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RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered)

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6/2/2011 23:54:57   
Lectrix
Member

I posted this a while ago, but I doubt the numbers have changed much. If anything, I think there are now even more Mercs in 2v2.

quote:

According to these results (which were provided by H4ll0w33n):

quote:

100 battles

(not going to write it all out for obvious reasons)

BH BH= 9
BH TM= 12
BH Merc=22
TM Merc =21
TM TM= 11
Merc Merc=25
...

and my calculations, I have managed to come up with the following:

In 100 2v2 Battles, you end up fighting 2 opponents per Battle, for a total of 200 opponents. So we double each of those numbers.

Mercs: 22 + 21 +25 + 25 (I added 25 twice, because there were 2 Mercs in the 25 "Merc Merc" Battles) = 93
Bounty Hunters: 12+ 22+ 9 + 9 = 52
Tech Mages: 12 + 21 + 11 + 11 = 55

Mercs: 93/200 = 0.465
Bounty Hunters: 52/200 = 0.26
Tech Mages: 55/200 = 0.275

Which means that, out of 100 2v2 Battles, 46.5% of the Duelists were Mercs. Mercs account for about 46.5% of all high-leveled 2v2 Players. The percentage can vary of course, but 46.5% should be pretty accurate.

Now, if you look at it the other way, 53.5% of all high-leveled 2v2 Players are NOT Mercs (26% are Bounty Hunters, 27.5% are Tech Mages). So 1 out of 3 Classes make up almost 50% of high-leveled 2v2 Players.

Why are there so many Mercs in 2v2?!? Why is it that a single Class dominates the entire 2v2 Battle Mode?!?

This is obviously not what I would call "Balance". Balance is "a state of equilibrium", and last time I checked, 46.5 doesn't come close to equalling 26 or 27.5.

quote:

The time for lies is over. Every Player KNOWS the truth: 2v2 Mercs are Overpowered. There is an overwhelming number of Mercs in 2v2. Numbers don't lie. If Mercs prefer to get a few more wins at the cost of Balance, then they're just being selfish. I'm disgusted at the lack of Balance in 2v2, and I'm sure every non-Merc feels the same way. This needs to end, NOW.


< Message edited by Lectrix -- 6/2/2011 23:55:22 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 51
6/3/2011 0:10:57   
Firewallblast
Member

^ Read my last post
AQW Epic  Post #: 52
6/3/2011 0:20:27   
xxmirxx
Member
 

 .Sir Lazarus. I agree with you. honestly guys stop complaining about class you never been. It takes skill be merc just like be mage or bounty.
AQ Epic  Post #: 53
6/3/2011 1:04:54   
goldslayer1
Member

@mir
exactly many people say str merc is OP, but im willing to bet 90% of those never been a str merc.
AQW Epic  Post #: 54
6/3/2011 1:47:27   
Lectrix
Member

@goldslayer: And do you Mercs realize how hard it is to be a Tech Mage?

quote:

I enjoy playing as a Tech Mage. It's a challenging, yet fun Class. But at a certain point, a challenge goes from being fun to being downright stressful. I think Tech Mages have now succeeded in crossing this line. Non-Varium Tech Mages serve as little more that a punching bag for players like 5 Focus Tech Mercs/Bounty Hunters.

Why should Tech Mages have so many useless Skills? Why should Tech Mages be unable to defeat their opponents as quickly as Mercs or Bounty Hunters? Why should Tech Mages have only one horrible Physical Staff? Why should any Tech Mage who wants a decent Physical Weapon be restricted to only HALF of their Skill Tree?

@Firewallblast: So you're saying that Tech Mages and Bounty Hunters are "afraid" to try 2v2?
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 55
6/3/2011 2:05:52   
xxmirxx
Member
 

 actually as bounty varium and mage its not hard at all just takes skill to be good in 2vs2.
AQ Epic  Post #: 56
6/3/2011 2:15:48   
Firewallblast
Member

@ Lectrix yes because of all the mercs u dont want to go in there with them. I also do understand ur point about tech mages against a same lvl a non varium mage wouldt stand a chance against a merc the same lvl or lower. Once on my on my lvl 22 level mage I had to use 2 health booster 2 heals and defence moves over a lvl 19 merc and he still won. But this doesn't change the fact that some mage/bh's are getting into 2v2 and liking it in higher levels.
AQW Epic  Post #: 57
6/3/2011 2:24:45   
Nehal007
Member

wel i dont think tht merc r OP coz they olways lose while fightin to me.......recently i changed to BH again wid a +5 focus build n 95 which makes it easy 4 me to kill ane class n ane player
BTW merc r not overpowered bt techmages hv become very weak it seems like they r nowhere

Its only tht MERC RULE THEM ALL :D :P
Post #: 58
6/3/2011 2:28:26   
Lectrix
Member

@Firewallblast: Yes; the Mercs are the main reason that I hate 2v2. But I still try to play 2v2 because it's more complicated and less predictable -- in a good way.

Still, there shouldn't be so many Mercs in 2v2 (I suppose the same goes for Bounty Hunters in 1v1.). EpicDuel's Classes will never be 100% Balanced (especially with the upcoming introduction of 3 new Classes). But when 1 of 3 Classes accounts for about 50% of all 2v2 Players, then we're not even close to achieving Balance.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 59
6/3/2011 2:34:51   
frosty123
Member
 
There is no such thing as useless skill. A useless skill is a skill that can't be used
(less=not i think? So there useless is use not) As far asi can see its useable.
(able=able to so able to use.) There are plenty of(idiot?) techmages out theree that use those skills you call useless.
The reason why half of the skills need a staff is because they are spells. Take assimilsation for example. When you do that skill you take a staff and hit your oppenant with it. When the staff makes contact it absorbs energy and gives you back half. Plasma bolt, is a skill imagine seeing a sword send out a energy bolt. Overlord is a skill that gathers heat from the ground and it travels to the top of the staff and is release into the air and forms thunder clouds. The mage manipulats the thunder and combines it with his own 14 energy points. Thus makes lighting manipulated by your energy and is aimed at your oppenant. Plasma rain is a skill almost like Overlord. Yes it gathers moisture from the ground and releases it with his energy into the sky forming rain clouds. the energy once again minulplates the rain at your openant. Super Charge is a skill that gathers energy from the sky, land, eart,sea and the casters own into a small orb that can cause great destruction. A certain amount of energy from all places gather in ones hand by energy and it transfered into the staff. Combining with the staffs own energy it is released at the oppenant at full force. Although dealing less you still get health and with reroute you can heal and regather energy and fire it at your oppenant again. Deadly aim is a skill that put energy in the gun and deals more damage.

As i said before most of the skills are spells. The staff is a one of a king weapon. It probably is made out of a special maturial that attracts energy into the staff. Thus, the others weapon can't attract energy. The staff as well makes it easier for energy to be sent out of the staff.

Off TOpic:

As the bloodmages arrive i begin to understand them even more. The bloodmage is a mage that uses a sword powered by energy. It has certain skills that increase thep ower of its sword and can cause more destructive power

I may be wrong about everything but i used common sense.
Post #: 60
6/3/2011 2:43:28   
Lectrix
Member

Let's just say that Tech Mages have a lot of "hard-to-use" Skills...

Why? Staff requirements and lack of useful Bonuses (Crit Chance, Resistance ignored, etc.).

The fact that Tech Mages have "Spell" Skills shouldn't mean that they should have more restrictions. Here, I had some ideas in this post from a thread about buffing Tech Mages:

quote:

1. Get rid of the Staff requirements for Overload and Plasma Rain (the other Classes' Stun and Multi Skills don't require Class specific Weapons). The slam-your-Staff-into-the-ground animation should be removed, and replaced with an animation that works with Swords.

2. Assimilation's Staff requirement can easily be removed, without changing the animation. It's Energy Drain should also be unblockable (possibly at the cost of an extra Cooldown turn).

3. Plasma Bolt and Plasma Rain need to be buffed slightly (something along the lines of a small % of Resistance ignored, or a small bonus to Crit). I realize that these Skills can be overpowered if used with Technician and/or Malfunction, but that doesn't mean that Mercs should be able to do the same amount of Damage in one turn (and with less Energy).

4. Supercharge. Now that's a problem. A BIG problem. I think Supercharge's % of Resistance ignored should be replaced with something like a +25% chance to Crit. After all, the other Classes have Skills that add a bonus to Crit.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 61
6/3/2011 5:15:48   
Light Stridr
Member

@Frosty123
I can't see any common sense there.

quote:

There are plenty of(idiot?) techmages out theree that use those skills you call useless.

Well done, you just insulted a good dying chunk of ED.

quote:

The reason why half of the skills need a staff is because they are spells.

I'm sure staves only aid the casting of a spell, the spells themselves are unnecessary.

quote:

Take assimilsation for example. When you do that skill you take a staff and hit your oppenant with it. ... Plasma bolt, is a skill imagine seeing a sword send out a energy bolt

Both feasible with swords. And the other skills, again, feasible, but the animation would need to be changed.

quote:

Although dealing less you still get health and with reroute you can heal and regather energy and fire it at your oppenant again.

Agility killed this idea.

quote:

Deadly aim is a skill that put energy in the gun and deals more damage.

It improves accuracy, thus, "Aim" -.-

quote:

As i said before most of the skills are spells. The staff is a one of a king weapon. It probably is made out of a special maturial that attracts energy into the staff. Thus, the others weapon can't attract energy. The staff as well makes it easier for energy to be sent out of the staff.
The mage him/herself stores the energy, and they *should* be able to release through other kinds of weapons.



< Message edited by Light Stridr -- 6/3/2011 5:16:44 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 62
6/3/2011 6:46:46   
drinde
Member

Put +4 DEX/TECH to improve Multi-shot/ Plasma Rain. Even so, Mercs still have an advantage (10%) Defense ignorance, but not that much.
DF MQ Epic  Post #: 63
6/3/2011 10:01:51   
PumKing
Member


I myself have been a merc, and all i have to say is that yes, it is totally a dominant my mercs, and it is most assuredly easy to do well in it, in fact one of the reasons i quit being one was because of the fact that it is just one major borfest to see mercs use bunker then artillary, I switched to a bh and have been playing 1v1 since, that was like 3 months ago before my break but that reasons for that are off the topic, the point is, is that i have thouroughly experienced what it is to be amoung the top brass of the merc class, and the only distinction between the top and not, is how much varium that merc has, as opposed to non-var mercs.

Just sayin' if anyone at all believes that healing was taken down on how effectively it heal because of anything else than the mercs abbusing support, then for lack of a better description, they are an idiot


< Message edited by Scakk -- 6/4/2011 16:21:50 >

_____________________________

Carpe Dium--grab a carp, slap him around XD
Epic  Post #: 64
6/3/2011 12:00:19   
5rr5
Banned


 We now they are op because of their hybrid so they don't need much dex and they can buy E armor and pwn us if they have high support. CRIT CRIT CRIT! And with their MULTI BOM!!! More dangerous than mages!
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 65
6/3/2011 12:46:01   
Hun Kingq
Member

Hopefully the programmers will stop favoring one class over another in Delta because it has been pretty clear in gamma they favored the merc, then the bounty, and thier least favorite the mage, why else you think the merc class gained more power, defense and resistance with each update as well as the bounties. Let us see if they hold back the mage even more or allow the blood mage use the anger of the tech mage to obtain true power without stat abuse.
Epic  Post #: 66
6/3/2011 13:42:00   
Lectrix
Member

@Above: I don't think the ED Staff is "favoring" any Class (Titan's a Tech Mage and Nightwraith's a Bounty Hunter). I think they are simply unaware of the Balance problems that still continue to plague EpicDuel, especially in 2v2. Threads like this one will hopefully get their attention. So...

@Dbag: Why does this Thread need to be locked?


AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 67
6/3/2011 14:50:48   
Lord GaGa
Member

Geez lay off mercs. :/
Classes are all equally balanced.
Just because some merc stronger than yourself beat you doesnt mean you have to complain
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 68
6/4/2011 1:56:01   
Lectrix
Member

quote:

Classes are all equally balanced.


Obviously not. If Classes are all "equally Balanced", then why do I run into so many Mercs in 2v2?

I don't think it's because Tech Mages and Bounty Hunters are "afraid" to try 2v2. After playing EpicDuel for over a year, fighting thousands of 2v2 Battles, and trying dozens of different Builds, it seems as if nothing has changed. Mercs continue to overwhelm us in 2v2. Even after numerous "Nerfs", they seem to bounce back, stronger than before.

Clearly, something is wrong.

2v2 Mercs need a real Nerf; they need to be weakened to the point where 2v2 can no longer be a source of free wins. (It should never have been a source of free wins in the first place. Not if Classes really are "equally Balanced").

@Below: I have a level 33 Tech mage named Jaller...

< Message edited by Lectrix -- 6/4/2011 15:22:57 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 69
6/4/2011 5:38:53   
Lord GaGa
Member

Because 2v2 is a mercineries strong point.
Your a BH..
They are the best class in 1v1.
Mages don't adapt properly thats why they complain.
Cause they keep the old heal loop builds with more focus.
If you wanna be good at 2v2 change to merc.
One day when your a higher level you will understand how Bhts are OP.



< Message edited by Scakk -- 6/4/2011 16:21:22 >
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 70
6/4/2011 8:41:10   
Larcell
Member

I'm sure, Lectrix, there will be a decline in the Merc population when the 3 other classes are introduced. I'm a Tech Mage too, so I know how you feel.
Epic  Post #: 71
6/4/2011 8:48:15   
Raph21
Member

I agree that mercs are a bit overpowered in 2v2. But it will always stay that way, Just think about it.

_____________________________
DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 72
6/4/2011 9:49:00   
Rayman
Banned


 Raph for me bh is the best cuz i pwn every class lol.

RayMan power.
AQW Epic  Post #: 73
6/4/2011 14:40:13   
frosty123
Member
 

 Well then to improve multi put if used increased technolagy by 1 or 2 or 3 or 10 or 20 or 40 or 80 or 160. There!!!
Post #: 74
6/4/2011 15:35:19   
Lectrix
Member

quote:

Classes are all equally balanced.

quote:

2v2 is a mercineries strong point.

Is it just me, or do these two statements contradict each other..?


quote:

Mages don't adapt properly thats why they complain.
Cause they keep the old heal loop builds with more focus.

Tech Mages have been adapting, ever since Agility and Field Medic's extra turn of Cooldown brought us to the brink of extinction. "Evolve or die"; we have been evolving. We've tried Strength Builds, Support Builds, 5 Focus Builds, and everything in between. While certain Builds are successful, Tech Mages clearly do not have as many options as Mercs.

Non-Varium Tech Mages are an entirely different story... though the recent Update has proved to be quite helpful for them.


quote:

I'm sure, Lectrix, there will be a decline in the Merc population when the 3 other classes are introduced.

I dunno about that. Something about the name "War Master" scares me...
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 75
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