My Thoughts on the Ranks (Full Version)

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Lord Machaar -> My Thoughts on the Ranks (1/27/2015 0:13:04)

I prefer to wait for 30 minutes for a balanced battle than enter into instant battles where my opponent has 50+ more ranks than me. I don't know if anyone would like that, but really what's the purpose of entering a game you will lose anyways? Why you will reduce the time a game will start, when the in the end you will lose that battle? isn't it better to wait for a balanced one? where atleast your opponent isn't more than 15 ranks more than you.

I personally met a player that has 56 ranks more than me, not once, but 20 times that day, we had same support, yet he started first 80%, because Rabblefroth thinks ranks do nothing, Well, my friend ranks are a big advantage. It's not that I lost those 20 battles, what I felt bad about is what this rank system has turned the game into. Players with 20k 30k 40k NPC wins, for god almighty sake, is this ED? is this a PVP game? is this AQW?

Just to add: Whoever says you should go do some NPCs, here is my response:
I have the right, at any stage of the game, to play the game for what it is meant to be for in first place, and what I was enjoying during those 6 years: A Player Vs. Player game. I refuse to spend the whole day fighting the same NPC, doing same moves like a machine, what's the fun in that? Unless you are playing the game for another reason, then my friend I'm playing it to enjoy it., I came to play the game for its feature that is written in its homepage Player - Vs - Player Online Battles, if you have forgotten about that then I advise to visit it again.

I'm waiting for a single statement from devs to tell me that what I just stated is wrong, I will quit the game with not a single look back. One. Single. Statement.



Mother1 -> RE: My Thoughts on the Ranks (1/27/2015 0:28:34)

The problem is not everyone feels the same way you do. Some people just want to battle and those people if they saw something like this would think "ARE YOU NUTS? I DON'T WANT TO WAIT FOR A 30 minutes just because some other person doesn't mind the wait in the hopes of a fair fight.

Then there is the problem that even if this did happen you may not even get your fair fight. Remember the game picks from who is on and trying to isolate it even further with such a small player population will cause more harm then good.

What about those players who have extremely high ranks? If this went in those players would never get fights due to their being so few of them.

Then there is the fact that during reset and early morning the server population is as low as 100-200 sometimes which is extremely low. If they had something like NPC in battles like they did in the infernal war to cover the slack for low server times or something like this that is one thing, but trying to isolate players in the hopes of fair fights when you very well many not even have those players will not only fail to get the objective, but succeed in ticking off players who don't want to wait and just want to battle, as well as isolate extremely high ranked players due to the lack of them.



Lord Machaar -> RE: My Thoughts on the Ranks (1/27/2015 0:33:24)

First of all there are 60 ranks.
High rank players are players with 60 ranks, ranks more than that aren't taken in consideration.
Players with high ranks won't be isolated because there are players with meduim ranks also.
If not, I think there should be an option for whether you want instant battles or you would like fair and balanced ones.

If they are afraid to isolate players with high ranks, then they are not afraid to lose players with low ranks due to their excessive amount of losses?



SouL Prisoner -> RE: My Thoughts on the Ranks (1/27/2015 0:54:31)

I never really understood this "rank stuff". I mean how is it fair for a level 1 rank to fight level 60+ rank?? HOW?? And what's more shocking is that players don't really seem to care at all!

IMO, players/ppl don't care much about the stuff that they don't see. If your partner is 36 and you're 40, you freak out. But if you're opponent is rank 60 and your rank 1, it's fine. It's a fair fight because both are level 40. [/facepalm]

I feel at least this problem should be fixed in 1v1. Never mind 2v2.



Lord Machaar -> RE: My Thoughts on the Ranks (1/27/2015 1:01:41)

I'm shocked also, everyone is acting like ranks aren't making any problem in the game.
Players talking about luck here, and others talking about variety there, well, wake up everyone, ranks are the problem.

What's even more shocking, devs don't give a flying potatoe about this too, they prefer to scratch a new promo and animate it and change the outfit of every NPC in-game while a huge balance problem is there. The game is drawning in weapons now, every now and then a new weapon comes out, and a seasonal comes back and etc... yet whoever incharge of the game balance is sleeping somewhere.



Mother1 -> RE: My Thoughts on the Ranks (1/27/2015 1:12:53)

They will also lose players who don't like waiting 30+ minutes either because others think this is fair.

There are very and I mean very few players who have over 60 ranks. I can count on my hand how many there actually are and if they aren't all on at the same time then those players will be isolated.

Plus as I pointed out there is the time zone issue as well. What about when we have server populations as low as 200?

Now this many sound like a lot but let's add in the next filters

1) Players not battling period
2) Players doing a different battle mode than you
3) Players already in battles
4) Players that aren't in your playing range.

You have to go through all those filters when going for a match which may not sound like much but those filters can really cut down your playing pool.




SouL Prisoner -> RE: My Thoughts on the Ranks (1/27/2015 1:26:08)

@Mother1

Whose fault is it that the players are reducing?? Just because there are less players doesn't mean you should be forced to fight unfair battles. And if there is such player crises, then please increase the level gap. Make it like 20 or something. A level 20 fighting level 40. How does that sound?? Fair. If not, then how is the current version all fair and good??

You cannot justify your answer by saying we have no choice so keep playing those unfair battles.

And another thing. So what if their are less rank 60 players?? The rank sys came out like 7-8 months i believe. Eventually this problem will only grow bigger and bigger. The population of high ranks is increasing, not decreasing.



Lord Machaar -> RE: My Thoughts on the Ranks (1/27/2015 1:27:58)

@Mother1

I don't know why you keep bringing the players with ranks over 60? Any rank above rank 60 doesn't count for now, there are plenty of players from rank 30 to rank 60 (60+ are considered as rank 60). And I said I prefer, not there will be 30 minutes wait, it will be 2 - 4 minutes wait for a fair battle in even server with 300 players. Especially in time of wars most of players actually play PVP rather than hanging around.

You are not seeing the big picture here, a decent 1vs1 battle lasts 2 - 4 minutes, and that exactly will be the wait time, having 25 players of same range will bring a massive amount of possibilties, facing each player 2 times that's 50 fair and square battles. Plus 25 players is a short amount of players. As for high ranks from 30 - 60 I think there are enough players in that range to fight each other.



King Bling -> RE: My Thoughts on the Ranks (1/27/2015 2:10:21)

Nah, I have more ranks, not because I npc but I pvp, just because I pvp more doesn't mean I should get a second turn due to having high ranks.
Go turn into a str tlm poison spammer, you will see that even high rank players struggle to win when they have high ranks with high support and by chance a 37 support with low rank starts, its hard to win due to the fact poison has 2 turns cooldown, if it is judged by ranks then those tlms will start first always leading to lotta loses straight forward, this is your fault that you couldn't cope up with, I dont npc much as well, playing pvp in power weekend or just ph can get you ranks, dont complain bout it , when you get higher rank, you will realize why I am giving my favor to ranks.



Mother1 -> RE: My Thoughts on the Ranks (1/27/2015 2:15:58)

@ Lord Machaar

I see what you are saying however I don't agree with isolation when

1) we don't have a back up system to handle wait times
2) It doesn't solve the problem.

In fact we did this once before when the ranks first came out. They did isolate 40's once before and here we are at this point once again. Which proves that Isolation isn't working.

Personally I would either remove or change the ranks to something that doesn't give power however since the staff doesn't want to do that in fear of the same backlash that enhancements had I would propose not a rank system that isolate players to the point where they have to wait longer at best or at worst not get matches period. But rather a system similar to that of the infernal war.

The engine could search for a player of matching rank and level first and if they can't find it after a reasonable amount of time (2-4 minutes isn't reasonable for 1 vs 1 or 2 vs 2 with the later being reasonable only during non peak hours) A NPC comes in at the same rank and level to fight the person.

For 2 vs 2 the same can be done except that in if a NPC comes of one player the opponent side will also have a NPC (to prevent unbalanced fights due to 2 players versus a player and a NPC)

If said system came into play as a back up or a back up system period that didn't screw over player who don't like waiting I would be all for this, but for any player who doesn't like waiting and just wants to play this idea without a back up is basically giving them the bird.



Lord Machaar -> RE: My Thoughts on the Ranks (1/27/2015 2:37:30)

@King Bling:
First of all, not everyone is ready to do NPCs, and not everyone is able to play on PH. And not everyone has the possibility to play every day for 6 hours. You will need 450k exp to reach rank 60, 225k of exp to reach rank 30. Some no-lifers will achieve that in two months, others will take two years. Spending more time on the game doesn't mean only you can have fun on it, other players would like to have fun even though they don't play that intensively.
And yeah if you can't defeat a rank 1 with ANY build, and you are a high ranker, bro, something is wrong with you. Copy their build and you will have an advantage, that's what a rank 60 do. Copy the OP build and with your legendary points you will bypass everyone. Because you have an enhanced version of it.

You said why would I start second if I'm a high ranker, I will tell you what if I'm a level 40 and a level 35 starts first? Same for me, a rank 60 vs rank 1 is no different from that. It's like level 30 vs level 40.

And yeah I'm a tlm poison spammer. Facing a 56 more ranks high than you with same ENHANCED build is somethiing I hate.

@Mother1

I don't know why you call that isolation, rank 60 - 30 range is vast, no one will be isolated as waiting time will be no different from others.

The idea you brought was in infernal wars, yet I remember many players calling the NPC in their side as dumbs, and that was true sometimes.



Mother1 -> RE: My Thoughts on the Ranks (1/27/2015 2:45:44)

@ lord Machaar

I call it isolation because that is what it is. by definition Isolation is the process of separating someone or a group from others. That is what happened when they changed the level range the first time in the hopes of giving out more fair fights.

They isolated level 40's so they couldn't face 35-37 even if they were a 40 rank 1. Your suggestion is basically that all over again.



Lord Machaar -> RE: My Thoughts on the Ranks (1/27/2015 2:51:56)

^ I don't think 40s rank are isolated now, no?
Level 40s rank 1 don't face lvl 35 - 37 for a damn good reason, if I was a level 36 I wouldn't like to face a level 40. I mean level 39s can barely win againt level 40.

This game is turning into High ranks vs minions, high rank players have like a walk down the street while doing 1vs1, press any skill and you will win.

If you call doing a rank 30 - 60 range battles is isolation, then what do you call a rank 60 vs rank 1 battle? Holocaust? death penalty?

Win % is long gone now, what most players are aiming for is 50% at best, you are lucky then.
80% and 90% win chances are from the past now and everyone understands that. But having 25% win chance is very low, it won't let you achieve anything in-game. No credits, no exp, no daily cheevos, nothing..



King Bling -> RE: My Thoughts on the Ranks (1/27/2015 8:11:14)

If you cannot play in ph, or cannot npc, or cannot play 1 hour, or cannot get wins, or cannot get the complain accepted, or cannot get ranks, or cannot do hard work to get em, or much more, you blame the people who do all those things?
Is it night for you during both the ph? or do you like in artic or antartica? or the north pole or whatever? If so that is a serious issue, apart from there, one has an access to least 1 ph, like I have one at 6 pm which is ideal.
You are simply blaming the people who did hard work maybe it be a game due to their holidays or their low age non restriction, if you dont want to rank and just complain then you should either leave or get along with it, because already many people have got ranks and this system wont be nerfed or revamped, 100% sure.



Silver Sky Magician -> RE: My Thoughts on the Ranks (1/27/2015 8:30:53)

Of course, one can quite feasibly NPC his way to level 40. However, the question is why this is necessary, given that this is a PvP game.

If one wishes to enjoy the game as soon as possible, he should indeed invest some time into NPCing. However, again, by the very premise of EpicDuel's raison d'etre, PvP should be a viable and primary route for him. It's not whether he should - it's whether he should have to.

The reason why PvP is almost unplayable at level 38-39 is because an encounter with level 40 players would almost guarantee a loss due to the overwhelming advantage of legendary builds. In the vast majority of cases, only sheer luck or stupidity on part of the opponent can grant you a win. And this is not even an assured win - I have lost handily to opponents whom I stunned and critted, and even to those who skipped up to two turns.

Legendary ranks discourage PvPing, and in a game based on PvP, this is unacceptable. It is hence necessary to reform it, not because it cannot be worked around via NPCing, but because it is fundamentally detrimental to the spirit of the game.



Lord Machaar -> RE: My Thoughts on the Ranks (1/27/2015 9:23:28)

@King Bling

My friend, the thing is, apart from being "Nighty" during PH, we have jobs, lifes, family to take care of. With that being said, I can play one hour during the whole week, maybe I won't, maybe I will play two. If you have a lot of spare time to spend on the game, it doesn't mean everyone have.

I don't blame you for ranking up so fast, since it's legit, it's the devs mistake. You did what the devs gave you to do, rank up.

What's your mistake if you had ranked up so fast? Well, what's my mistake if I don't have spare time to spend on the game? I won't have fun then?

Spending more time on the game doesn't always mean you should have a supreme advantage over everyone else. Any player should enjoy a well balanced battle modes, no matter how much time he spents on the game. Period. It's not your mistake, you ranked up so fast, it's not my mistake, because I don't have so much spare time to spend on game. It's devs mistake for doing the enhancements 2.0. This shows a huge lack of long term vision.



Mother1 -> RE: My Thoughts on the Ranks (1/27/2015 9:50:27)

@ Lord Machaar

The staff made these ranks because of those same players who thought to opposite of you were complaining they were bored and wanted something to do. Eventually the staff gave in and gave them the these ranks. There where also players who wanted enhancements in some shape or form back do what did the staff do? They made the ranks so players could grind, and they made the ranks give power.

Personally while the ranks themselves weren't bad the fast that they gave power was.



Lord Machaar -> RE: My Thoughts on the Ranks (1/27/2015 10:58:47)

Those players who complained now reached rank 60. What they are going to do now? Complain to add them more ranks? Ranks will continue to infinity and beyond? There are players with ranks over 100 now?

Are you telling me that they are actually doing something after reaching rank 60? they will rank up after 60 only to get more useless ranks, and do you think will count more ranks? Not until most of the players reach ranks near that, which will be possible in 2020.

If you are telling me DEVs made ranks for no-life players, then ranks are limited. Once they reach rank 60 they will ask for more?

Ranks were introduced in a very bad time. Small player base, means a very small amount of players will reach the highest rank and will cause a major balance problem. Everything in Omega came late. Every single thing. Until they lost 75% of their player base, they started presenting features that require players.

I hope they do realize now that not, only they, in this world who are capable to think and come up with ideas. For 3 phases devs thought they are the supreme deciders of this game. Here is the result.



King Bling -> RE: My Thoughts on the Ranks (1/27/2015 11:15:30)

Who tells you to play epicduel if you have so much work to do, I dont blame the age factor here, but its true I am much younger thus granting me more time than you, but that cannot be no reason for me to go second in battle, so if I am smaller in age and have more time so it doesnt mean I go second in a fight given its the same level, your point if is absurd, if you cannot play epicduel and still want to win battles, then the people playing will leave, then you can play all alone.



Lord Machaar -> RE: My Thoughts on the Ranks (1/27/2015 11:35:23)

First of all, I decide which game I want to play, no matter how much little time I have, I like to spare it on this game, problem with that?
I have been playing this game more than you, from 2009, and like you I had nothing to do in my life back then and I spent much time on the game, that's why you already see I have many wins on my character page.
Being busy and not being able to play the game as intensive as I was doesn't mean I shouldn't enjoy it at all or atleast like I was.

You should go second for a good reason. You have 50 more ranks than your opponent, you gotta go second, those are a good 50 Legendary points.
If a Level 30 faces Level 35, level 35 should start first just because he spent more time on the game, but the balance terms set by devs decide who start first, no matter how much of time anyone of you has spent on the game, that's why level factor is being taken in consideration on whether to start first.




Mother1 -> RE: My Thoughts on the Ranks (1/27/2015 12:49:51)

@ Lord Machaar

I have faced players who had more/less levels than me and that result didn't always happen. There have been many times where I was on the lower end of the stick and still went second, and visa versa. However just because that happens doesn't mean the player who is at a double disadvantage is on the lower end of the stick.

Build advantage can make up for a level disadvantage. I don't know how many of those high ranked Tactical merc's I have faced that I ended up beating without luck due to my build being able to work in my favor.

The same can be said at lower levels seeing as I have seen many lower level players beat higher level players because they have effective builds. My point being is that Being a lower level and going second =/= a death sentence.




Lord Machaar -> RE: My Thoughts on the Ranks (1/27/2015 14:51:31)

^ There is huge difference when talking about this from a general point of view, and talking about it from your view.
We don't talk here about your case or mine. When you come here and tell me ranks aren't an advantage, and if a player has 50 ranks more than another player, any build at this stage won't change the result.

Currently there are OP builds. When those OP builds are used by high rankers. The problem comes out.
High rankers will have an enhanced version of that OP build, in other words OPxOP build. If 2 players X & Y with a huge ranks in difference, and both use same build, strategy of that build is same, ranks who decide who will win. In the end it comes down to who has more legendary points. High ranker will invest many legendary points to enhance that build. And even if those players (X & Y) use different builds, with player X has alot more ranks than Y, and player X is using the OPxOP build we are talking about. The player Y will have no chance but use the same OP build, if he chose a build to encounter this OPxOP build, he will have to deal with other builds in game and also the enhanced version of a high ranker with his encounter build. (giving for example the str build as the OPxOP build and f5 as an encounter build.)



The berserker killer -> RE: My Thoughts on the Ranks (1/27/2015 18:01:54)

Try going second against anyone with poison...try going second against any strength build (if you dont have karth).... Go second against someone with ultrathors massacre build or a rank 1 f5 merc with max surgical and 720 energy. If you can even survive against a rank 1 tech mage with 1700 hp, a sword, and 550+ str then godd bless you because clearly you know something we don't. However what I do know is that +40 bot str does nothing if you're not focus, sorry. +40aux str isn't that beneficial if you're not running at least 40support. Primary and gun is nothing better than "alright" or "eh" if you're focus.

I find that the ranks are balanced and that, no matter what rank you are (until they release more ranks), first turn is a huge deciding factor of who's going to win the match. Sure the stats raises are cute and all, gives you a couple of boosts, but the only thing that would make first turn not matter (or at least matter less) is if they increase the amount of skill points we have. My 580 primary str to your 550 str is not a huge deciding factor. My 340 defense to your 300 doesn't matter. Tbh, it used to. But notice how this game has changed from "320 def and 360 red is important" to "kill your opponent in 6 moves and keep it moving". And the only way to do that is with Skills whether it be plasma cannon, plasma bolt, massacre or surgical. If they give us more skill points then we'll see an entirely different game where first turn wont matter as much because as that rank 1 hits me with a 200 dmg plasma cannon I can blast him with a 400 plasma bolt.

Despite what anyone says, at any rank, first turn is so damn important and id love to see anyone not struggle against any of those builds I mentioned above without going first or using a bot.

I've lost to so many lvl 39s, once even to a 38 and several rank ones because some times they had op amazing builds but mainly because they went first.

P.S. I dont support pity and I will never support pity. I dont even like the idea of losers in War getting rewards but they still do. Everyone has the chance to rank up in this game. Go npc or something, but if I invest points into support then I expect to go first the majority of the time. Show no pity. Kill everyone.

P.s.p.s you should really be rewarded for those 15k wins you did. I dont understand why the devs did that to players and didn't reward you guys at all after you sat at the level cap and fought so hard. Thats not fair.



Lord Machaar -> RE: My Thoughts on the Ranks (1/27/2015 18:43:45)

You are basically coming here and telling me ranks give you 0 advantage? I think the fact that it's been a long time since you played in a low rank character gives you and @king bling this feeling. If you are having 90% win percent, you are coming here and telling me ranks aren't giving advantage because you are not winning the other 10%?

During all your posts, all you talk about is str tlm builds, one build you lose to give you the feeling that ranks aren't working? Your build isn't meant to be perfect and defeat all other builds, you should understand that. The fact that you already have a 80% - 90% win % in your current high rank should be satisfying for you. Other low rank players have 25% just to what? to satisfy the minority who wants to continue doing something, on behalf of who? other 90% of the players? so you are telling me you want to have fun and ruin the game for others just for the sake of your enjoynment? I played the game for a good 6 years, during beta/gamma/delta, we reached level cap but still we continued to do PVPs, for the sake of the fun of it. We weren't bored at all, because just PVPs at that time were enough for us. Comicalbiker had a good 100k wins at that time, and level 35 was the cap, sure there must be something for no-lifers to do in-game, there were even good plans for them to do so, without sacrificing with the other 90% of the player base, only few players now have reached high ranks, and they are going ham on the battle modes. Having a walk, so PVP for them turned basically into NPCing.

All I asked for is a testing server with a rank 60 character and I will show you what I can do with that. If you can't counter rank 1 and you are rank 60, then my friend there is a problem with you. Give me what I suggested, face me with a rank 1, I will give you first two turns and I will win the battle. That happened many times, many high rankers actually skipped their first turn during lag, and managed to win the battle. I know this from account, my friends' accounts, from youtube videos I watch.

Every point matters in omega, if 2 players lvl 40 have same build fighting each other. Only, and only ranks will decide who will win. That slight advantage you are telling doesn't matter? Having +60 resistance more than your opponent doesn't give you an advantage? having +30 damage on your primary isn't an advantage?

I personally have fought many players with high ranks, most of them were using the same build I was using, what decided the winner was "Rank" factor.

If you can do 50 more damage than me, that's a huge difference, it's small as an idividual value, but for 4 turns, those 50 more damages give you 200 damage. You tell me that doesn't matter?

- For your notes (P.S): I have the right to play the game for what it is meant to be for in first place, and what I was enjoying during those 6 years: A Player Vs. Player game. I refuse to spend the whole day fighting the same NPC, doing same moves like a machine, what's the fun in that? Unless you are playing the game for another reason, then my friend I'm playing it to enjoy it. I do that in my work, I came to play the game for its feature that is written in its homepage Player - Vs - Player Online Battles, if you have forgotten about that then I advise to visit it again.



The berserker killer -> RE: My Thoughts on the Ranks (1/27/2015 19:10:58)

Yes you have the right to play and you also have the right not to complain, and grind through the tough phases of the game. No one told you or any other low ranker to start deciding to rank up when Legendary ranks were released. Even titan said "race to the highest rank to become the strongest". Rank 60+ players have done that, and if they can afford to miss turns and still win then congrats to them because they have earned that.

Im not saying that a testing server would be bad, I even suggested it myself yet players shot it down because they still think itll be unfair after I took out EVERY SINGLE LAST FEATURE that would make this unfair. Wins don't count, rewards wont be given, retraining is free and cores are free (once you go back to a normal server the cores you have purchased will be deleted and your build will return to your previous build) yet players still complained. HOW DO YOU COMPLAIN AGAINST THAT? Something that will entirely benefit the game and you guys still complained? The only thing that I asked, to limit the amount of players crowding this server, was that the requirement is that you must be rank 100. That's it.



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