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=AQ= Blood Crystal Axe

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1/20/2011 21:35:21   

Blood Crystal Axe

Here (Info submission thanks to Chii)

This is the thread in which to discuss comparisons between the new items and others. Unlike guide-like threads created via Comparison Posting you are not required to lay out comparisons in a formal manner in here. But remember - because you'll have read the forum rules of course - do not ask questions here like "what's best for me" / "which is the better weapon" - this is not a Question & Answer forum. Also this thread is for discussion, not for Comparison Requests, as that has its own board. Nor is it a general game discussion forum. Only post if you have something useful and relevant to add / discuss.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 1
1/20/2011 21:43:36   

small comparison for level 136 pure mage:

Virulent Chimera Champion

277.107 Rockin' Zard Guitar (130)
276.757 Blood Crystal Axe (135)
272.962 Classic Torch (Burn damage added)
268.562 Demon Tooth Axe (115)
235.136 Rockin' Zard Guitar (100)
229.769 Blood Crystal Axe (105)

Block Armor VII

242.772 Blood Crystal Axe (135)
242.338 Rockin' Zard Guitar (130)
239.074 Classic Torch (Burn Damage Added)
233.213 Demon Tooth Axe (115)
202.936 Rockin' Zard Guitar (100)
198.879 Blood Crystal Axe (105)

Nova Knight Plate

213.660 Blood Crystal Axe (135)
212.157 Rockin' Zard Guitar (130)
208.372 Classic Torch (Burn Damage Added)
201.962 Demon Tooth Axe (115)
173.654 Rockin' Zard Guitar (100)
170.922 Blood Crystal Axe (105)

Conclusion: Blood Crystal Axe is a zard guitar with spell boosting properties

Edit: added 105 version of axe

< Message edited by Rasudido -- 1/20/2011 21:59:11 >
AQ  Post #: 2
1/20/2011 21:49:47   

My own stats, TCC+CIT vs 75amd:

214.659 Zard Guitar(100)
210.007 Blood Crystal Axe(105)
AQ  Post #: 3
1/20/2011 21:53:14   

The difference seems small enough. However, CiT might have lowered the BloodAxe's performance due to that already offensive/inaccurate lean the axe has.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 4
1/20/2011 21:55:15   

Zard Guitar is only different by 1bth. It also has an inaccurate lean.
AQ  Post #: 5
1/20/2011 21:56:42   
Dreiko Shadrack

both weapons have the same lean, the difference being the axe gets one extra -1 bth however given the level difference this means they have the exact same amount of hit chance.

Edit: for the top versions, the 105 version does lose 1 bth extra over the zard guitar.

< Message edited by Dreiko Shadrack -- 1/20/2011 21:58:48 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 6
1/20/2011 21:58:27   

Rockin' Zard Guitar (130) and the Blood Crystal Axe (135) both have the same BTH.... Rockin' Zard Guitar is 16 BTH -3 for inaccurate lean and Blood Crystal Axe is 17 BTH -4 for inaccurate lean which both add up to a BTH of 13... So that isnt the problem, I find it dissapointing that an 8 level difference even with the ability would lead to a negligent gain.
Post #: 7
1/20/2011 22:00:07   
Dreiko Shadrack

it's a pretty big ability considering it's not asking for extra spell cost like the other spell boost weapons will likely become (sila's staff, lightning rod, etc)
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 8
1/20/2011 22:01:45   

the difference is really the spell boost which cancels out the first boost an inacurate lean of -4 BTH would give a weapon ( 85/81*.95= 99.69% for normal attacks and specials)

so truth be told the axe is stronger but only for the purposes of the spell boost.
AQ  Post #: 9
1/20/2011 22:01:48   

The difference is small enough I'd go with Blood Crystal Axe as a BMM, IF we didn't already have Sila's Staff and Lightning Rod for spellboosters. I wish I hadn't bought this now. Oh well.
Post #: 10
1/20/2011 22:08:52   
Dreiko Shadrack

your spell boosters will likely become what GSS is now, so they'll likely all ask for extra mp cost for their boosts.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 11
1/20/2011 22:30:21   

One can just buy the lowest level axe if they just want to use it for spell boosting purposes. As a BMM using Summon spells I find the weapons inaccurate lean and lower damage due to a spell boost to be useless for my build which is already inaccurate due to the lack of dex. But I can see that anyone using fire spells may want to get this axe even though post sweep we are only meant to have a meagre 4 spell casts and 16 weapon attacks over a 20 turn model... So one would be more better off using a weapon without a trigger for spells that does more damage to speed up the 16 turns of meele that you are expected to do more so if they are a pure build with ample bth that they could use an inaccurate lean weapon with much more efficency than someone with lower accuracy.
Post #: 12
1/21/2011 2:40:37   
Strange World

All things between equal (level and so on), a Mage who doesn't use INT-based spells (such as a summoning BMM) obviously won't be getting good use from this weapon. When you consider a Mage who does carry a spell that does Fire damage, then you should consider the durations involved. If you are using Fire for all 20 turns, then the 40% Fire damage you do with spells grows to 42% due to the *1.05 multiplier, whereas the 60% you get from weapons comes down to 57%, cutting your overall output to 99%. However, if you are doing Fire damage in one fight and a different element in another fight, then things can turn in your favor... assuming you can afford to mana dump when you attack with Fire. In that event, 80% of player damage would come from the mana dump, and then you are looking at 80% * 1.05 + 20% * 0.95 = 84% + 19% = 103% for the Fire battle and then normal damage for the other battle. On some occasions you can get out of using an inferior Fire weapon altogether -- when you have another weak element you can target.

Of course, equipment power level can overwhelm these numbers.
AQ  Post #: 13
1/21/2011 6:31:13   

*89/85 and *93/85 are incorrect

the first should be *85/81, and the second should be *85/81*85/81

the Encyclopedia entry lists the modifier because it's not already figured in the base/max, while the bth change is. So it would be incorrect to enter a lean on the spreadsheet, but correct to enter the multiplier as a trigger. That trigger will apply to the special, so its figures don't reflect that half of the double lean.

< Message edited by Brohg -- 1/21/2011 6:33:48 >
AQ  Post #: 14
1/21/2011 6:37:49   
SysRq AQForums

And I thought 'twas Melee in the first place.
AQ DF  Post #: 15
1/21/2011 6:38:44   

Nope, Blood Crystal Blade 'tis Magic

@BRogh: Fair enough, deleted my numbers and related posts, will do it again at some point. I still find it hard to believe that Blood Crystal Blade loses to Zard Guitar, but I'll see later

< Message edited by infuturity -- 1/21/2011 6:45:16 >
AQ  Post #: 16
1/21/2011 6:41:45   

89/85 is close to 85/81, but they are not the same. That difference is squared for the special, and multiplied by the attack's size. The difference you've calculated between the two weapons is about one and a half percent, small differences can swing small margins like that easily.
AQ  Post #: 17
1/21/2011 7:05:19   

@Brohg: It isn't squared for the special - The special takes *(85/77), not *(85/81)^2
Post #: 18
1/21/2011 7:07:46   

Are you sure Khimera? According to the info sub, the second -3 BtH and 85/82 are seperate from the first, so I think Brogh is right.

This is also evidenced by the fact that the pedia entry has the special already taking the first -3 and (85/82), and then tells you to apply it again.

I really think he might be right.

But the confusion here is that I wasn't talking about the Blood Crystal with that, that was in reference to Zard Guitar

< Message edited by infuturity -- 1/21/2011 7:23:37 >
AQ  Post #: 19
1/21/2011 7:28:44   

Ok...fixed my numbers up, and I still come up with Blood Crystal blade coming out on top for a Pure Mage

200 INT/DEX/LUK, 83 AMD in VCC:

Blood Crystal: 223.521
Zard Guitar: 221.768

Add in the fire spell boost, and I see no reason to keep Zard Guitar around.
This just goes to support my thoughts that Zard Guitar didn't make any sense. Zard Guitar was just released, and I thought to myself when it was "Why is this weapon fire when the monster that used it dealt Wind?"
Now I wish it had been wind....

< Message edited by infuturity -- 1/21/2011 7:30:01 >
AQ  Post #: 20
1/21/2011 7:56:02   

@Infuturity: If it IS squaring the damage multiplier, it's a bug.
Post #: 21
1/21/2011 8:51:14   

I don't think so Khimmy. The info sub post specifically says "The special also takes an additional, seperate -3 Bth penalty, with appropriate damage modifier."

To me, this means it applies the first bonus/penalty, then additionally and seperately applies the second.
AQ  Post #: 22
1/22/2011 12:21:49   
Outsmarting Bugs

It *should* apply the bonus as one lump sum (*85/77) otherwise it doesn't average out correctly with the BTH penalty. If it's not working that way it's probably a bug.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 23
1/22/2011 13:49:35   


Takes a -4% BtH and *(85/81) damage to all player attacks. Special damage is at -8% BtH and *(85/77) damage.

Okay, -4 for normal penalty for inaccuracy and *(85/81) damage.
Combined with ANOTHER -4%, it makes *85/+BtHmod) which maes it.... *(85/77).
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 24
1/22/2011 20:22:23   
Legendary Miss Fixit

It depends on which way it was coded; we have some equipment coded each way.


This one is multiplying the two damage bonuses together.

It's actually an interesting question as to which is "right". You see, to exactly compensate for the BtH, it should be adding the BtH modifiers together before applying the difference; however, using a weapon and an armor multiplies the two damage corrections instead. This will be very close, and is considered acceptable.
A Special is, in some sense, based on weapon + assumed armor, so it's somewhat debatable as to which is "correct".
Personally, my take at the moment is that totaling it is "better" but that either is quite acceptable - and neither is a bug.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 25
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