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Venom Strike weapon requirement

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6/27/2015 23:18:00   
Greed Redemption
Member

There should be no weapon requirement for venom strike so I can use poison with a f5 sword build on my bounty hunter.

< Message edited by Greed Redemption -- 6/27/2015 23:45:14 >
Epic  Post #: 1
6/28/2015 0:14:57   
Stonehawk
Member

They won't change a skill requirement just because you want to make a build... The animation of venom strike is impossible with a sword, and they already made it stronger and lower costs because of its weapon requirement. It's already good.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 2
6/28/2015 0:20:12   
Greed Redemption
Member

I can't agree with that there, They can change the animation, It's not that hard to animate if you know what you're doing, but if you're lazy then yeah I guess it's impossible to make one for sword and keep the animation for claws,but if you're so sure it's already good, I'll give it a try with claws.
Epic  Post #: 3
6/28/2015 3:32:55   
King Bling
Member

Instead of removing the weapon requirement, why not remove the tech requirement.
Post #: 4
6/28/2015 9:10:04   
Stonehawk
Member

Not sure they would agree. Anyway, those requirements doesn't harm that much. It's just to prevent player from ignoring certain stats completely to make some kinds of builds that most of the players doesn't like because they have little or no counter-attacks.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 5
6/28/2015 9:26:04   
Darkwing
Member

Can't agree. We need more reasons to use class weapons, not less. If anything , I think even TLM should get class weapon requirement for toxic grenade.
Post #: 6
6/28/2015 11:33:23   
Stonehawk
Member

I agree with Darkwing, although can't imagine an animation for a club poison. Anyway, removing weapon requirements for all energy controlling skills and adding it for some important skills (but not necessary skills, like energy controlling) is a good way for balancing without making it impossible for some classes.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 7
6/28/2015 12:28:32   
Mother1
Member

@ Stonehawk

On the topic of that TLM unlike the other classes only has 2 moves that requires a club where as the others have at least 3. If they were to do as you said and removed the club requirement from Atom smasher (Energy controlling move) Why would anyone use a club after this?

The only drawback to using a sword would be gone and there would be no reason for anyone to use a club if they are a Tactical merc.

At least with all the other classes at least 1 important move has a weapon requirement.
Epic  Post #: 8
6/28/2015 15:32:59   
Stonehawk
Member

@Mother1

quote:

Anyway, removing weapon requirements for all energy controlling skills and adding it for some important skills (but not necessary skills, like energy controlling) is a good way for balancing without making it impossible for some classes.


By this I meant adding a club requirement for frenzy or poison, for example. Or even giving TLMs Maul instead of Stun Grenade.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 9
6/28/2015 19:21:33   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 I think the point here is that the game needs some more development and it could evolve by doing 1 out of 3 things:

1) interchangeable skills: Meaning I could switch my Plasma Cannon for a Bunker Buster/ Venom strike for Toxic Grenade

2) Skill element change: Meaning I could switch my Plasma Cannon for a Mineral cannon (Physical Version of Plasma cannon) and even go as far as switching my Technician to A reflex boost.

Or

3) The simplest solution if raising your classes weapon to do the same dmg as swords but not have the same # of stats (so that swords maintain some integrity)

Solutions one and three can easily address this problem and many problems in the game such as CHs having an extreme lack of physical weapons and/or the recent strength nerfs

AQ DF Epic  Post #: 10
6/29/2015 0:47:02   
Lord Machaar
Member

Would that change anything in the battle for BHs? Classes with limited access to energy will always end up using a skill like poison only once, as frankly, when I face BHs and after the 5th turn, most of them already have enough energy just to use field medic, and through out the battle, they only have enough energy to use critical skills such as blood lust/smoke, and I'm here talking about a BH vs TLM using swords, and TLMs with swords have 0 energy draining skills, so imagine the scene when the class faces another class with better energy-wise skills.
The point of poison is, to make your opponent aware that once you use health medic and your opponent is ready to use poison, you will probably be in troubles. This wouldn't be true if we are talking about BHs.
This change would be more beneficial for CHs as they can easily energ-loop.

@Mother1:
I think you have to update your information about the game, as now, only 2 classes out of 6 have 3 skills that require the class's specific weapon which are CHs/BHs.
Another fact is, no other class in the game now has one of its draining/gaining skills require the class's specific weapon.

I suggest stun grenade gets swapped with maul in TLM's skill tree, and make atom smasher usable with sword.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 6/29/2015 0:58:53 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 11
6/29/2015 0:57:35   
Mother1
Member

@ Lord Machaar

It is actually 5 of the 6 not 2 here are the moves that require class specific weapons for each class

BM

Overload: Staff
Fireball: staff
Supercharge: staff

TM

Plasma bolt: staff
Overload: staff
Supercharge: staff

Merc

Double strike: club
Maul: club
Berzeker: Club

BH

Venom strike: Claws
Cheapshot: claws
Massacre: claws

CH

Vemon strike: Claws
Cheapshot: claws
Massacre: claws

TLM

Double strike: Club
Atom smasher: Club

So unless I am mistaken unless any of these moves have been made useable with a sword then it is as I said only TLM has 2 moves that need a class specific weapon.
Epic  Post #: 12
6/29/2015 1:12:36   
Lord Machaar
Member

I would prefer a class where 3 skills of its skill tree require the class's specific weapon but none of them are energy-related skills, rather than class that has only 2 skills that require a class's specific and one of them is energy-related.
MQ Epic  Post #: 13
6/29/2015 1:22:44   
Mother1
Member

@ Lord machaar

Then to be fair we should make it so all the other classes can use swords without any kind of drawback to them either so it will be fair. Because having one class that can use swords in the current meta without any kind of drawbacks while the others can't can overpower TLM.

Maybe if they make it so Poison and Frenzy requires a club then Atom Smasher could be used with a sword.

Seeing as all the other poison moves need class specific weapons yet toxic grenade doesn't and even if Frenzy does get a club requirement TLM can gain and drain energy with a sword.
Epic  Post #: 14
6/29/2015 2:02:47   
Lord Machaar
Member

Make poison and frenzy require a club?
These are the only effective attacking skills that can still be used with sword, all rest are just garbage skills, stun grenade/field commander/atom smasher, stun grenade is never used since it was introduced, so is field commander, so as atom smasher, even if it is used with sword, you would have to sacrifice one skill on multi in order to use this skill, and even if used, it isn't effective as it requires energy to be used, energy that usually TLMs don't have when they frankly face any other class.
The only viable skills now in TLMs skill tree are: Frenzy (nerfed after strenght nerf), poison (nerfed), battery back up (nothing fancy as energy given by it gets drained in the next turn) and surgical strike which is rarely used due the limited access to energy.

No matter how much OPed the skills a class has, if this class has limited access to energy, all these skills will turn into useless skills, best example are mercs, they have better skills in general than TLMs, but their energy gaining skill is the worst in the game, do their skills matter now? Not so much.
So first of all, I believe that all classes have atleast a direct access to energy or atleast a safe one, and then we can talk about requirements, because if we base our words about the number of skills that require the class's special weapon to be used as a criteria, then make stun grenade and field commander (double strike and atom smasher) require a club, does it even matter? even though we see here that 4 skills require a club, but does it matter? We are here talking about what skills require the class's special weapon and not how many of them.
This notion is important because when we talk about an important skill requiring a class's special weapon, this skill can usually be used with all builds, e.g: atom smasher, while double strike for instance is useless using a support build or even a 5 focus.
Any other skill in the game except atom smasher that requires a class's specific weapon is usually not usable with all builds, which is something we can't deny here.

My point here is, in terms of builds that are being used, skills that require a class's specific weapon may or may not matter, giving an example of TMs:
Strenght TMs using a sword: Plasma bolt, does it matter if it requires a staff? Nope, Overload, does it matter if it requires a staff? Nope, Super charge, does it matter if it requires a Staff? Nope.
5 Focus TMs: Yes, Nope, Yes.
Dex TMs: Nope, Yes, Nope.
Here we see three different TMs builds, strenght builds aren't even touched with these skills requiring a staff, while 5 focus builds do.
It is a matter of which build you are using, that's why skills in question here matter not the number, because if for example assimilation is the one who requires a staff here, all builds will be touched by this requirement.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 6/29/2015 2:23:12 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 15
6/29/2015 5:35:05   
King Bling
Member

In terms of tlm, if they make atomic smash possible with swords, then ya either poison or frenzy goes to club requirement. Since having frenzy battery poison surge and atomic on sword is pretty OP combo. To break this combo either frenzy or poison goes to club.
Post #: 16
6/30/2015 0:01:39   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 I'm not liking the whole "Lets get rid of weapon requirements" movement. I actually enjoy using my classes weapon sometime for the art since its the only thing we have left for fun and id prefer if it stayed that way.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 17
6/30/2015 6:07:55   
King Bling
Member

But really those "weapon requirement builds" are unless in 1vs1 because you know at this moment every thing is bs which isnt tanky or offensive.
Post #: 18
6/30/2015 9:20:10   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Not really. There were alot of builds that required a weapon until the recent balance changes. You might as well make the entire skill tree weapon optional and even out class weapons and swords.

I love how devs make these changes thinking its for the better because they're not experienced enough to find effective builds.

< Message edited by The berserker killer -- 6/30/2015 9:22:09 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 19
7/1/2015 17:50:03   
Stonehawk
Member

quote:

Maybe if they make it so Poison and Frenzy requires a club then Atom Smasher could be used with a sword.


Perfect! I've been trying to say that for ages... but then (in my opinion, which makes sense) it should be "toxic smash" or something, because I can't see how a club is needed to use a grenade... This would imply in changing even TLMs picture in which he is holding 2 toxic grenades...
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 20
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