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Bloodmage vs super high energy (smaller CAP?)

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12/30/2016 17:10:19   
santonik
Member

Bloodmage vs super high energy.


I dont know to you. What i have figured those high energy players. They have very high underdog against parasite.


What i want is smaller cap to parasite.


think this situation.

merc whit 1384 energy vs bloodmage whit parasite.


I can say this. Bloodmage get very easyly over 550 energy and destoy about 300 energy in 1 move. parasite % damage is huge broblem. this why we need cap against parasite. i know there is it. 1 turn booldmage get 500energy against boss (IIRC). What if that cap lowering something 200~250 energy.

I really think high energy players can play counter play about this system. today version not not allow counter play.

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Epic  Post #: 1
12/30/2016 18:40:05   
.Lord Ginger.
Member

Not supported. A main reason of Blood Mage is to basically Destroy those builds, so hell no.
AQW Epic  Post #: 2
12/30/2016 18:46:49   
santonik
Member

You just dont like if parasite is weaken littlebit? (only cap) It is same power all builds, expect it is no more overpower agains all high energy players.
Epic  Post #: 3
12/30/2016 18:52:10   
Mother1
Member

I don't support this change for several reasons.

1) The nerf to NPC ranks.

These were nerfed for no good reason which in turn indirectly buffed NPC bosses especially the legendary ones. The last thing BM needs is a nerf like this which in turn would make fighting these bosses even harder due to needing to drain out their energy in order to beat them.

2) Prior to this high energy builds like this one didn't have a good counter to them.

Before energy parasite while there was still high tech EMP BH and CH (Now only CH due to BH getting static grenade in it's place) even this couldn't counter this build effectively. In fact the only class that can counter them effectively is BM and nerfing the only good counter to said build. Plus since the importance on energy is still too much due to not fixing said problem this will not only give BM a nerf they don't need (seeing as they already have issues due to the energy meta) but make high energy builds become a possible issue.

I could somewhat understand if all the classes could effectively counter this build, but seeing as it is only BM that can do this I can't agree with it.
Epic  Post #: 4
12/30/2016 19:22:22   
santonik
Member

quote:

1) The nerf to NPC ranks.

These were nerfed for no good reason which in turn indirectly buffed NPC bosses especially the legendary ones. The last thing BM needs is a nerf like this which in turn would make fighting these bosses even harder due to needing to drain out their energy in order to beat them.

1vs1 is much important than any boss in game. Even after that nerf. what i have suggestion. bloodmage can get 400~500 energy. in 2 turn. today version it get 500 energy 1 turn. i think it isnt effect boss figth that much. If boss is low energy. bloodmage get SAME energy what it get todays version. only cap is lowered. (it need 1vs1)


quote:

2) Prior to this high energy builds like this one didn't have a good counter to them.

Parasite is extreme skill against all high energy players. Because parasite is % damage. This is huge broplem. What i have experienced those high energy vs parasite. i can tell this. if bloodmage player doing mistake it is dead.
NOTE bloodmage need doing that mistake.
otherways high energy player is 100% dead. high energy players motto is. (No energy = no fun)


quote:

Before energy parasite while there was still high tech EMP BH and CH (Now only CH due to BH getting static grenade in it's place) even this couldn't counter this build effectively. In fact the only class that can counter them effectively is BM and nerfing the only good counter to said build. Plus since the importance on energy is still too much due to not fixing said problem this will not only give BM a nerf they don't need (seeing as they already have issues due to the energy meta) but make high energy builds become a possible issue.

Actually EMP grenade need nerf littlebit. over -500 energy damage is pretty strong. every 4 turn. it is good if that EMP grenade doing about -400 energy damage. still effective and allow better change to counter those cyberhunters. Cyber hunter canget every 3 turn (about) 250~270 energy.
Boyntyhunter need that nerf (static grenade). It is very powerful even is it 10 lvl. IIRC 273 is energy damage whit out support. Whit support is rising easyly over -400 energy damage. Today version is good balance at least that energy damage. (MAYBE) energy gaining can get little bit buff.

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Energy META is own issues. Too many think only 1 skill. It need to think all energy skills/cores.

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< Message edited by santonik -- 12/30/2016 19:26:24 >
Epic  Post #: 5
12/30/2016 19:32:07   
Mr.Pablo Jr.
Member

Are you posting this because you use a high energy build? Every build has its own weakness and it seems high energy builds can be countered by EMP and Parasite; deal with it...
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 6
12/30/2016 19:53:57   
santonik
Member

quote:

Are you posting this because you use a high energy build?

It is not secret. i playing many builds. even high energy. I make my own build. Sometimes pretty dummy. Because i can test balance in this ways.


quote:

Every build has its own weakness and it seems high energy builds can be countered by EMP and Parasite; deal with it...

What about those focus builds. they can countered all builds in the game. (in theory) high energy builds is limited that counter playing.
Every build need weakness. Every player knowing that. 1 EMP can shudown most builds. wait 3 turn more coming another EMP grenade. game over.
1 parasite destroy all high energy player. (parasite need put rigth time)
Yes high energy player can counter IF cyberhunter/bloodmage doing mistake/s. pretty rare if i saying. This mean no energy controll at all agaisnt high energy player.
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Epic  Post #: 7
12/30/2016 23:21:58   
Mr.Pablo Jr.
Member

A good focus build averages around 80%; a great focus build averages 85%. While some builds are better than others, every build in ED can be countered atm. It could just be that high energy is a bad build. Some builds just plain suck and I don't think nerfing another skill just to make a bad build suck a little less is the way to go. If you think high energy isn't a bad build, maybe you should try a different strategy against blood mages and cyber hunters. If you keep losing against them, but you're close, it's your strategy. If you keep getting destroyed by them, your build probably sucks.

< Message edited by Mr.Pablo Jr. -- 12/30/2016 23:23:56 >
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 8
12/30/2016 23:30:26   
NDB
Member

I actually support this idea but not necessary think high energy builds need an edge. But simply because energy parasite is way to variable of a skill compared to all of the other energy manipulation skills. In most cases it is highly unreliable and takes away/grants much less total energy than most other skills. And then there is the small percentage of the time when it steals an insane amount against high energy builds. Therefore in addition to perhaps buffing the energy parasite percentage by a bit, both a maximum and a higher minimum should be added to the skill to make it more reliable to use without becoming unreasonably powerful against high energy builds.
Epic  Post #: 9
12/31/2016 1:16:46   
Mr.Pablo Jr.
Member

@NDB

I think Parasite's unreliability is an important part of the skill - it has the potential to be the best energy gain/drain skill, but at the same time, it can also be one of the most useless energy skills. IMO, the way to fix Parasite is to increase its cooldown since the skill is two-turns and most people use their own energy skill after those two turns. With a three-turn cooldown, opponents basically have to use their energy right after they regain it or risk having it stolen again. By increasing cooldown to four turns, there is a bit of a gap for others to plan on how they use their energy before Parasite is initiated again.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 10
12/31/2016 2:06:50   
NDB
Member

quote:

I think Parasite's unreliability is an important part of the skill

Please elaborate. The way I see it, it makes it a little more interesting, unique, and perhaps slightly more strategic than other energy manipulation skills but that's about it. I was simply suggesting to tone it down a bit and make it more stable of a skill to use because this unreliability is what is making it such a weak competitor with other energy manipulation skills. Again, please elaborate.
quote:

By increasing cooldown to four turns, there is a bit of a gap for others to plan on how they use their energy before Parasite is initiated again.

I think most people will agree with me that energy parasite does not exactly need a big nerf as it is. Having it have a 3 turn cooldown was most likely to prevent all energy manipulation skills from having a 4 turn cycle, like static charge. It mixes things up so that that people aren't just going back and forth come every fourth turn.
Epic  Post #: 11
12/31/2016 10:47:35   
Stonehawk
Member

Energy parasite is fine. You can predict when energy is going to be stolen, and choose to use all energy or drain it right after the second parasite turn. In fact, I counter parasite really easily because it's too predictable, unlike other energy manipulating skills. Sometimes I even think they need a buff because they can't generate energy as fast as the others.

If you use high energy, you can regain/steal the energy right after the effect is gone and he has 1 turn without draining energy, it's when you can actually use your energy making the BM unable to regain his energy again. No, it's not OP. Sometimes it's really sad and it's one of the reasons I don't think of being a BM again.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 12
12/31/2016 12:19:09   
NDB
Member

^That sums the situation up pretty well.
Epic  Post #: 13
12/31/2016 16:27:36   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 My main problem with parasite is that it completely destroys high-energy builds if they were actually usable. The skill itself shuts off some build diversity because trying to use a high energy build and then getting matched against a BM is basically a 0-100 matchup if you're reliant on that large energy pool.

Downtime on the skill used to only be 1 turn which was absurd, now it's 2 turns, but honestly I'd like it to be 3 turns just so that the skill itself doesn't shut down high energy builds at all. In previous phases (which I understand also means previous metas where builds themselves were just entirely different in nature), there were some really janky high-energy builds that were fun, not too strong, but still usable and made the game really enjoyable. It would be nice to be able to at least experiment with them, knowing that I don't instantly lose against a BM when I play with that build.
Epic  Post #: 14
12/31/2016 16:58:20   
nowras
Member

I'd support the less cap if there's a limit to the minimum energy you gain from parasite. The min energy should always be 75 per turn even if the opponent's energy is zero. Parasite is a weak skill overall compared to the other energy skills in 1v1; it's only good against high energy builds. So, in conclusion, such decisions shall not be made without asking the top class players who know the game better than anyone else. And I, as a top class player whose ideas/predictions always saw the real future, would support this suggestion if what I suggested is implemented as well.

@Shego The best class for L-Bosses is TLM and not BM. Those who use BM to fight L-Bosses will only be able to defeat Matrix and LGOW while TLM can defeat every single boss.

@EP
High energy builds work even against BM. I proved that when I created the BH support Massacre build with 930 energy (910 now). Did I lose to BM? No, I even wrecked them that's because I surpassed my own limitations and created the perfect build with the perfect strategy. Unfortunately, the devs, once again, killed build diversity by nerfing BH. The devs would never understand that the key to nerfing a build, isn't nerfing it. It's buffing other skills/builds that are supposed to counter said build. If the devs keep nerfing, they will end up no where but killing the build diversity. The devs should hire "Guest Balancers" who should be chosen by the players themselves. The guest balancers would need to be high ranked, med ranked, and low ranked players. Everyone of them should have a low level alt that they play on. Though, all of their balance suggestions will be posted on the forums before being applied. If it's supported by some "Top Class Players" then it shall be implemented. Listening to non-Top-Class-Players will just throw this game into it's fated destruction even faster. If the devs want to fix the game, they should hire these top-class-players who are active and did play during the duration of all of Omega and it would be better if they did play in the old phases.

< Message edited by nowras -- 12/31/2016 17:14:49 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 15
12/31/2016 17:22:35   
Mother1
Member

Nowras

Problem here is that they listen to the people who tend to complain about what wreaks them (I have been guilty of this at times) or ask for certain things which is why certain things happen. For example we had one person complaining and moaning for years on end about how they wanted old rares back for the reason of wanting the few cores that were rare, which was why we got the shops that sells all the cores (minus 5 seeing as stun shot was never returned along with the delta and omega promo cores seeing as they were phase promo's)

Then we had many people griping about how unfair ranks were which ended up getting them nerfed including the ones no one complained about (the NPC ones) while not doing anything about the underdog issue that made high rank players ironically face the exact same issue that low ranked players complained about but on a worse scale (seeing as underdog buffs everything where as ranks give only flat bonus)

Also I know that TLM is the best class for fighting all the bosses, but that still doesn't change the fact that BM while not being able to fight all of the bosses can still fight a few of them which in turn can save players a class change just for fighting said bosses. I remember people complaining about how all the classes should be able to beat all the bosses and while that still isn't happening as of yet this nerf only makes that issue worse.

Edit

Also being high ranked no offense doesn't mean too much any more due to

1) Botting
2) a person who is level 40 with 80 ranks for example could be a low level hero or warlord (due to NPC wins) while someone without ranks could be a Emperor or Grand Emperor due to the way the level curve was in the past.

In other words while for some this would be in fact true for others they could just be someone who NPC's Bot's or something else a lot.

< Message edited by Mother1 -- 12/31/2016 17:26:15 >
Epic  Post #: 16
12/31/2016 18:43:34   
nowras
Member

quote:

Also being high ranked no offense doesn't mean too much any more due to

1) Botting
2) a person who is level 40 with 80 ranks for example could be a low level hero or warlord (due to NPC wins) while someone without ranks could be a Emperor or Grand Emperor due to the way the level curve was in the past.

In other words while for some this would be in fact true for others they could just be someone who NPC's Bot's or something else a lot.

That wasn't my intention. You can reread what I said.
quote:

guest balancers would need to be high ranked, med ranked, and low ranked players.

As you can see here, I meant that they should choose guest balancers from all rank ranges. This is to ensure that the team is NOT biased.
I'm saying this because their current balancing team has zero high ranked players, that's why ranks received a nerf instead of a buff (the rank 49 issue). It was really funny when they said that 10 ranks are more powerful than 1 level. They probably think that 1 level is just 4 stats and/or "only" a buff of 10 def/resis. They, because of how inexperieced they are, didn't think about the other advantages a level gives (the more weapon damage, armor defense and weapon stats.) If the ED team stays biased this way, the game is going downhill.
AQW Epic  Post #: 17
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