Incentives For Playing Till The End In Team Battles (Full Version)

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He Who Lurks -> Incentives For Playing Till The End In Team Battles (2/17/2013 21:17:15)

I'm going to cut straight to the chase here. Players need incentives so that they're willing to stay and fight till the end of team battles. I believe a great incentive would be extra credits based on the chain of 2vs2 match you've won. For example, if you were to win 10 times in a row within team battles, you should be eligible for(a lightly made up reward) 100 credits and 20 xp. However, if you happen to leave in the middle of a match, this chain would be broken. Chains continue whether or not you lose, they're only broken when you leave a match.



ND Mallet -> RE: Incentives For Playing Till The End In Team Battles (2/17/2013 21:22:25)

Perhaps if the chain was continued whether you won or not, rather than just winning, it would work better. The main reason people leave intentionally is either trolling or they feel they won't win. Asking them to stay for a loss they can't avoid, just so they don't break a chain which will give only a slight boost at best doesn't seem to be enticing to me.



He Who Lurks -> RE: Incentives For Playing Till The End In Team Battles (2/17/2013 21:33:45)

The numbers were rudimentary and were just created without any much thought actually. How much of an increase would be enticing enough to stay for a loss? Also ND, please remember that regardless or not you leave a match you're still stuck with a loss.



Assassin01 -> RE: Incentives For Playing Till The End In Team Battles (2/17/2013 22:57:23)

I like this concept. Supported.



TRizZzCENTRINO -> RE: Incentives For Playing Till The End In Team Battles (2/17/2013 23:22:35)

what about bots and trolls? they just pop in and make their partner lose the battle, they would abuse this big time, unless like ND said it should only count towards the wins, if it also count towards the losses then people wouldn't take 2v2 seriously since they get a huge reward for losing anyway. this would be abused big time.



Mother1 -> RE: Incentives For Playing Till The End In Team Battles (2/17/2013 23:34:46)

Not supported since this would only promote trolls and bot builds.



Remorse -> RE: Incentives For Playing Till The End In Team Battles (2/17/2013 23:56:26)

I think the advantages, Discouraging leaving games despite your odds.

Outweighs the disadvantages, may encouraging botting if you get slightly more credits even if you lose.


So I support!


P.S I think this is one of the most creative and simple yet effective solution I have seen for stopping people leaving games in 2v2 matches,

Great thinking , he who lurks.



TRizZzCENTRINO -> RE: Incentives For Playing Till The End In Team Battles (2/18/2013 0:16:11)

@above no, it is creative but it is not helpful.
it would stop people from leaving but it would not stop people from getting disconnections, it would just promote those that get in 2v2 for a quick loss while gaining more credits than winning, the more they lose the more they gain.



Remorse -> RE: Incentives For Playing Till The End In Team Battles (2/18/2013 0:21:06)

quote:

it would stop people from leaving but it would not stop people from getting disconnections


Leaving IS disconnecting, if they dont play to the end then they dont get a lose bonus.

And if they try to make it a quick lose, they still have to wait it out until their partner dies or they won't get it.


Plus the reward will never be something so good it's worth abusing for anyway.




PLUS when did anyone ever say losing would give more credits then winning....

Seems to me you are just putting your disliking of this idea to make up figures that prove yourself right.


Obviously it would be made so you cant get more credits for losing...

The figures mean nothing its the concept, and the concept is good.



Mother1 -> RE: Incentives For Playing Till The End In Team Battles (2/18/2013 0:23:27)

@ remorse

What about botters and trolls? Botters play for loss credits, and Trolls don't care. Why should we have something in play that rewards these kinds of people since the more they lose the more they would gain? It would only promote these players to play in two vs two more.



Remorse -> RE: Incentives For Playing Till The End In Team Battles (2/18/2013 0:26:04)

GUYS AGAIN ITS THE CONCEPT,


First thing that comes to my head they could do to make this concept to work without being abused by trolls and bots is to only reward the side that wins with the chain bonus HOWEVER the chain is not broken from losing, only leaving.


SEE how easy that was?

Sometimes just support the concept an assume the little details are worked out.



TRizZzCENTRINO -> RE: Incentives For Playing Till The End In Team Battles (2/18/2013 1:30:19)

@above
quote:

Perhaps if the chain was continued whether you won or not, rather than just winning, it would work better.

it was ND's idea to fix it.

quote:

Leaving IS disconnecting, if they dont play to the end then they dont get a lose bonus.

i mean the disconnections you have no control over, i get disconnections once in a while and so do lots of other players who didn't mean to leave but it just happens.

it is best to not get this idea in since it won't be fair for alot of people who gets disconnected without them having a choice on it.



The Incredible Hulk -> RE: Incentives For Playing Till The End In Team Battles (2/18/2013 1:40:00)

Supported


So many people leave battle in 2v2 especially.

I'll do anything for those noobs/trollers to leave battle.

Everyday 6 times a day, someone has to leave......

This can be a good idea



Remorse -> RE: Incentives For Playing Till The End In Team Battles (2/18/2013 3:03:23)

@ Trizz,

Actually he who lurks already said this in the original post
quote:

Chains continue whether or not you lose, they're only broken when you leave a match.


ND's fix was something he who lurks already pointed out,


What I was adding and what you clearly didn't get up to reading or figuring out.

Was the fact that you only get the chain reward bonus from WINNING, But as He who lurks AND. ND pointed out losing does not break the chain.

This way troll's and bots gain no advantage from stacking up constant loses, since you need t win to get the bonus.

Perhaps he who lurks was implying this from the start, but his description may have mislead a few people into thinking loses give a reward or loses break the chain, in which case neither is true.



Mother1 -> RE: Incentives For Playing Till The End In Team Battles (2/18/2013 3:30:09)

@ remorse

The system can't tell the difference between a runner disconnect and a genuine disconnect. Anyone who would get disconnected with no fault of their own will lose their chain due to no fault of their own. It would still count as them leaving even if they get disconnect by bad internet connection. This would punish those kinds of players and it wouldn't be fair to them in the least. That is what trizz was talking about.




TRizZzCENTRINO -> RE: Incentives For Playing Till The End In Team Battles (2/18/2013 4:12:28)

@above yup, its about fairness



Remorse -> RE: Incentives For Playing Till The End In Team Battles (2/18/2013 4:35:31)

At the same time it's not fair to your partner by playing team battles with dodgy internet,

Their is definitely two sides to the story, Yes people with worse internet would miss out on a BONUS, but it is only a SMALL credit bonus, it should never ever be something that is something so good that it's unfair to the players with bad internet, It should be just enough to stop people refreshing because they had a bad match make.



What is worse?

Missing out on a small chain bonus only some of the time because of bad internet,


OR


Getting a lose, and a lot less credits (more then the bonus) because your partner had bad internet.






Sometimes new ideas like this, soften issues quite well but raise smaller ones themselves,

Not supporting them because of the smaller issues they leave in their place, is completely anti-progressive.



TRizZzCENTRINO -> RE: Incentives For Playing Till The End In Team Battles (2/18/2013 4:58:00)

@above so you only get the bonus if you continue winning right? and it is to prevent people leaving knowing that they are guaranteed to lose because of their bad/weak partner, i don't see how it makes people not want to leave 2v2.

quote:

What is worse?

Missing out on a small chain bonus only some of the time because of bad internet,

and gaining a loss, its basically the same as staying in a battle that you know you cannot win except that you do not get the credit bonus.

quote:

Sometimes new ideas like this, soften issues quite well but raise smaller ones themselves,

Not supporting them because of the smaller issues they leave in their place, is completely anti-progressive.

says the one who wants skill cores to be visible because they don't like to guess, therefore taking the excitement out of battle -_-'
if this system is implemented then I'm sure many people will go into 2v2 with boring and plain OP builds, because they want win streaks and the bonus credit from it, the game would turnout boring again.



Remorse -> RE: Incentives For Playing Till The End In Team Battles (2/18/2013 5:31:37)

quote:

bove so you only get the bonus if you continue winning right? and it is to prevent people leaving knowing that they are guaranteed to lose because of their bad/weak partner, i don't see how it makes people not want to leave 2v2.


Yes you only get the bonus from winning, However you dont BREAK the chain from losing, leaving breaks the chain giving you no bonus when you win for a while.




quote:

says the one who wants skill cores to be visible because they don't like to guess, therefore taking the excitement out of battle -_-'
if this system is implemented then I'm sure many people will go into 2v2 with boring and plain OP builds, because they want win streaks and the bonus credit from it, the game would turnout boring again.


WOW really, you really wanna bring that up again....


We already came to an agreement that we both have different interpretations of what we find exciting in this game,


AT least I have the respect of not putting your opinion to shame each time we have a completely unrelated disagreement.

quote:

therefore taking the excitement out of battle -_-'


I have a completely opposite opinion you already know that, I think guessing is taking out the excitement of thinking of a strategy.

WHY would you bring this up when their is people who support both sides, and need I remind you just as many people supporting NON blind battles strongly if not more.






TRizZzCENTRINO -> RE: Incentives For Playing Till The End In Team Battles (2/18/2013 5:42:18)

@above atleast hidden skill cores benefits both sides, but this doesn't, like i said if this were to happen then people would go into 2v2 with all OP builds, it would ruin the fun because you get ganged up by strength or other stat abusers, i can imagine what is likely going to happen right now, and trust me its not a very pleasant sight.



Remorse -> RE: Incentives For Playing Till The End In Team Battles (2/18/2013 6:24:59)

How is this idea, effecting balance at all?

On that subject how does not seeing your opponents cores make STR builds weaker?

If anything they make STR builds stronger.



TRizZzCENTRINO -> RE: Incentives For Playing Till The End In Team Battles (2/18/2013 7:42:08)

quote:

How is this idea, effecting balance at all?

On that subject how does not seeing your opponents cores make STR builds weaker?

If anything they make STR builds stronger.

this idea is affecting another kind of balance, it would attract alot of stat abusers into 2v2.

and not seeing other's core doesn't make them stronger either.



He Who Lurks -> RE: Incentives For Playing Till The End In Team Battles (2/18/2013 8:52:47)

Okay, I've been reading through and I've realized that I wasn't clear enough on my idea.

#1: You don't gain an extra "link" to that chain when you lose, therefore you don't gain bonus credits when you lose.

#2: Remorse is correct, the idea that ND Mallet suggested was already presented in the opening post.

Now, I've seen the arguments that 2 members above have brought up and I must say they don't hold water. Regardless, whether or not this would give credits to the losing team, botters wouldn't be that much more apt to partake within 2vs2 because of a few more bonus credits they'd receive due to the fact that 2vs2 already gives credits and I have yet to see any "botters". The argument regarding players that disconnect often doesn't sway me from my idea at all. You're basically implying that just because a player has no control whether or not he disconnects, this idea is unfair? I've read your statements and so far you haven't explained how this idea is unfair. For an idea to be unfair you must provide evidence on such "unfairness" and you haven't explained what is unfair about this idea. I've seen the word "punish" being used for this system and in no way, shape, or form does this system punish players for disconnecting. The 2 arguments towards this suggestion can be related to an element with this game. That element would be varium. You could say "varium is unfair" but in the end, it fulfills its roles. One of them which is, allowing this game to prosper and grow. The very same reason I'm trying to pitch this idea to the developers.

The argument that "OP builds" would run amok within 2vs2 is ridiculous. This idea has absolutely no correlation to balance. It's as if you're saying that players aren't instinctively or progressively enhancing their builds at this moment. If so, what's stopping them? Your arguments are weak and nonsensical. You have no legitimate reason for why this shouldn't be applied to 2vs2. Realize that I'm not attacking your character, but rather your ridiculous, ideological statements.



Remorse -> RE: Incentives For Playing Till The End In Team Battles (2/18/2013 12:50:13)

^ Completely agree,


And out of all the ideas I see for trying to solve or lesson the problem of leavers in team battles, This is by far one of the best I have seen.


Due to it simplicity, and the fact it's using positive reinforcement.




DunkThatOreo -> RE: Incentives For Playing Till The End In Team Battles (2/18/2013 12:57:38)

Wow I was literally about to post something like this, SUPPORTED!!!!!!!



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