Numerous changes. To balance the game and inspire versatility. (Full Version)

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Xamurai -> Numerous changes. To balance the game and inspire versatility. (7/7/2014 7:34:41)

What is the current problem in the game? there is absolutely NO Versatility in builds Whatsoever
All builds consist of higher strength. And the people who try and use 5 focus or be creative get slaughtered.
6 main changes that would have a huge impact.

1~ Bring back Agility. Penalties for high HP. ALSO add an additional Agility penalty of decreasing primary and sidearm damage by 3% for every 250 HP over 1000.

2~ Nerf poison. Yes i know that poison was underused and highly situational. But it is now blatantly overpowered. 130 damage over 3 turns for 280 mana. With only a 2 turn cooldown. So i propose that poison is set to 110 over 3 turns with an MP cost of 300 + a cooldown of 4 turns. It is far to spamable as it currently is.

3~ Blood Commander and Energy Parasite. Again. @ Blatanly overpowered skills. For those of us who do try and be creative using vast MP resources it is a death sentence. I propose that energy parasite and blood commander Both get a set amount of str/mp without stat variation buffs Blood commander at max level dropped to 40 regardless of support. Energy parasite consistently does 90 mana drain and 40 gain per turn. It is also set to 90% weapon damage to compensate for this drastic but much needed nerf.

4~ Mark Of blood. The single most powerful and useful skill in the game. For 500 damage you get 180 HP back at max level. When using infernal android hitting 730 damage allows you to regain 230 HP. Mark of blood also variates ive seen. Sometimes hitting 400 gives you 190 HP back. Mark of blood drops to 90% of weapon damage and does at maximum level 27% HP regen.

5~ Hybrid Armor. This is MASSIVELY powerful. +60% def/res at level 10 FOR 4 TURNS. Not to mention it can't even be debuffed by Azrael's Torment I propose it is dropped to +25% def/res at max level with a 3 turn span. mana cost is also increased by 5 per 2 levels.

6~ Bludgeon. For the low energy cost and cooldown. Compiled with the ability to produce mass amounts of energy quickly as mage or blood mage. MP cost increased by 10 per 2 levels. and damage dropped by 1% per level.

These are suggestions that I personally think would drastically improve game-play and promote massive build creativity.
Xamurai



A P O L L O -> RE: Numerous changes. To balance the game and inspire versatility. (7/7/2014 7:42:20)

I would have to agree, no one bothers to make their own build now and they all have the same build which i believe is bringing negativity to the game, and the most obvious thing that balance is just not there is the massive drop in numbers of people that play the game, i would agree with the suggestions, poison is so over powered and over used it boils my brain! its too easy to just repeat and takes off too much for how easy it is to use.



alwins obliteration -> RE: Numerous changes. To balance the game and inspire versatility. (7/7/2014 7:46:50)

I actually agree in this. I want agility back so people wont use str + high hp.



OverlordED -> RE: Numerous changes. To balance the game and inspire versatility. (7/7/2014 7:51:02)

I totally support this.

Especially the Poison part, 390 damage + the damage by the strikes the player does in 3 turns are too much.



suboto -> RE: Numerous changes. To balance the game and inspire versatility. (7/7/2014 10:00:33)

I disagree with posion and hybrid armor. armor was originially a passive massively nerfed now into costing to only use for 4turns so no. posion no nerf it already cost alot for the price of what it does I myself us level7 because the cost is so much. if u nerf posion energy cost must go down as well. Blud i can kinda agree slightly but not increased by 10 but 5 per level. agility no so sure about this wouldnt u perfer a added bonus for having 950 or less hp? I also disagree with mark of blood as it was a passive nerfed into a active so no again. not sure on blood commander and energy parasaite.



Mother1 -> RE: Numerous changes. To balance the game and inspire versatility. (7/7/2014 10:20:36)

I have to disagree with these changes. all these changes would do is just shuffle the flavor builds. once a new flavor build or builds are found it will be the same thing all over again and diversity wouldn't be any closer to being reality.

But if you want a change that may help here is one. Make defenses percent based instead of flat out numbers. Doing this will help defensive builds stand up to those high HP strength builds.



Xamurai -> RE: Numerous changes. To balance the game and inspire versatility. (7/7/2014 10:55:36)

You disagree with everything thats posted Mother.



Mother1 -> RE: Numerous changes. To balance the game and inspire versatility. (7/7/2014 11:23:56)

@ Xamurai

Not true in the least. I disagree with things I can see the flaws in, and with each of these I can see the flaws and how it will screw up balance for another group. It looks like all these ideas were designed for high level balance and not low level balance. Remember when you make balance changes you affect all groups using these skills now just one which is one of the main reasons why I don't support these changes. I will got into more detail

Take for example your poison suggestion. At high levels this may make a change however at lower levels this can hurt them especially since down there poison is one of the key tools used to deal with those dex TM's as well as users with high defenses. The cost was also decreased because it wasn't being used due to high cost. If this poison change went through poison would be a less effective counter for those who are fighting those dex TM's and other tanky builds.

Now let's look at your agility suggestion. IIRC this was a band aid fix that never addressed the original problem which was keeping HP from being so rewarding to invest in. As it is now the only other stat that is equally rewarding to invest in is strength due to it having a move that can be used forever without cool down and Dex being a close second due to it making it possible to connect. However the other stats aren't nearly as rewarding to invest in especially support. Heck support is so worthless to most that we have base support builds running around and still dominating which means support is near worthless at higher levels. A real solution to this problem would be to make the other stats just as rewarding to invest in as strength and HP. This way since all the stats would be equals more diversity would come out it.

Let get with the hybrid armor suggestion. As it stand now hybrid armor is the only skill I see that is stopping these strength builds in their tracks. Even with your agility idea in play the moment you nerf hybrid armor it would be counter productive to what you were trying to do because it would make it a lot easier for these builds to deal damage. Even with the penalty from Agility defensive builds using this skill would still be hard pressed at higher levels and at lower levels this would make it less of a counter to the flavor builds at lower levels.

Blood commander's effect as it is now can be countered with heart attack and Azreal's torment which means unlike hybrid armor the effect can be reduced. As for energy parasite when this skill was designed it was made to be a counter to high energy builds so it sounds like you want to nerf this move because it is doing what it is designed to do which is counter High energy builds. Not a good reason to nerf a move. If you don't like it you could always use a low energy build to counter this effect.



Xamurai -> RE: Numerous changes. To balance the game and inspire versatility. (7/7/2014 11:43:28)

I actually agree with almost everything you just said EXCEPT the hybrid armor. It makes players rage in 3 turns. And i mean cmon. If you have 400 res and you use hybrid you get 650 total res? Thats a bit much...



Dual Thrusters -> RE: Numerous changes. To balance the game and inspire versatility. (7/7/2014 12:27:01)

quote:

damage dropped by 1% per level.

quote:

would have a huge impact.


So if a Bludgeon were to hit 300, now it would hit for 297. That isn't exactly a huge impact considering it's only a fraction of damage if you were to base it off before the 10x update.



Xamurai -> RE: Numerous changes. To balance the game and inspire versatility. (7/7/2014 12:49:04)

Yes but the main difference would be the cost of energy. With only a minute nerf to damage to compensate the drastic MP cost increase.



ambien -> RE: Numerous changes. To balance the game and inspire versatility. (7/7/2014 13:28:01)

well seems that Xamuri hit the nail on the head with this post. mother1 its seems that you disagree with almost every post, that brings up some kind of balance needed it the game. l guess if you have not played when duel started then you do not know what balance is. omega took all the balance away and went with nerfs and buffs which did not help the balance at all. nerfs and buffs cannot replace balance never.

so the post brought the thing about balance. maybe they devs should take a long hard look at this very good post on balance and get rid of keep nerfing or buffing the game.

my thoughts on this

always the syfy



veneeria -> RE: Numerous changes. To balance the game and inspire versatility. (7/7/2014 13:59:42)

You caught my attention on the first 3 lines, but it becomes an contradiction after it.

So you want versatility, but actuality support agility which basically makes health builds less viable? [&:]

Long story short, i agree with some of it and like i have said before: "In short, we are punished for being creative".



Mother1 -> RE: Numerous changes. To balance the game and inspire versatility. (7/7/2014 14:01:30)

@ Ambien

Actually I have been playing more in game also if you read the entire thread you would see that Xamuri actually agreed with my reasons for disagreeing besides hybrid armor. I even gave the main reason why I disagreed.

If I can find a flaw in something that will screw up balance else were I will disagree with something. Especially if it just shuffles the flavor builds or harm balance for another group.

Sorry if I am a nay sayer as most balance ideas, but when making balance changes I am a firm believer that you need to think about how it will affect All groups not just the group that you are in. Especially since we have seen what most balance changes have brought to the game.

You have been here way longer than me Ambien so you should know that most changes like this if not thought through will either

1 Change the flavor build and after a short period it will be the same problem but with another build
2 Wreak balance for another group of player in a different level group.



veneeria -> RE: Numerous changes. To balance the game and inspire versatility. (7/7/2014 14:26:00)

@Mother1

To what it is worth, i agree with everything and your standarts except for:
quote:

Blood commander's effect as it is now can be countered with heart attack and Azreal's torment


Lets not take that into account since not all actuality have the gun.
Also while we are at it, what do you think of expanding the skill three with new skills and the variety of cores?



Mother1 -> RE: Numerous changes. To balance the game and inspire versatility. (7/7/2014 14:36:37)

@ veneeria

Actually the gun uses azreal's will the aux uses Azreal's torment. But yeah you do have a point about not everyone having those, however using a shield or armor in some classes cases is just as effective of a counter as well.

Heart attack comes from the Azreal borg which can be brought in game when it is in season as well but yeah. I kind of keep forgetting that not everyone uses this bot like myself but the aux is very common with the masses.

As for expanding the skill trees with more moves that would be a good idea as I see nothing wrong with that. However, the moves that are added need to be properly balanced or it could cause problems.



DanniiBoiixD -> RE: Numerous changes. To balance the game and inspire versatility. (7/7/2014 16:05:22)

Agilty needs to come back BIG time. Right now, people with high health have good defenses, with no penalty at all for that high health. Although Rabble may have called it a band aid fix, it really wasn't. I don't understand HOW it was a bandaid fix. Sure, it could have been implemented better, but it did the job that it was supposed to do well.

I don't agree with MoB getting a nerf, but energy parasite definitely needs a change because of how effective it is in a boss fight. All the other stuff that you said should be nerfed seem fine though, except hybrid armor.

What I think would increase build diversity is reverting the energy control changes. Passives should come back but they won't have to if they make energy the way it should be.



Imperial BloodyED -> RE: Numerous changes. To balance the game and inspire versatility. (7/7/2014 17:28:59)

All we want is Passives back. Passives used to let us Make our OWN builds. for example Every class has their own skills Like:

MERCENARY: Was a huge Tank And also can have Huge support/a lil tank as builds.

TACTICAL MERCENARY: used to be a lil tank with energy Draining automaticly.

BLOOD MAGE: used to be Like tech mage but made of fire/blood can be preddy overpowered as Strength and a lil tank with high gun damage but CANNOT get back energy.

TECH MAGE: Used to be one of the most fun high support and high gun damage and a lil bit of tank with high robot strikes, and high heal looping builds. (funniest days ever)

BOUNTY HUNTER: used to have intimidate as getting auto hp back. and can be STR/TANK/Support/tec with poison watever u prefer every build could be done.

CYBER HUNTER: Used to be a huge technology tank with their armor soz i dont remember the skill name but they used to have HUGE resistance and with malf. and Also can go for strength.

This is nothing. we used to make our own builds and be on youtube like: Example 40 likes and i will show you all my build! thats how it was. not like now. everyone stealing the same strength build thats dumb lol.

If you dont agree with passives back. then you are a pre omega. anyways i got another opinion. PEOPLE ARE PLAYING WITH OVER 1000 HP WHICH IS BORING OVER 1500 THATS DUMB FIX THE STRENGTH FFS.



lionblades -> RE: Numerous changes. To balance the game and inspire versatility. (7/7/2014 17:51:06)

Yeah, the passive to active update ruined almost every gamemode.[&:]
RIP Juggernaut
RIP Passives



LeProTurtle -> RE: Numerous changes. To balance the game and inspire versatility. (7/10/2014 17:51:25)

or, to solve almost all these problems, bring back passives and revert the x10. it wasn't needed and imo it's dumb. this game was super fun the way it was, omega was really just a complete screw up.



Dual Thrusters -> RE: Numerous changes. To balance the game and inspire versatility. (7/10/2014 18:36:39)

@LePro

x10 doesn't even affect balance that much, it just adds an extra digit to everything.



Mother1 -> RE: Numerous changes. To balance the game and inspire versatility. (7/10/2014 19:27:45)

@ leproTurtle

The x10 does affect balance well since it turns decimals into whole numbers. Plus you can now see what every point does which is a good thing unlike before where if the number didn't shift it didn't notthing for you.



ScarletReaper -> RE: Numerous changes. To balance the game and inspire versatility. (7/11/2014 0:01:38)

The x10 to stats was actually the only god change they have done since omega started in my opinion. But I have to agree that there was far more build variety when we had passives. I miss my support bounty hunter and my support techmage. Those builds no longer work thanks to the passive to active switch. It was supposed to create more build variety and it did exactly the opposite. There was actually more variety before.



Xendran -> RE: Numerous changes. To balance the game and inspire versatility. (7/11/2014 13:26:05)

x10 was needed, i was asking them to do it for a long time and it was a much needed change.
The changes listed in this thread though, i don't agree with. There are much more creative ways to balance out skills.



Xamurai -> RE: Numerous changes. To balance the game and inspire versatility. (7/18/2014 13:42:25)

@Xendran i was not looking for creative changes i was looking for fast fixes that the devs might actually descend from the heavens and consider as opposed to drastic skill changes.

All I really want is cores removed. I hate having to spend 4 turns a battle trying to generate/ regain/ steal mana
And i personally believe that omega has potential if a few huge bugs are worked out



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