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Make underdog Buyable and...

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1/28/2016 9:37:38   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 My suggestion is to make underdog a buyable core so that it uses up an armor slot.

Underdog allows the player to have:

-Bonus strength to increase skills that increase with strength
-Bonus tech to increase skills that increase with tech
-Bonus dex to increase skills that increase with dex
-Bonus support to increase skills that increase with support
-Bonus Aux Damage
-Bonus Bot Damage
-Bonus Sidearm Damage
-Bonus Primary Damage
-Bonus Defense
-Bonus Resistance
-4 Luck based cores, along with the previously effects.

With this suggestion in place, players would have to choose between having underdog or a luck based passive armor skill.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 1
1/28/2016 11:37:26   
Mother1
Member

Not supported.

This would also mean that any player that shouldn't be getting underdog mode in battle would have access to it, and it kind of defeats the purpose of having the mode to help those players who are at a disadvantage.
Epic  Post #: 2
1/28/2016 12:07:12   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 It doesn't matter if a higher level buys UnderDog because it wouldn't be active since UnderDog is based solely on levels. Cmon mother you know that.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 3
1/28/2016 12:42:59   
racing.lo.mas
Member

Underdog mode plus any luck passive (for example ninja reflex) is so strong.
Its fair, I guess. Dont make them pay a high price for it, 1k is enough.
The idea isnt make them to pay, the idea is make their luck stop.
Epic  Post #: 4
1/28/2016 14:47:34   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 Not supported because it will basically just become a mandatory core and we want to try and avoid that. I don't see how having an additional tiny bit of chance to block or deflect an attack would be anywhere near as good as getting free stats almost every battle given you aren't at level 40. Not to mention the core itself is completely situational because of random PvP matchmaking. If I take underdog as a level 15 and I fight a level 14 who isn't running underdog I have a core that does nothing while they have a core that does something. Cores should always have an impact 100% of the time in battles and not be determined by something random like matchmaking.
Epic  Post #: 5
1/28/2016 16:06:11   
racing.lo.mas
Member

What about the core that reduce the damage ignored when someone do a critical on you?
What about the stun core for aux? The stun core for gun? They dont work often. They are just working in most of fights due to the luck bug.
What about Absorption? Just work if the opponent is focus. A strength player wont use his bot, and even if he used it you would get 15 energy.
There are many cores that dont work always.
Underdog mode can be one more of them.

Another way.. let the core works as it does now. When you fight a higher player it gets activatede, but if you have a "luck" core, you lose it.
Underdog mode + ninja reflex is really op.
Epic  Post #: 6
1/28/2016 19:25:49   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 A mandatory core? No it won't. It forces the individual to choose ONE armor passive instead of the UNFAIR TWO that they have. You take a chance with the cores you pick. You choose ninja reflex in order to counter builds that strike often. You pick deflection core to counter builds that used long range attacks. In some situations and some PVPS either core may be completely useless.

So, only a few cores have an impact 100% of the time in battles and those are the eternal cores and underdog. With your wording your claiming ALL CORES should have an impact 100% of the time when that's really not the case. At all. It is infact based on random matchmaking.

So, once again, I move to have this core accessible in vendbot for anyone who chooses to purchase it only to give underdog a SLIGHT nerf as it only buffs every luck factor, every skill, your defense and resistance, and the damage of all of your weapons.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 7
1/29/2016 0:51:08   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 If a person uses a deflectable attack even a single time in a match, you gain value from that core since its numbers are considered into the calculations. Whether or not it gives you a deflect doesn't matter, what matters is that the core had affected a calculation in the system for that fight. Likewise for any other core. This applies to almost every single core existing in the game. If I take ninja reflexes into a battle and my opponent uses a total of 0 blockable moves that whole game then it would be fair to say it had no impact that one fight and therefore has no impact in 100% of all fights.

Your counterargument is basically just "It didn't help me win that battle so by default it had no value that match" which is entirely wrong. Ninja reflexes impacts a fight the moment the opponent uses strike or any blockable move, regardless of whether or not you actually get a block. Until people start making builds that just never use blockable attacks in fights consistently ninja reflexes will consistently maintain value in almost all battles. Underdog, on the other hand, just straight up becomes useless as soon as the fight starts if you fight against someone who is the same/lower level for you.

I don't even see the need to nerf underdog in the first place. It has never given more stats and most of the time, less stats to those who are lower level than their opponent. The only change they should make is to shift the underdog bonus to not be free stats but something like weaker legendary rank bonuses for level 40s. It works fine for people who aren't at the level cap; it just has inconsistencies since it continues to give bonuses as if a person was lower level rather than lower rank in matches between 2 level 40s. Change it so that , for example, when a rank 1 fights a rank 20, the rank 1 gains maybe 10 legendary ranks spread out evenly among all the possible rank categories instead to make the underdog bonuses more consistent in granting realistic bonuses to compensate for being lower level/rank.
Epic  Post #: 8
1/30/2016 11:03:49   
The berserker killer
Member

 
quote:

This applies to almost every single core existing in the game. If I take ninja reflexes into a battle and my opponent uses a total of 0 blockable moves that whole game then it would be fair to say it had no impact that one fight and therefore has no impact in 100% of all fights.


No, it wouldn't be fair to say that it has no impact in 100% of all fights since all fights aren't exactly the same. Your reasoning really doesn't make sense though since if you have 0 blocks with a core like ninja reflex on then it's fair to say that the core did not help you for that single match. Meaning it did not have an impact at all on the outcome.

Im not asking to nerf the core, im asking to nerf the feature as it allows the player to have 4 luck cores and a stat boost to each category, along with a slight damage boost to every weapon and a slight damage boost to every skill.

quote:

The only change they should make is to shift the underdog bonus to not be free stats but something like weaker legendary rank bonuses for level 40s


And I have already suggested something like that: To only allow underdog mode to affect Primary Damage, Sidearm, Aux, Bot, Defense and Resistance but once again it seems as if every underdog user is magically opposed to this OP feature while thedevs sit idly by and listen to them because the some of testers don't even know how to apply legendary stats.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 9
1/30/2016 17:49:51   
Cookiesaregood
Member
 

 Not supported defeats the purpose of underdog in the first place.
Post #: 10
1/30/2016 23:37:20   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Underdog was created to give lower ranks a competitive edge, but not to much of a competitive edge which they are currently receiving. Making the core buyable isn't a bad suggestion. Lets be real for a second here, it's not a bad suggestion at all as it limits your player to 4 passive cores instead of the 5 they currently have. But, once again, god forbid I speak out against a feature that low levels/rankers are abusing.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 11
1/31/2016 0:20:28   
Mother1
Member

@tbk

All lower level players get underdog mode not just those who fight against higher ranked/level 40 players. If a level 23 fights a level 26 the 23 will get underdog mode as well. Also if this happened all those lower level players who had there disadvantage lowered to a very small amount due to lack of stats will pay the price just because a small group of players (level 40's lower ranked vs level 40's higher ranks) get the short end of the stick due to this.

Changing this mode to fix this problem will in turn throw all lower levels who aren't fighting high ranked players back to the wolves. They already deal with item and/or stat disadvantages as it is depending on match up.
Epic  Post #: 12
1/31/2016 13:04:26   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 No it wont though. I'm not suggesting for a major change to tis core. All I'm suggesting is for the core to be buyable hence limiting the player to the 4 cores they should have instead of the unfair 5 they do have. It simply uses up an armor slot and restricting their luck %.

Hahah so someone please just tell me that its completely fair that underdog players get 4 luck bases cores and a boost to all of them, instead of 3 luck based cores and a boost to all of them, so I know what kind of player environment I am trying to talk to. Because this is unbelievable
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 13
1/31/2016 14:31:22   
Mother1
Member

@ TBK

Unlike the higher level ranked players who fight other ranked players everyone else be they fight a ranked level 40 or lower is at not only a solid weapon, armor disadvantage but also a stat disadvantage which the current underdog mode gives back somewhat.

This is even worse for players at level 37 and 38 who fight level 40's with ranks.

Stats give luck factor since they are tied to them and while I can see this as unfair for level 40's facing level 40's ranked or not because they have the same stats with equipment and everything else other than ranks everyone else who isn't in the category will be disadvantaged by your change.

If it was only affecting ranked players who fought other ranked players by all means I would support but since underdog was made to combat the power disadvantage that has been complained about for years even before ranks came putting those players back at a disadvantage just so a small group of players can have even fights (level 40's vs level 40's) while the rest are thrown to the wolves I can't support.

< Message edited by Mother1 -- 1/31/2016 14:32:18 >
Epic  Post #: 14
2/5/2016 14:13:31   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 So some players should just have access to 5 passive cores while others don't? Nahhh I don't think that's how the game should work nor do I think that it was intended for it to work that way. It should be buyable for those that choose to use it/who need it.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 15
2/5/2016 19:45:37   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 I guess you also think that level differences shouldn't exist. They gain that extra passive core to compensate for level differences.

To be fair though I strongly support the concept of leveling in ED anyways and there have been a few threads made related to a system functioning off of that too.
Epic  Post #: 16
2/5/2016 20:52:52   
Mother1
Member

@ TBK

Your suggestion as I pointed out would be perfect if this was a level 40 vs 40 thing seeing as the mass majority if not all of the complaint about underdog mode is coming from high ranked players who are getting screwed over by this battle mode which surprisingly is the flaw in this battle mode.

However for anyone please who isn't battling level 40's the mode isn't making the normally weaker person more powerful than the stronger person.

Which as exploding penguin mentioned does for anyone who is level 40 battling a level 40.

While I understand you point of view I don't support screwing over one group of people which surprisingly is the majority to make the minority (in this case level high ranked level 40's who battle low ranked level 40's) happy.

Especially if said player is new and has no clue about the underdog core. This would totally screw them over as well.

So if anything I would support making underdog work differently for level 40's vs level 40's or even slightly different for players who aren't level 40's who fight them however I don't support making a change that will affect everyone including those who aren't in the player group where this is happening.
Epic  Post #: 17
2/9/2016 15:36:41   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 No ones getting screwed over in the end. At the end of the day you make a choice: Underdog, or any other passive armor core. Its not that hard.

But thank you for the constructive criticism in your last paragraph. That has to be one of the very few times ive ever seen another forummate use constructive criticism
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 18
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