Skills nerfed to extinction (Full Version)

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AQWorldsFarmer -> Skills nerfed to extinction (6/3/2015 18:37:13)

With all the nerfing epicduel has been doing, its overlooked many many skills that are now rendered useless 'placemats' in your skill tree.
I'm going to list some skills i find useless and need to be buffed or changed

Bounty Hunter
Useless skills:
-Massacre
Semi-useless Skills:
-Cheap Shot
-Multi-Shot (I'll get to my explanation later)

Tech Mage
Useless Skills:
-SuperCharge
-Fire Scythe
- Plasma Bolt
Semi-Useless Skills:
-Malfunction
-Plasma Rain (I'll get to my explanation later)
-Overload (I'll get to my explanation later)

Mercenary
Useless Skills:
-Berserker
-Maul
-Adrenaline Rush (I think thats what its called)
Semi-UseLess Skils:
-Artillary strike (I'll get to my explanation of this later)

Cyber Hunter
Useless:
-Massacre
Semi-Useless Skills:
-Cheap Shot

Blood Mage
Useless Skills:
-FireBall
-Supercharge
Semi-Useless Skills:
-Overload
-Plasma Rain
-Intimidate

Tactical mercenaries:
Useless Skills:
- Stun grenade.
- Atom smasher.
- Field commander.
Semi-useless Skills:
-Double Strike


Now for the "I'll get to my explanation later"...uhm..explanation.
The reason I listed these skills (Artillary Strike, Multi-shot, plasma rain, and overload) under "Semi-useless" is because the only time they are at all EFFECTIVE is if you spam a specific stat.
Why have we gotten to the point to where these skills can only be used if you spam?

Any thoughts on how to improve any of the skills listed above? (To where they can be utilized in multiple build types)



The berserker killer -> RE: Skills nerfed to extinction (6/3/2015 18:52:35)

Lets be honest here, the only way to improve the skills listed above is to return the str balance to what it used to be.

Sounds like a simple thing that couldn't possibly be the cause of many of these skills being useless, right? Wrong, strength is what kept high damaging builds in check. There were only 15-20 people who knew how to effectively use a support build back when strength was effective in this game. Now? Everyone's using a support build because strength isn't a challenge anymore. Its not effective or, if anything, its nowhere as effective as it used to be therefore rendering it obsolete.

Strength builds weren't just there for no reason. It was a natural part of the balance in ED that was needed for things to stay in order. You got your tanks, stat spammers, and strength builds. By balance I literally mean balance, like order. Now theres no order, which can be fun sometimes, yet as you keep nerfing you wont get "fun" disorder. You'll only get boring. Like *ahem*now.

My honest opinion? Let us have our fun. Stop nerfing whenever a fun build becomes popular. Thats not fair.

I also would suggest returning some of the balance changes such as making tlm poison 1 turn again, making parasite 3 turns again, str back to normal, keep the no wep req for assim and static and make static charge unblockable again, let cores and skills exceed the maximum luck % again, return gun scaling to Str, return static grenades scaling back to tech, etc. Those things made the game fun and every skill was able to efficiently be used.



AQWorldsFarmer -> RE: Skills nerfed to extinction (6/3/2015 19:19:39)

I believe on of the biggest problem with skills are Energy Cost vs Effectiveness.

Heres my suggestion for a forgotten skill..

Fire Ball
-Deals damage based on your maximum health
Why? Its a BLOOD mage skill, so why not make atleast one skill base off your health?

lvl 1: Deals 300 damage +25% of your maximum health
lvl 2: Deals 315 damage +25% of your maximum health
lvl 3: Deals 330 Damage +25% of you maximum health
lvl 4: Deals 345 Damage +25% of you maximum health
lvl 5: Deals 360 Damage +25% of you maximum health
lvl 6: Deals 375 Damage +25% of you maximum health
lvl 7: Deals 390 Damage +25% of you maximum health
lvl 8: Deals 405 Damage +25% of you maximum health
lvl 9: Deals 420 Damage +25% of you maximum health
Max: Deals 435 Damage +25% of you maximum health

**The base damage values are for lvl 40s, I am not good at knowing how to scale damage for different levels**
((Edit Maybe Start off at 100 base and +5 per level? This will give you the 300 damage by lvl 40)) [End of edit]

REASONABLE Example:
Player: 1050 health
FireBall lvl: 8
Damage: 668 Physical damage.

Extreme case:
Player: 1700 health
Fireball lvl: max
Damage: 860

Now to get to the decision of energy cost..
190 base energy, +12 per level
So, at max it would cost 298 energy.



The berserker killer -> RE: Skills nerfed to extinction (6/3/2015 19:37:23)

That's a major thing I never understood about the class. Some of the skills for this class should cost hp or affect your opponent based on their hp. Skills like Bloodshield should be with this class. As for TLMs, that class isn't nowhere close to Tactical. It should have buffs rather than mere shields.



Stonehawk -> RE: Skills nerfed to extinction (6/3/2015 20:02:08)

quote:

The reason I listed these skills (Artillary Strike, Multi-shot, plasma rain, and overload) under "Semi-useless" is because the only time they are at all EFFECTIVE is if you spam a specific stat.
Why have we gotten to the point to where these skills can only be used if you spam?

Any thoughts on how to improve any of the skills listed above? (To where they can be utilized in multiple build types)



1- Remove all nerfs on those skills' damage
2- Diminishing returns on skills' damage for spammed stats (increases less damage on overload per dex if you have 150+ dex, for example)

This will work in a way that, for example, Artillery Strike will be a bit stronger than it is for not-so-high support (maybe the way it used to work BEFORE it was nerfed), and the spamming support builds will have it's deserved nerf, which I think are the only ones that should be harmed by those nerfs. It would be similar to weapons damage that increases less damage if a stat is too high.

I wonder if the system would also allow it to work that way on skills, though. But I think it's the only way to make those nerfs work fairly.



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Skills nerfed to extinction (6/3/2015 20:13:00)

Okay, here are a couple things that could be done to bring back some useless skills:

-Hybrid scaling. Skills that scale with not only 1 stat, but two.
-Because energy is such a focus but so is the consideration of blocks being game-changers, make more skills like fireball that scale raw off of strength rather than strike damage.
-Stop making the strength-scaling skills scale only with primary damage. It's kind of stupid really. 90% of all moves which increase with strength, if not more, increase at EXACTLY the same rate. This is because they are all "deal % increased strike damage" or "ignore % defenses" or something. The % increased strike damage is actually only modifying the % on the primary damage bonus of strikes, so strength scaling on almost all skills which increase with the stat have the exactly same rate of damage increase. In an essence a skill like massacre doesn't really scale with strength. Nor does maul or berzerker. They scale more with your level, but the stat that you can actually control to deal more damage in the turn that move is used is strength which is why it is somewhat incorrectly labeled as improving with strength.



AQWorldsFarmer -> RE: Skills nerfed to extinction (6/3/2015 20:33:16)

@StoneHawk

I was thinking of that too.
I'll use artillary strike as an example since I'm a merc.

Details: Scales with support
Energy: Keep it the same

Base Damage(with 0 support, lvl 1): 234 (+30 per point, up from +25)
Why 234?
As of right now artillary strike damage scales with +2-3 per point.
With 21 support lvl 1 artillary strike was dealing 297 damage.
21x3 = 63; 297-63 is 234
This way, I'm using (about) the games already basic damage...
Now, my buff is in the scaling.

For each point you invest in support, it increases artillary strike by 4 until 80 support. (80x4=320; 320+234=554 damage at 80 support)
once you get past 80, it starts to increase at a rate of 1.75 per point.

Now for my REASONABLE use:
Player: 59 support (45+14; which is a basic f5 stat)
Artillary level: 8
Base damage: 409 (25x7=175; 234+175=409)
Added damage: 236 (59x4=236)
Total Damage: 645

Abusive Use:
Player: 180 support
Artillary level: max
Base damage: 459 (25x9=225; 234+225=459)
Added Damage: 495
-Calculation 1: 80x4=320
-Calculation 2: 180-80=100; 100x1.75=175 (320+175=495)
Total Damage: 954

**After halfway through this i realized the initial stat needs to be increased from 4, and the latter needs to be decreased significantly.**
I don't feel like doing calculations again on this so maybe 4.25 points till 80 and 1.2 point after that?

Edit: I started this post before exploding penguin posted, realizing it took me 30 minutes to post...
Anyways..
quote:

Hybrid scaling. Skills that scale with not only 1 stat, but two.

I've actually had that in mind for a while, but didn't mention it because I don't know the game's limitations.



Lord Machaar -> RE: Skills nerfed to extinction (6/3/2015 22:47:26)

Tactical mercenaries:
- Stun grenade.
- Atom smasher.
- Field commander.
- Mineral armor.
- Double strike. (Intended nerf)
- Poison. (Intended nerf)



AQWorldsFarmer -> RE: Skills nerfed to extinction (6/3/2015 23:20:43)

@Machaar wow did i really forget to add tactical mercenary? XDD
Editing now..



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