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Sidearms back to Strength + Balance

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9/5/2018 19:18:31   
.Lord Ginger.
Member

Pretty Self Explanatory

Kartherax is a really broken robot and destroys strength builds, even with a nerf it'll still be good.

Strength is only "good" if you spam the crud out of it.

Strength with guns can allow strength to make a more balanced build and not have to worry about relying on just a primary and getting creamed without it.

That being said, intimidate with 4 turns totally smears any str build if they don't really have a ridiculous amount of strength which is kind of stupid, but that's how strength builds kind of have to be right now which is a part of having guns being dex.

Y'all are probably saying how this would make str OP...

Focus builds - can finally be focus builds instead of tech builds, to where we have a decent amount of HP, we can get a first turn most of the time, decent robot damage, and we could use some strength but still make it a focus build as well as some current skills.

Blood Mage - Has intimidate with 4 turns and it would affect the gun
Merc - Same thing
BH - Has a good smoke - just make Static back to tech like it used to be where it can be good for focus - and it also has massacre (str does too but currently is a supp requirement)
CH - has a good malf with a decent amount of support and a support build can probably work (after malf gets back to normal)

TLM - Frenzy back to 10% defense ignore... What else? I mean I think it could be okay to be honest... especially with a buff to poison grenade

TM - Better Bolt and Supercharge because those got killed again

I really recommend this though to be completely honest...


Focus builds could be focus builds again

Broken Robots like Kartherax wouldn't be nearly as broken

We could also buff aux and Robot again a bit if needed but I'd wait for that.


Support builds - Eh. More damage possibly to aux and multi (for merc and TLM)

Thing is that there are so many different builds and people honestly want their 90% win record - so where a balance where a lotta builds beat other builds won't make those people happy xD
AQW Epic  Post #: 1
9/7/2018 13:37:16   
Mother1
Member

Actually that was the reason why sidearms were taken away from strength because when strength has sidearms they were just that OP. That was why we got the Kartherax bot in the first place because strength was running rampant and it was destroying variety. It was also why Sidearms went to dex seeing as the Kartherax wasn't enough to curve the tide either.

Placing sidearms back to strength will just throw us back to that age of strength running rampant again, not to mention for anyone who is trying to beat the legendary bosses give them a nice indirect buff seeing as every single legendary boss has high strength.
Epic  Post #: 2
9/7/2018 13:51:12   
.Lord Ginger.
Member

Actually strength wasn’t really in a rampage, people were just bad, a lot for people were angry at the bogus strength nerf.

There’s a thing called nerfing strength and keeping sidearm as strength which is what they shoulda done if it was that bad

Sidearms away from strength killed strength which is really stupid.

And with legendary bosses - you know how easy of a fix these things are so please stop bringing up trivial things. Same with you and your “don’t forget about whiteout” every time something is brought up about rearranging skills.

Kartherax itself more than turned the tide on strength, you’re really funny. It actually killed it in general, and sidearms to dex doubly made it trash.

Strength won’t be good unless guns are back to strength because sorry, guns to dex killed it. People don’t have balanced strength builds now because he guns aren’t worth it anymore like they used to be. Older builds with more dex would block those builds now, but we won’t get that because focus builds don’t have long enough battles with that much dex anymore, or ninja reflexes.

Should guns be wth strength? Yeah, of course.

People who think some things are busted are hilarious because if you look st older phases when gun was strength, it wasn’t always OP now was it?

No :)



< Message edited by .Lord Ginger. -- 9/7/2018 13:55:07 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 3
9/7/2018 15:11:45   
Mother1
Member

Strength had it's moments of being OP be it class or as a whole. When omega started Strength got an indirect buff due to the loss of enhancements which some used as defensive stats. It was around this time that a lot of players went Bounty/Cyber hunter due to the passive shadow arts increasing block chance in the hope of it being a luck base counter. Before this strength blood mage before this was also OP back in delta for quite a few months and for a period of time was about 70 - 75 percent of the opponents I battled back then when I played 1 vs 1. Eventually they got 2 nerfs in the form of losing Beserker for Bludegon and then when this wasn't enough had it's fireball nerfed in the form of having it work with every 4 strength instead of every 3. (Ironically this change while causing Blood mages to finally get off the strength builds and use other builds also in turn destroyed fireball since it wasn't used much due to said change.)

I could go on, but my point is that strength be it overall or a class had it's moments of being too strong and being noticed by the masses. Otherwise the Karthax (AKA the strength destroyer) would have never been created as a band aid/ poor at best solution for strength *yes I agree the bot was a bad solution since an item that you have to pay for and/or wait a year to get in order to overcome a balance issue is never a good idea as well as an item in general should be needed to overcome an OP/Strong build. However this robot only became too much of an issue when sidearms were removed from strength since prior to the change I still saw strength builds (at least the players who were smart playing them) get around this with the sidearms still under strength.

But a bogus strength nerf? it was said nerf that got people using other builds and variety (for a certain period of time) came back. Prior to the nerf 80 - 85% of all the fights people battle were against strength builds with very little variety between them. I also remember the comments and many players were happy when it happened due to finally seeing a break in the strength builds /strength build tanks due to Strength dominating strongly at the time.

But before I finish I have to ask do you have a screen shot of a balanced strength build? While the few times I used strength builds I made my a focus 2 - 3 build while using strength myself I never seen anyone use anything outside of the common high HP strength spam, or the High HP Strength spam with moderately high dex moderate at best tech and base support.

< Message edited by Mother1 -- 9/7/2018 15:13:06 >
Epic  Post #: 4
9/7/2018 15:28:55   
Grandma
Member

I suggested a while ago that the ED team should introduce a 2nd sidearm slot - one for dex and a new one for str.

I think moving sidearm dmg to str would be a nice idea anyway since it's less big dmg for tank builds.


< Message edited by Grandma -- 9/7/2018 15:31:53 >
Epic  Post #: 5
9/7/2018 16:18:56   
.Lord Ginger.
Member

There shouldn’t be a second slot. And if you were here in older phases you’d know this is how it was originally

Str build:

1700
630
50+35
50+35
41+14
17

Old str build BM:
1312
630
50+35
59+35
41+14
42

There. That’s balanced and was an old build. You know people also used stats for strength too...

Str wasn’t always broken, sure it had times where it was good, obviously (sometimes OP), duh, but there’s other was to make str not broken then to screwing with a gun change.

It’s good when Karth doesn’t completely ruin a build like you said str with sidearm didn’t. (It did but if what you say you think is true, then I’m glad because Karth now demolishes things)

Was the str nerf bogus?

Yeah I think so.

Nerf primary, kartherax, nerf bludgeon, change guns to dex, change skills to have to be used with a club because of stat points.

Yeah I say the nerf was bogus.

Because this killed str.

I can see some small nerfs.

Focus is my favorite kind of build but I mean if I want a str build it should be good.
You act like focus builds have much variety too, which they don’t really. Like 900-1000 hp with the same stats and almost same skill points.
Yeah this helped because of class identity loss but I mean...
Variety? Ehh. I still enjoyed my focus build with a really nice win % when str was “OP”
Str was good and it beat a lot but for real, all those nerfs were just stupid.

Shoulda just brought back agility tbh, no need for all these nerfs and then a game breaking robot.
It’s like pyro that takes your energy skill every time but for a str build.

Like honesty str is trash... and even that str Tm build that was the only “viable” str build wasn’t that good either.

I think anyone with a brain wants any spam build to die because a spam build that works is pretty stupid.

< Message edited by .Lord Ginger. -- 9/7/2018 17:55:24 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 6
9/8/2018 3:57:08   
melinalowks
Member

I agree that Sidearm should scale with strength and agree with the balance suggestion.

I think I want to get my popcorn ready and watch the argument between Lord Ginger and Mother1 since I bet it will get intense
Post #: 7
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