RE: Fixing Pyro Fly (Full Version)

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Exploding Penguin -> RE: Fixing Pyro Fly (10/5/2015 19:24:15)

Because back in Delta when the bot was released passives were still a thing, and most notably BM focus builds could easily stomp opponents when both players had 0 energy. Active skills were not the core of the game at all and most of the battles were actually neural attack-focused, completely reliant on passive effects and enhancers such as debuffs. Some caster builds don't fit under this description of the old meta and were countered by the bot but were still functional.

If anything, don't blame the robot. Blame the stupid passive-active change that was done sloppily to achieve basically nothing. The point was to stop making certain slots on the skill tree mandatory to invest large amounts of skill points in and that is clearly not what happened.



Mother1 -> RE: Fixing Pyro Fly (10/5/2015 19:24:39)

@ Ghost78

Back when it was first created it was nowhere near as powerful nor was it available for every tom dick and harry to by for credits. When it was first created we has passives and those skills couldn't get shut down by this bot.

Also the meta was completely different back then. We weren't dependent on energy based moves like we were now.

It was also originally rare for almost 2+ years until the staff decided to break their promise and bring said bot back with the reason "it was too tactical to leave perma rare"

But even with this it didn't become game breaking until

1) Passive got turned to actives creating the energy crisis

2) The meta changed from strength tank to Dex/SUpport builds that rely on certain skills more than strength builds.

@ Exploding penguin

you ninja'ed me but you hit the nail on the head.



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Fixing Pyro Fly (10/5/2015 20:55:12)

Dang, that 24-second ninja.

But yeah, if anything is to blame for a lot of problems right now it is just the poor, boring, cyclic, energy-focused meta we have right now. It's boring and people don't like it. It also leads to completely two-dimensional builds and battles that are entirely focused on an extremely predictable cycle of turns. Most of the "creative" builds right now are just modifications of classic five focus builds which obviously is a pretty bad standard to follow for being creative.



Front45 -> RE: Fixing Pyro Fly (10/9/2015 6:07:48)

people taking my energy skill and i losing without a chance



Noobatron x3000 -> RE: Fixing Pyro Fly (10/9/2015 12:43:12)

Pyro fly is too powerful when it takes certain skills.

TM without back up - game over
TLM - without backup LMFAO YOU DEAD BRO
BH - without one of its big hitters on the dex build probably loses BH without heal emp or MOB is going to have a hard time of it less affected class admitably
CH will almost certainly lose emp or static charge and since those are the main skills that make that class viable dead CH.
Bm will almost certainly lose parasite and plasma cannon/ MOB and I would wage heavily it will be plasma or parasite in the meta possibly MOB / bludgeon if its a rare strength build . equally screwed.
Mercs just garbage period that class losing any skill is devastating

The bot could use a nerf on its special



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Fixing Pyro Fly (10/9/2015 19:29:32)

I'll say this over and over again. The bot does not need a nerf. What it needs is a change to not be RNG based so it's consistent.

And then the meta needs to be changed. It's about time the devs cleaned up the mess they started. The bot wasn't a problem until passives got changed to actives because the skills that always had high investment could now be taken by pyro fly's swarm. Back when they were passives they couldn't and active skills weren't the focus of the meta.

Basically, why fix the robot when it's just a good reason to fix the poor meta that's ruining other things about the game as well. As a result the robot will become balanced again anyways.



Noobatron x3000 -> RE: Fixing Pyro Fly (10/9/2015 19:36:13)

^ you know there are no serious balance or any patches coming anytime soon right?

Flash and the player base?

Wont happen.



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Fixing Pyro Fly (10/9/2015 21:46:56)

It's the job of all forum-goers to suggest the best way of improving the game, not the most convenient. In some cases the best way is going to be very convenient but at this point convenience is not something that will help the game at all and honestly isn't really worth considering. It promotes the idea that the current balance changes which do nothing to improve the fun factor of the game are good and therefore the devs have very little inclination to actually make changes needed to improve.

For example, the changes to the static/atom smash skills the past couple of patches:
Did it change some classes by a lot? Yes
Was it convenient since it's a simple number change that might have addressed some balance issues? Yes
Did it actually make the game any more fun or really bring back any more players? No. Not at all.

The main goal of any changes right now should be to first bring in new players in order to maintain a large playerbase. The second is to set up the game to be able to become easily balanced while maintaining the earned playerbase from the main goal. After the playerbase is actually large enough to gather sufficient data and the set up is good (meaning no legendary ranks since they screw up matchmaking) then we can actually start to talk about balance. I don't actually see how anybody can make accurate claims about balance when matchmaking is 90% of the time pretty unfair in one way or another, with 20 rank/3 level differences and whatnot.



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