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5/3/2016 2:51:15   
GodOfTechno
Member

A big game changer? Make one class capable of wielding all powers. This will eliminate class balance issues and when done will only require "small tweaks."

Feel free to reply with constructive criticism to help evolve this thread. Otherwise, please don't reply.

Before replying to this thread please read the Posting Behavior section of this hyperlink.


CONSTRUCTIVE CRITISM TO THE EVOLUTION OF THIS SUGGESTION---------------


-Everyone would have the same base stats and skills.
-More stat/skill points will let us be able to focus on more than one skill while balancing health, energy, weapons, defense, resistance.
-Make stat point increase to skill relativity more spread out so super stating one stat is useless.
-We would also have to decide what tier each skill would be in or remove tiers and sort them by buffs, debuffs, multis, energy/health manipulations, Mains ( bolts, stuns, cannons), and Supers. OR lets be real and sort it by what stat makes them stronger.
-All 6 current classes would need to be deleted.
-Weapon restrictions would need to be removed.
-Skills requiring a certain weapon can remain. (tweakable)

< Message edited by GodOfTechno -- 5/5/2016 21:52:25 >
Epic  Post #: 1
5/3/2016 19:41:49   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 Cool idea, not supported because realistically this would be extremely difficult to balance appropriately.
Epic  Post #: 2
5/3/2016 22:07:49   
Cyber Dream
Member

@ImplodingPenguin:)

I agree and on top of that, a class like that wouldn't really be necessary since classes already share some of the same features. If you look at it in a way, it would be like making a new class that is already nerfed to start off with considering the limited skill point count.
AQW Epic  Post #: 3
5/4/2016 21:52:08   
GodOfTechno
Member

balance? funny, everyone would have all the same skills.
Epic  Post #: 4
5/5/2016 0:43:33   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 See, there goes that criticism that you guys call "constructive". I'm not battering you here exploding penguin but you gotta give a better reason than "difficult tobalance appropriately" or at least elaborate on it as cyber has done.

As for GodofTechno: you have to elaborate on your ideas, especially something like this with, with some stats, reasoning, pros and cons.

As for the suggestion: I support it but not in the way you worded it. Heres my draw up:

Class names
-Matrix Mercenary
-Matrix Tactical Mercenary
-Matrix Bounty Hunter
-Matrix Cyber Hunter
-Matrix Blood Mage
-Matrix Techmage

What makes it special? Well it's basically a "Design your own class". Hear me out before saying it's OP.

Every class is set up in a particular way, with 4 rows 3 columns.

Now each class has 12 moves however what will make this class unique is the fact that you get to interchange the skills from all classes. The class you pick mainly specifies what kind of armors you will be able to equip, your weapon requirement, DRAMATICALLY LOWER base stats (see final paragraph for explaining) , your basic skills along with what skill tree set-up you will be using.

I'll give you an example:

If I choose Matrix Mercenary I will receive a Mercenary skill tree (The format). However for each buff/burst damage/ultimate/energy moving skill, even attack, I can choose another one as long as the weapon requirement matches my class and/or it has no weapon requirement. Instead of static smash I can have static grenade, instead of maul I can have Stun Grenade, instead of Bunker Buster I can have Plasma Cannon and instead of Hybrid I can have Reflex Boost... Or can I? Pay close attention.

Now there will be restrictions such as:
- you cant have Both Blood Commander and Mark of Blood (which will be pretty difficult to do once you keep reading).
-Your skills must fall in line or follow your classes Skill tree in terms of the type of skills that your class originally has, and the tiered skill that it is (Shields do not have to be tiered). See below for further explanation.
- Nerfs have to be limited to tier. Buffs do not.
- Naturally, only skills without weapon requirements can be transferred
If need be, all devs have to do is change tiers around a bit. Tiers should be a relatively easy thing to change actually, meaning skills that you don't want a certain class to have can just be re-tiered and the trees designed in a way that that class can't access it.

Static Charge, Battery, are what I mean by Energy Gaining moves. They are free and minimally affect the enemy without taking his or her energy. Parasite, Emp, static grenade, assimilation, static smash, etc classify as energy stealing moves

Frenzy, due to its uniqueness as a burst damage skill, will classify as a burst damage skill instead of an energy gaining skill.

So to simplify it even more, every class has its own layout that it CANNOT abandon for a certain skill or combination of skills

For mercenaries their layout goes like this:

Fm Bd S
Bf St Bd
Mi Nf Bd
Ult Bf Es

Legend:

Bd- Burst Damage
Fm- Field Medic
Bf- Buff
Nf- Nerf
S- Shield
Dot- Damage Over Time
Mi- Multi
Ult- Ultimate
Eg- Energy Gain
Es- Energy Steal
St- Stun

That means that for mercs, reading left to right, I get to choose:

Field medic, 1st tiered burst damage skill, Shield
Buff, Stun, 2nd tiered burst damage skill
3rd tiered multi, nerf, 3rd tiered Burst damage
4th tiered Ultimate, buff, Energy Steal

So according to what I have previously stated, I would be able to create a Matrix Mercenary with skills like this:

Field Medic, Double Strike, Energy Shield
Technician, Maul, Plasma Cannon
Plasma Rain, Malfunction, Zerk
Surgical Strike, Field Commander, Parasite


Notice how I can have Plasma Cannon because it is a burst damage skill who is in the same tier as Bunker Buster, But I can not have Battery because the merc skill tree doesn't allow free skills such as Battery Backup or Static Charge. Nor can I have stun grenade in place of Maul, because stun grenade is a tier 3 skill and Overload has a staff requirement.





Listen I like this idea because it's simple and seems like the quickest, most effective, and most balanced way to bring about change to EpicDuel as opposed to making 10 new classes with 100 new animations then going through 2 years+ of balancing 100+ skills. Doesn't make sense to me to spend all of that time.

This feature will be applied to all 6 of the current classes, hence making it free for all players to enjoy without being inferior to the matrix versions. The class change costs will be, respectively, remaining the same.

What is the overall goal?

- Increase overall diversity without introducing large amounts of new content
- Increase the number of skills for each class
- Increase the number of builds for each class
- Reduce noticeable imbalance between classes

No one will be OP, no one will have an advantage, the possibilities are endless, and it's a simple and easy change that wouldnt take more than a day yet it will have an insane positive effect


So, with all of this, there has to be more of a catch right? Ideally, the matrix versions would just be better versions of the normal versions. So heres the catch: Dramatically lower base stats. Meaning that depending on your Matrix Version, your base stats will be a dramatically lower version than your counterpart.

Now I don't log in anymore so I cant test this out, but heres an example based on my previous knowledge:

Mercenary Base stats

HP:750
Energy:620
Strength: 20
Dex:17
Technology: 19
Support: 20

Now a Matrix Mercenarys base stats would look like

HP: 650
Energy: 550
Strength:15
Dex:12
Technology: 16
Support:17

That way original classes keep their bonuses, strengths, individualities and advantages over matrix versions.

Over and above all, great idea. Just elaborate some more
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 5
5/5/2016 0:59:31   
GodOfTechno
Member

I'm a blunt to the point kind of guy...
If there is only one class that has all the skills your balance theories go out the window
It is a build your own class.
Everyone would have the same base stats.
More skill/stat points can be given to increase strategy.
More stat/skill points will let us be able to focus on more than one skill while balancing health, energy, weapons, defense, resistance.
The strategies will be endless.
Ofcourse let the stat point increase to skill relativity be spread out more so super stating one stat is useless.
We would also have to decide what tier each skill would be in or remove tiers and sort them by buffs, debuffs, multis, energy/health manipulations, Mains ( bolts, stuns, cannons), and Supers. OR lets be real and sort it by what stat makes them stronger.


Limiting the classes back to 12 a smart player will choose the skills that all increase with the same stat and will be OP.

< Message edited by GodOfTechno -- 5/5/2016 1:43:18 >
Epic  Post #: 6
5/5/2016 2:48:04   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 Sorry, I didn't necessarily have the time to elaborate on something I barely understood at the time of making the post.

Generally when balancing a game if you start toying with numbers in unorthodox ways (such as number of skill points) you will inherently get something harder to balance. Why? Because it's completely unparallel to anything else in the game thus far. And the 6 classes are already very difficult to balance as can be seen by the several attempts over the past many years.

We've had tons of "design your own class" kind of suggestions in the past. From discussion on several of them, this is my takeaway from them:

They are very hard to balance and have a low chance of actually showing up in the game for other reasons as well. The big #1 reason I can think of off the top of my head is that in order to introduce a remotely balanced version of one, a LOT of tweaking of numbers has to happen that pertain specifically to the "build your own class" skill tree that you have made. Now, what this does is not that bad to most people on the forums, but the target audience of ED does include younger people in its scope as well. By making something so intricately complex in how numbers are tweaked in order to rebalance the class, it shuts out a lot of the players who can't really understand the process that well. It just makes the feature feel confusing to them and they feel shut out of it and excluded to some extent. Not to mention that investing the effort for a completely new feature like this is very, very low on a priority list of what actually needs to happen in ED. It's a cool idea, but I can't possibly see this even come remotely close to happening until far beyond even the distant future.

As such, not supported. For those that are curious, when I support or not support something, I also take into factor the efficiency of the effort put into it and how much of an impact it will have on the game. The amount of benefit which will be reaped from implementing this into ED in its current state is definitely nowhere near justifiable for the amount of effort which must be invested into making it happen. However, if we were in an extremely promising future with a bustling ED community and the game in general is doing very well, I would be far more inclined to support this then. But not now.

Btw you guys don't have to treat me with extra respect or anything just because I'm the PR Liason. All I do intend to do is perform like a normal user here just as I have been doing in the past, except take on the additional task of conveying what I interpret as what you guys want the devs to know (suggestions, complaints, etc...) to the devs themselves, and then talk to you guys to appropriately convey what they want you to know in a more direct way. So, just regard me as a normal user just like anybody else.
Epic  Post #: 7
5/5/2016 17:48:34   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 Yes. The point is that it can be balanced but makes an overly complicated system that isn't as inviting to a lot of the players. As such, the benefit for the amount of effort which needs to be put in to making this work is simply not enough right now. In the future I could see this possibly working though.
Epic  Post #: 8
5/5/2016 18:26:09   
GodOfTechno
Member

I feel redesigning 11 skills is way more of a balance issue and overly complicated, than merging all the classes into one.
Epic  Post #: 9
5/5/2016 19:00:16   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 No, in order to merge all the classes into one you have to introduce many slight tweaks to their numbers to balance them in an appropriate situation, which is what makes it complex.

You would have to limit how skill trees are built in certain ways, you would have to retune the base stats and/or skill point numbers, and apply all these other nuances which essentially make the create-a-class type of feature very hard for somebody to pick up and understand quickly. When I suggested my BM rework, every single skill's effects are clearly laid out. It scales with this stat, the energy cost increases, etc... Everything is explained in a clear and concise manner as to what the skill costs and what it does.
Epic  Post #: 10
5/5/2016 19:14:33   
GodOfTechno
Member

everyone has the same skills and can do the same thing get your balance out of here. Your suggestion means to create new skills all that need new stat principles which you did not lay out. energy costs which you did not lay out. A complete reconstruction of the blood mage class. which will have balance issues for each new individual skill.

Removed unnecessary content ~Battle Elf

< Message edited by Battle Elf -- 5/6/2016 15:24:35 >
Epic  Post #: 11
5/5/2016 20:23:28   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 I actually had a really long response to that but I accidentally deleted it so I'm just going to do a short one instead:

The reason I'm not supporting this is not because it will be imbalanced on release, but because the means required to balance it will just turn the feature into something that's very hard to understand at just a glance and as such will be a turn-off for many players. Also, using "everyone will have access to the same thing" doesn't even apply because what happens to the previous 6 classes now? They have limited access to only their own skill trees. You'd have to remove them according to what you said.

If you want to discuss my suggestions then you should do it in the appropriate thread. It has no relevance here and you're basically just using it in an attempt to undermine my argument on this topic which initially had nothing to do with my own suggestion in the first place. What my suggestion has is clarity on exactly what it does: you spend health on a skill to deal damage, you spend energy to block damage, etc... If you look at what TBK offered, which is a very clear explanation of a possible way to implement the suggestion in a balanced manner, you will see he defined exactly what should happen, which is not what you offered. He said stuff such as:

quote:

Dramatically lower base stats.


Which is VERY clear in exactly what needs to happen. This is just one of many nuances though in how balancing the system would work. Overall, when you add all of these small little things up it becomes very complex to understand at just a glance.

The reason why I don't provide numbers in my suggestions anymore is because people on the forums like to dispose of the concept behind suggestions and like to nitpick on how "oh this will be OP," etc...



My argument has very little to do with whether or not it will be balanced. Of course it can be balanced and would be fun if it existed in the game and is balanced. My argument is that there will actually be very little benefit reaped from the enormous amount of effort required to successfully implement it into the game.

Posts merged ~Battle Elf


< Message edited by Battle Elf -- 5/6/2016 15:31:10 >
Epic  Post #: 12
5/5/2016 21:04:32   
GodOfTechno
Member

You have provided some constructive criticism out of all of this.... Being, we would have to remove the other 6 classes and doing so also remove weapon class restrictions. Weapon to skill restrictions can stay in affect. Everything else I answered way earlier and you stated questions I answered. Little benefit to being capable of using all of the skills. This would also eliminate class balance issues and will only require "small tweaks" as you put it from then on.

< Message edited by GodOfTechno -- 5/5/2016 21:09:37 >
Epic  Post #: 13
5/5/2016 21:16:53   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 That's not why I was not supporting the suggestion.

If stuff has too many extra things like "lower the stats to compensate for this, limit the skills in this very specific way, etc..." they all add up to something complicated and hard to understand for some people. Those people would feel shut out which is why I don't support it.



My examples were pulled directly from TBK's post.

And that's exactly my point. It should be understood by EVERYONE, not just some people. I can understand it but it doesn't mean 100% of the playerbase can.

Posts merged ~Battle Elf

< Message edited by Battle Elf -- 5/6/2016 15:31:54 >
Epic  Post #: 14
5/5/2016 22:58:19   
Lord Machaar
Member

EP's reasoning is pretty neat. Throwing out shallow ideas without further explaination than saying "it's totally doable" doesn't solve the case.
Just to bring you back to reality, we have 1 balancer, Mecha Mario, which is also a tester/AK/Mod/Bug Tracker/... and list goes on.

I would say there are some priorities to deal with before cluttering the game with any new content. Like balancing Mercenary class, and also adding underdog mode to both Jugg/2vs2.

As to suggest "starting up from 0", I don't think the devs are really interested in this, and coming here suggesting that would be a waste of time really.

Just to add up some mathematics here. A skill tree with 4 tiers and 3 columns, in other words 12 different skills, using a little bit of "probability", if you ever came across that in your math class, that's if you studied math.
12! or "Factorial 12" = 479 001 600. Yes, that's 479 million possibilites you can have with 12 different skills placed in 1 skill tree. With that being said, I'm quite sure every 3 days a new "OP" build will show up and require some balancing. The thing is, players will be frustrated that their builds will get nerfed each time they find a working one, and also other players will be frustrated because everytime they log in, they find a different OP build. It would be pretty chaotic.
And to add up to a little bit of that, the way skills are placed in the skill tree also affects balance, hence why skill trees of different classes were tweaked more than once, with 479 million possibilites, it would be a never ending pain for our friend Mecha Mario.

No wonder that in all games, even with tens/hundreds of testers, they use pre-chosen skill trees, that you unlock after each level, to avoid such numbers ofcourse.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 5/5/2016 23:01:24 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 15
5/6/2016 4:31:06   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 I'm pretty sure I'm understanding what you're saying right so you don't need to clarify. I think you're misinterpreting me.

While at the very raw core I am saying that it's too much work, it's more of the amount of benefit gained from the amount of work that needs to be put in isn't enough to make me inclined to support it. This is just my viewpoint so if you disagree I understand but my speculation is what decides what suggestions I support or don't support.

I personally can't see a way to fix the problem I have with it aside from just reworking the actual base concept of the suggestion, which is why I haven't provided any alternative yet.

Epic  Post #: 16
5/6/2016 12:35:46   
Xendran
Member

quote:

No wonder that in all games, even with tens/hundreds of testers, they use pre-chosen skill trees, that you unlock after each level, to avoid such numbers ofcourse.


This is completely untrue, and not only is it untrue but the entire card game genre is the antithesis of this statement.
It's fine to disagree with a decision, discuss the flaws in the decision and be critical, but it is not okay to use blatantly false information to make another person feel worse about their suggestion.

One of the most successful free to play games in history, Path of Exile, is completely centered around the idea of endless customization with nothing set in stone.
Then there are classic examples like Final Fantasy 7's Materia system and Final Fantasy X's Sphere Grid and Expert Sphere Grid.
There are plenty of great games that have incomprehensibly large numbers of possible combinations of skills and gear.

Obviously I'm not saying ED needs to be any one of these games, but there are many immensely successful games out there that do not use preselected skill trees, and often have skills themselves not be predetermined and modifiable with different attributes like we see in Path of Exile and Final Fantasy 7.

In regards to the suggestion, while it is unrefined I believe the core of the idea has potential which is to improve variety by allowing more control over skill trees, and more importantly, increasing the number of possible skill loadouts to increase available build counts.
This idea is nowhere near as fundamentally flawed as a lot of you guys seem to believe it is. All of the claims about balance make sense but only within the current context of ED, and we know the current context of ED is broken as is.
While one class with all skills would cause a very unfavorable meta and stagnation, multiple classes with skill trees comprised of a selection of both exclusive and non-exclusive skills to choose from can work extremely well.

The main issue that seems to come up here is the extent to which this goes.
Naturally, this would be completely broken if you could put any skill anywhere. If skills are restricted in some way however, this can be mitigated (for example being able to have a certain number of class skills, a certain number of generic skills, and one ultimate).
What that restriction could be is obviously something that would need to be figured out, but my main point here is that while I agree that this idea as is at face value would not work for EpicDuel it's not coming from a fundamentally flawed concept. The problems that would arise from customizable classes using skills as they exist are because of the way ED is designed, not because the entire concept is flawed.

Games can absolutely be designed with skills that function and multiply with each other correctly without needing to test every possible combination.
It is 100% feasible (and i have done this myself in my own game) to create a model with skills that follow a strict standard of power and cost, taking builds into account and using it as an extremely solid foundation.
By using this strict ruleset, the vast majority of skills do not cause situations where the power curve is impacted too extremely. The ones that do become very obvious and are much easier to adjust because of this.

If you design your system like this, then making classes into ones like the one suggested here that can choose what skills to have on the skill tree would actually be a great way to introduce additional character building.
This also allows you to add new skills without overwriting existing skills or changing the size of skill trees, or being forced to delegate it to a core (or even more extreme, having to add an entire new class).

< Message edited by Xendran -- 5/6/2016 12:47:55 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 17
5/6/2016 13:02:22   
Lord Machaar
Member

quote:

This is completely untrue, and not only is it untrue but the entire card game genre is the antithesis of this statement.
It's fine to disagree with a decision, discuss the flaws in the decision and be critical, but it is not okay to use blatantly false information to make another person feel worse about their suggestion.

A something to not misunderstand here is, in ED there are pre-selected skill trees, but there are also free-selected cores, in fact, there are endless combinations of cores (including Bots' specials).
To bring this down to the game we are playing, which is ED, you can come up with cores combination of your choice, OP ones sometimes like;
- Azrael's Anguish's will.
- Pyro Fly's Special.
- Hazmat Suit's active core.
- Frost shards.
- Aux core of your own.
This is a cores combination in ED, highly effective when used with high dex TMs (Especially when overload improved with dex).

Ofcourse, there aren't restrictions when it comes to choosing the cores you want to play with, thus creating endless possibilities. And that's the devs' main idea, create diversity with cores.
Sadly that wasn't the case because cores are hard to be made, therefore, there are currently enough cores to give the players a vast list of suggestions, and deadly combinations to come up with. That also meant the devs kinda didn't have to worry about balancing cores except Azrael's Anguish's Will. Which is just 1 core, and made devs and the community suffer. Letting players customize a whole skill tree would be pretty chaotic when they can't even balance legendary system or mercenary class, or even jugg battle mode, heck even wars.

I played LoL as well, has pretty same concept, many heroes with preselected attacks, but you get to choose your items (Speed up things and whatnot.
Same goes for most FPS games I played. There are classes, hunters, mercenaries and whatnot. But in the end you can customize your weapons.
You played Final Fantasy 7, a pretty old game, well I played Final Fantasy 13 (or 11 can't remember), and it pretty much had preselected skill trees (Sort of galaxies thingy that you unlock, a very good way to represent skill trees, wonderful game).

So I think the idea is clear here. Devs of most games allow players to customize their weapons, but with a very short amount of possibilities (Ofcourse except big games unlike ED). But they keep massive class builds preselected. For a good reason.

Ofcourse when I said "all games", I meant all games that I played, and most famous ones. Ofcourse I didn't meant "all games that have ever been created since now", because I really didn't play all of them. I wish I did tho.

quote:

The main issue that seems to come up here is the extent to which this goes.
Naturally, this would be completely broken if you could put any skill anywhere. If skills are restricted in some way however, this can be mitigated (for example being able to have a certain number of class skills, a certain number of generic skills, and one ultimate).
What that restriction could be is obviously something that would need to be figured out, but my main point here is that while I agree that this idea as is at face value would not work for EpicDuel it's not coming from a fundamentally flawed concept. The problems that would arise from customizable classes using skills as they exist are because of the way ED is designed, not because the entire concept is flawed.

We will start adding restrictions here and there, day after day, until we come back to the original ED, that is full of restrictions.

quote:

This idea is nowhere near as fundamentally flawed as a lot of you guys seem to believe it is. All of the claims about balance make sense but only within the current context of ED, and we know the current context of ED is broken as is
.
I'm replying while keeping in mind the current state of ED (If you haven't read what NW said). We can't really lie to the guy and tell him, this suggestion will be implemented, it never will. With 1 balancer that is also doing a lot of things, I doubt such thing is doable. Ofcourse, it can be tweaked but when we speak about a total revamp of the game. Why not creating a new one? That way devs can start up from the bottom and perfect every single aspect of the game. Rather than cluttering an already dead/broken game with much more complicated ideas and suggestions.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 5/6/2016 13:05:00 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 18
5/6/2016 14:52:52   
Xendran
Member

The main point of the post is not that the suggestion can work as is, nor that even custom skill trees can work in EpicDuel at all in its current form.
It's that the reasoning you gave behind your criticism is not what actually causes this idea to not work. It's not the number of available combos that would be the issue, but rather that ED does not have skills that are designed to be arbitrarily mixed with each other. This is a completely valid point and is a totally accurate argument against implementing this kind of system in the current state of the game.
I just don't want other ideas, or potential revisions of this idea by the author to be changed in a way that addresses something that isn't actually what makes the system not work.


In regards to games played, I've played more than just FF7 you know. I have played many a game in my time, including that whole series (mainline titles). There are so many games out there that have customizable skill trees, and in depth character customization. If you look, you shall find.
You also selectively chose to not address the fact that card games are an entire genre built on this customization. I'm sure you've heard of Hearthstone.
Using the slippery slope fallacy of eventually going back to the original ED is exactly that: A logical fallacy. It's not a valid point. If you have legitimate issues with restrictions that is fine and I'm glad to hear any feedback about it, but your specific example is not actually an argument for or against anything.

You're very correct about the system not working in ED right now, and I agree with you about thinking about ED in it's current state (though I also believe we should be both thinking about it's current state and future state, with various suggestions tuned for each so the developers have a good pool of feasible ideas for now and bigger future ideas for later. Knowing the true root cause of the flaw in the system is very important though. The balance is something that could be managed by a very small team assuming it was built from the ground up, but as is the game does not support it.

I agree with you, I don't support this system for the current version of ED. A new version sure, but not this one.

@GodOfTechno below: I don't think Machaar is intending to troll you. While some of the comments may not seem constructive to you, everything has to be taken in context. Many of the quotes you provided are actually part of a larger post that does contain feedback where he explains his reasoning behind his thoughts.



You can add it if you wish, but regardless the restriction system only allows closer curating of builds and doesn't fix the underlying issue of ED not being designed in a way that allows arbitrary skill combinations to be balanced even with restrictions.
That suggestion still only works if the system is designed to handle it.

Posts merged ~Battle Elf

< Message edited by Battle Elf -- 5/6/2016 15:35:20 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 19
5/6/2016 15:22:47   
  Battle Elf
has ten 1v1 wins


 Unfortunately, this thread has veered off from it's original topic.

When discussing ideas and suggestions, you are all expected to act in a calm and respectful manner. Posts that serve to inflame other users will be removed. Users that can not abide by these rules will suffer disciplinary action.

If you have an issue with how another user is behaving, please PM myself or Forum Staff member. Even though many of us are busy with jobs, school, or other responsibilities, we'll try our best to resolve your issue as quickly as possible.

Due to off-topic posting, this thread has been locked.

Thanks,
Battle Elf
AE Forum Moderator

< Message edited by Battle Elf -- 5/6/2016 15:44:12 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 20
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