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Underdog revamp or REMOVE

 
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10/25/2015 1:46:59   
Thylek Shran
Member

Its a fail as it makes lower ranks more powerfull than higher ranks. Lower levels get a huge advantage
that they do not deserve. The Underdog Mode system does make the huge amount of time that got
invested into leveling and ranking up obsolete. High ranked players do get mucked around with it.
A powerfull build does now count more than levels and ranks which is lunatic.

Change the formula or remove it. Its just that simple.
DF Epic  Post #: 1
10/25/2015 1:51:49   
Silver Sky Magician
Member


Builds should count more than ranks or levels. Ranks or levels shouldn't make a bad build triumph over a good one. They may make an otherwise unviable build viable, but they should not supersede good strategy and build-making.

In addition, underdog mode's benefits are objectively and mathematically inferior to that of ranks and levels. All things being equal, higher ranked and levelled players will always have the advantage.

< Message edited by Silver Sky Magician -- 10/25/2015 2:08:45 >
Post #: 2
10/25/2015 2:19:42   
Thylek Shran
Member

Its mathematically not true as practice shows. The game has become to much build related as
balance never got fixed nearly. People just want to play the game and having fun and not brood
about builds to be successfull. ED is basically more an arcade game but it has become chess.
Personally I never did like chess even that im not the worst in it without any practice.

< Message edited by Thylek Shran -- 10/25/2015 2:21:36 >
DF Epic  Post #: 3
10/25/2015 13:04:03   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


quote:

Its mathematically not true as practice shows.


That's called an experiment, which would fall under statistical proof. And statistics isn't math. So yes I would agree that it is mathematically true.

After all, I don't even remember the exact number of ranks that's equal to 1 eLvL but as far as I'm aware 1 point in both dex and tech is worth like 5 ranks at most in total. Even less conversion value for strength.

Epic  Post #: 4
10/25/2015 16:39:49   
shadow.bane
Member

ill say one thing and take into reconsideration : ranks simply does not give you RNG (block/deflection/critical) chances but underdog does .

let's say i face a level 38 and am rank 62 , he will get underdog mode level VIII means the max amount of extra stats given , well technically i am more powerful than him , but what devs didn't think of is that he got extra block/deflection/critical chances or that was intended ? 2 blocks or 2 deflection or 2 critical can be lethal to u no matter how skilled u are or how ranked u are .

simply , we got damage, they get extra stats and each 4 stats considered a level .

and we played and wasted time to get this rank , they did nothing and handed them underdog mode on a silver plater :D

< Message edited by shadow.bane -- 10/25/2015 16:41:23 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 5
10/25/2015 19:55:23   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


having 1 more dex or tech is a fraction of a percentage of extra block/deflection chance. It's almost completely negligible. The effect that you will get a block/deflect/crit from 1-2 points in dex/tech/supp will happen maybe once every 5-10 battles. And 5-10 is an underestimation to be generous.
Epic  Post #: 6
10/26/2015 15:44:05   
shadow.bane
Member

if u haven't noticed yet , ever fraction of a % in ED counts :) , u have 1 more extra dex u block like crazy same to supp and tech .
AQW Epic  Post #: 7
10/26/2015 19:37:43   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


That means that either the game is messed up and the in-game code doesn't fit with what we were told were the formulas for block/deflect/crit, or you were just unlucky since I'm supposing you're speaking from personal experience.

In any case, supposing that the information we were given on formulas is correct, the expected value from 1 more stat point is still a fraction and therefore not a big deal at all.
Epic  Post #: 8
11/1/2015 12:58:17   
Thylek Shran
Member

The formulas are outdated and we only know parts of the new ones.
The base chances may still be those from 2014 but this has never
been confirmed and so its unknown. Its hard to impossible for us
players to help with balance if we do not know the correct formulas.
DF Epic  Post #: 9
11/28/2015 14:33:56   
nowras
Member

Unfortunately NO ONE of the devs think in a good way... that's becuz no one is an active rank 70-80 or higher.

How many times should I repeat that underdog mode becomes SO UNFAIR when someone whose rank 49 fights someone whose rank 80.

and that's not only at rank 49.. that's from rank 27-79 against a rank 80+ but its unfair the most at rank 49...

They become Uber tank becuz of the extra stats they get. They become Uber Offensive becuz of the amount of stats they get that increase their primary, bot and aux they will 100% start 1st. Well LOGICALLY IF I BRING SOMEONE WHOSE IMMATURE AND TOLD HIM WHO WILL WIN HE WILL SAY THE RANK 49 WILL DO. U GUYS ARE MATURE U SHOULD ACTUALLY KNOW THAT UNDERDOG MODE IS UNFAIR.


there's also this problem when u use a support build as a rank 80 and vs someone whose rank 39... or 29...
all what u need of legendary mode is aux def and resis the rest are not necessary so the rank 29 or 39 will get a HUGE ADVANTAGE over the rank 80.. and u say why everyone whose high ranked is using focus builds -.-. Not only supp builds there're dex, str and many other builds..


the last thing is... the extra credits and exp they get... like omg we played before underdog mode and beat a lot of high ranked players without the underdog mode itself and we didn't get extra credits or exp I think u guys should give anyone whose rank 80 or more an amount of credits and extra XP equals 150k credits and 30k EXP to make it fair for us...



My suggestion that I have said tons of times and will always do since devs don't listen to me and they know I'm 100% right...

MAKE UNDERDOG MODE GIVE 50% OF WHAT THE HIGHER RANKED PLAYER HAVE OF PERKS TO THE LOWER RANKED PLAYER SIMPLE AND DOESNT REQUIRE TOO MUCH OF CODING.
AQW Epic  Post #: 10
11/28/2015 14:43:08   
Lord Machaar
Member

If underdog is removed, remove the ranking system along with it with a good compensation and rare cheevo, and introduce a new competitive and balanced system, or just continue with level systems.
Otherwise, ranked and unranked battles seem like a good solution.
MQ Epic  Post #: 11
11/28/2015 15:36:04   
dfo99
Member
 

nightwraith post that clearly don't support the underdog removal because high ranks discourage low lvs players, but titan said far before in a 2014 live stream (the leg ranks was already released) that there is no handicap on epic duel, but probably he forgot this and then implement the underdog buff, i think that titan should fulfill his words.
Post #: 12
11/29/2015 8:36:31   
nowras
Member

Deleting Underdog mode isn't a good solution but my solution is actually the best and will make it fair for everyone.

< Message edited by nowras -- 11/29/2015 8:37:45 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 13
11/29/2015 8:42:14   
Silver Sky Magician
Member


^

If for instance a 5 focus player adds all his ranks to bot damage, STR, DEX and SUPP builds will not benefit at all with your idea.
Post #: 14
11/29/2015 8:46:11   
nowras
Member

Explain please..?

If I want to use a focus build i'd max out def and resis before bot,..

plus its not my problem that the player who adds his stats to bot is not a good player becuz a good player would add them to def and resis not to mention that u guys already don't give Anything to someone whose rank 1 fighting someone whose rank 9 so bot is better than nothing:))))))

< Message edited by nowras -- 11/29/2015 8:56:32 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 15
11/29/2015 15:46:07   
shadow.bane
Member

well ill say this 1 thing and will never see this thread again cause am tired of low ranks complaining while they have the biggest advantage here

as @nowras said yes we focus on def/res first not bot

we spent TIME and REAL MONEY to rank up and worked hard so we got high ranks , they didn't spend time nor money nor worked hard got extra STATS

extra stats means extra block/deflection/critical/start first chance over high ranks not to mention the gap that gives about 4 % to each 10 ranks diff to start first

the reason why I don't PVP anymore and only stick to NPCS is the RNG when I lose a match against a support BM while the match was 100 % my win , well I lost cause I MoB him and he blocked I said okay ill kill him next turn he auxed me and he crit , I said okay it's my win anyway so I used Infernal Android normal attack and guess what yeah he blocked it while I have 46 + 33 + 6 dex and he have 19 + 14 + 4 (underdog) , does that gives him the right to block me twice in a row ? GG PVP it's lame now and will never pvp again unless there is an important mission or after they do a REAL BALANCE to EpicDuel !

AQW Epic  Post #: 16
11/29/2015 15:52:15   
Silver Sky Magician
Member


^

It is not theoretically possible for him to block if he does not have the Ninja Reflexes core. Please make a bug report with the appropriate evidence. You can record your PvPs like youtubers to try to catch evidence of this bug if it afflicts you so often.

The luck advantage gained from underdog is at most 1% even at the max Underdog buff.
Post #: 17
11/29/2015 16:30:10   
shadow.bane
Member

^ 1 % does count in this case and no he didn't have a ninja reflex and I did make a bug report and u expect me to still be online on ed after this ? I raged the big red X button on the uppor right side of the screen when he blocked the bot and didn't pvp since so how come I can provide a proof plus I argued about this with ranloth ages ago and mad a video about it and proved that all ranloth's calculation are wrong ! there is no 0 % block chance on 40 - 50 dex idk the exact number it's all rable's lies or something !
AQW Epic  Post #: 18
11/29/2015 18:26:32   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


Shadow I said this in a different thread but I'll repeat it here. Pm me the video and I'll take a look at it
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 19
11/30/2015 16:19:07   
Cyber Dream
Member

In my opinion, ranks should not even exist if it requires a new feature to be added in to close the gap between higher and lower players. In the end, higher players are still being given an advantage. What's the point? We're already stronger than the lower level when we hit level 40, so why add in a feature to make us even stronger? It's like pay to win without the paying feature, instead we're just playing to win. I never did like it.
AQW Epic  Post #: 20
11/30/2015 16:54:38   
Lord Machaar
Member

^ Your point of looking at things is totally correct but one sided.
For me, the only advantage of ranks in-game is to hide the huge balance problems this game have.
For instance if ranks didn't exist, and everyone reached level 40, ton of players, we will simply have copy-paste version of each player when it comes to equipement and builds, we will even have identical builds, same stats, and in this case, starting first would be a hit of luck when it comes to a 5 focus vs 5 focus battles, and luck factors will even be far more worse. Unexplained blocks and defs, weird crits, while both of you have exactly the same stats.
At least Ranks Vs UM hides that, since one has stats that boost luck factors, which is totally legit.
Otherwise for those who say that ranks are here to keep no lifers happy, I would say ranking system wouldn't survive till now, since I wouldn't destroy a whole game for a small minority. Otherwise I could introduce other non game breaking means to keep the game balanced, for instance, exlusive shops like legendary shops, legendary battles, credit sink cheevos , wars, etc... So if one of you think, including devs, that ranks are still here for that reason, what can I say , no comment!

ED isn't balanced well enough to sustain such a removal, when there weren't ranks, there was the huge varium advantage, in every phase of ED, you will find a thing that gives X amount of players an advantage that majority can't have. For instance varium = Money, not everyone can pay for that, and Ranks = Time, not everyone can dump a huge amount of time. The problem with basing advantage on time spent in-game (ranks) is Botting npcs. Consequence? Players with 20k+ NPCs having 60+ ranks out of the blue. Another consequence? Empty PVP battle modes with rank 60+ players popping out of nowhere, since basically they were botting NPCs, and earning PVP advantage through there without even playing PVP. Logic. If pvp advantage aka ranks was earned only from pvp battles, we wouldn't see such abundance of high ranked players in the game.

The solution I gave is kinda late to apply, a revamp is necessary, then applying the solution I gave which is PvP advantage (ranks or anything else) can only be earned through PVP battles, not assigning a bot to do NPCS for you, hit 50k+ NPCs and come here cry about PvP advantage. Irony.

Conclusion: ED will be far worst if all players are brought to equality, having same stats, builds and etc, since the game is already imbalanced and lacks a lot of variety. Advantage is a good thing, yes, but it must be extremely balanced.

PS: there might be some type in my text since I'm typing from my phone. I'll correct them later.

This thread was old and necro'd... does not matter if it was for two days. Bumping is not allowed in AEF. Consider this thread locked. If you all want to continue the discussion. Just make a new thread. ~Caststarter


< Message edited by Caststarter -- 11/30/2015 17:42:46 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 21
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