29/2015 12:17:38   
The Jop
Member

They should fix that then, because each element should have its own strength. Currently, water is the worst at everything: attacking, healing, charging.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 295
3/29/2015 12:23:59   
Gorillo Titan
Member

Water needs a card that can heal and do pretty good damage. Refresh sucks, powerflow sucks can't use it back to back like you want and it's two heal cards aren't that good give a strong dot like tsunami that takes a few turn to hit 12 energy do 2000 damage after 3 or 5 turns.

And nerf refresh to heal more since you need two cards for it to work it should be enough to make up for that 3 energy for 700 health and it requires you to have a shield and refresh so it's not broken.

< Message edited by Gorillo Titan -- 3/30/2015 9:02:44 >
Post #: 296
3/29/2015 15:20:03   
Vertigo Beast
Member

Water should get a rejuvenating defense card. Like a shield that will repair itself if you take too long to remove it. That + a DoT like Tsunami mentioned by Gorillo would actually be a neat combo.

Would make sense for the rejuvenating shield to use the same slot as Iron Hide (or maybe a new slot) on the little shield counter below each characters name.

< Message edited by Vertigo Beast -- 3/29/2015 15:21:20 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 297
3/30/2015 0:36:56   
R.chime
Member

they need to introduce alternative costs on charge cards, such as but not limited to,(using water charge card as an example), discard 2 cards or 1 spell card to charge 10 water energy,(energize), discard 2 cards or 1 attack card to charge 10 energy, they could also do this for future charge cards so that it becomes a matter of which cost works better with the situation, in these cases, it'd be nice if they made chaotic flux count as both an attack and a spell for only the instance of discarding, so that you could discard it to fulfill the 1 card discard to get 10 energy
Post #: 298
3/30/2015 2:00:21   
Blackshock
Member

water should have a card that regenerates both energy and hp in one card
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 299
3/30/2015 9:13:22   
Gorillo Titan
Member

I think I like chaos flux so much do to the flex ability of its use and its not even that OP since you have to use it with the card you want which is one of the things it lacks vs the other charge cards which you can just discard and have the energy as long as you want.





I just found a new glitch with chaos flux if you use it then decided not to use and try using the card it was paired with the card will not activate but will still be destroyed.




Since all elements are out its just a matter of time before stats and elemental resistance get added which has me wondering will we pick the stats or are they already set in stone? cause I could easily mess up a rare characters stats then he just be terrible and if that's the case how about a stat that lets you start with more energy at the beginning of a fight?


Also can we get a energy card for dwakel legendary form called plasma beam a 1200 9 spell card limited to mechanical energy character. That destroys all of the enemy shield when used.

< Message edited by Gorillo Titan -- 3/30/2015 15:42:11 >
Post #: 300
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