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=AQ= AntiGuardian Armors

 
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7/6/2011 5:36:53   
infuturity
Member

AntiGuardian Armors




HERE(info submission thanks to IMR)




This is the thread in which to discuss comparisons between the new items and others. Unlike guide-like threads created via Comparison Posting you are not required to lay out comparisons in a formal manner in here. But remember - because you'll have read the forum rules of course - do not ask questions here like "what's best for me" / "which is the better weapon" - this is not a Question & Answer forum. Nor is it a general game discussion forum. Only post if you have something useful and relevant to add / discuss.

Threads created via the Comparison Posting forum (which then get moved to this Equipment Comparison forum once approved) normally remain on a permanent basis, whereas this =AQ= one is likely to be allowed to expire.

AQ  Post #: 1
7/6/2011 8:00:34   
guardian marc
Member

I am yet in the need of a good earth armor - was saving up for Toxic Chimeran, but this armor just might outdo it!
AQ  Post #: 2
7/6/2011 8:37:22   
NealyNoBrain
Member
 

I'm currently checking out the lvl105 version as a replacement for TCC - I dislike the poisoning requirement and according high SP cost for TCC to do it's damage. AGA is cheaper SP-wise and quicker (no turn needed for poisoning). Since Solaris uses DB and Carnax Blade more efficiently than TCC and covers Light res, and AoA covers fire res, I need only a nice Earth armor.

Drawbacks from AGA are:
- Bolt is darkness while wearing darkness armor (bit like Solaris) but hey, where's the really strong light monsters?
- EoN is inaccessible (that's one workaround for an overpowered shield )
- Water/Wind/Ice/Energy are a staggering 92% (lvl105 version) while MRM are a mediocre 42, leaving you wide open for multielement attacks. Even Earth is only 66%, yielding 41% with HoRD and Sackelberry.
TCC: Water/Wind/Ice/energy/Darkness 90% and MRM 44/37/44. Earth 52%.
- If you think Solaris is ugly (I don't, Fujin is) then you better skip this armor! It's the old Nightmare plate redone but even more excessive. Luckily the game engine is improving, but I'm ashamed to show the game to my peers because of this and other ridiculous outfits.

[edit] added TCC parameters.

< Message edited by NealyNoBrain -- 7/6/2011 9:30:21 >
AQ MQ  Post #: 3
7/6/2011 11:34:23   
Nerfle
Member

@NealyNoBrain
Some of us really like these obscure, twisted, evil looking armours. It's like Tim Burton and Guillermo Del Toro were asked to make an armour ;) I own the Panic and War armours as well, and hope to buy other darker armours.
AQ DF  Post #: 4
7/6/2011 11:48:47   
theBatMan
Member

BTW, after testing the armor I find that the 105 Chimeran armor outdamages it by an average of 78 dpt. How is that possible? Chimeran is mid-offensive while AG is fully-offensive, so how is it possible for this armor, which sacrifices defense for offense, to deal such low damage?
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 5
7/6/2011 11:55:26   
  afterlifex

X of the AQ Q&A/EC/BS


Hmm..I am not comfortable taking 1.75 times the dmg vs nova(earth) and 1.6 times the dmg vs nemesis(dark). (assuming -23% shields) Of course this is only factoring resistance someone would need to do number to factor dmg in(but it won't even out, more so given it's lvl).

< Message edited by afterlifex -- 7/6/2011 12:00:30 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 6
7/6/2011 12:31:48   
  Msyu

Heartful AQ
EC/BS/Pedia AK!


Once the damage is fixed (doesn't currently work with shield boosts, aka CIT), antiguardian will be the holder of the strongest, cheapest SP skill ever to date. I won't need a darkness weapon, nor a light because solaris covers it. The full offensive also rivals solaris, while giving more defense to earth for those earth enemies. The way I see it we just got a second Solaris plate w/ different elements.

Its true the defenses are poor, so this armor isn't exactly usable for extra challenge battles or 0 end builds or even hybrids because of the inaccuracy w/ special. But it does have its fair amount of advantages that define it amongst the crowd.
AQ  Post #: 7
7/6/2011 14:13:11   
raff
Member

@Above It reminds me of SF Hadouken. It's strong, cheap, but effective if used right.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 8
7/6/2011 14:15:06   
Zeraldo
Member

theBatman, are you using CiT while comparing the bugged (which doesn't work withCiT) AG to the chimera?
Post #: 9
7/6/2011 14:35:39   
theBatMan
Member

No, I'm not using CIT. And neither are any of the 10+ other people who mentioned that AG has a pathetic attack. Maybe it doesn't affect all players, only some? Because it's highly noticeable that its attack is weak.

Dealing 60 damage against 160% resistance is weak for Asgardian. So why is this post-sweep Fully Offensive armor doing 60 damage against 160% modifiers? Ridiculous.

HOWEVER, once it's fixed, it'll be great and I'll probably need to sell my Chimeran... but I need a fire armor... and I don't like Nova... meh.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 10
7/6/2011 17:20:20   
NealyNoBrain
Member
 

@Nerfle - I to have an affinity with dark and sinister, both in game and IRL and really like Assassin and Shadow Cloak. It's just that when I'm fighting Ice Cweam or Flibbity in Fujin or AGA and someone sits next to me I feel the need for an apology.

Back on topic - Ah, I suspected CIT was having it's difficulties ... OK, bit of patience then.
AQ MQ  Post #: 11
7/6/2011 19:59:51   
  Msyu

Heartful AQ
EC/BS/Pedia AK!


Seems 100% fixed now. Thoroughly replaced chimeran's 2 hit offense and my darkness weapon.
AQ  Post #: 12
7/6/2011 21:01:54   
ruleandrew
Member
 

The best focus resistance for this armor is actually dark with earth being a secondary resistance. Fire is actually a tertiary reistance (fair).

< Message edited by ruleandrew -- 7/6/2011 21:05:53 >
AQ  Post #: 13
7/7/2011 2:09:48   
  Msyu

Heartful AQ
EC/BS/Pedia AK!


AntiGuardian has become my favorite armor, so I want to fully analyze it. BTW as a note, I am DIEHARD pure warrior so I can't do a mage perspective.

Normal attack.

AntiGuardian is the 2nd fully offensive armor known, and only has one cousin so far, Solaris. Its attack is 594% Base and Random with 1156% Stats among 2 hits.

In terms of offense, BSP ranks first, doing very slightly better in comparisons (+10DPT), while AG ranks second. However, that isn't the end of the story. I favor AG's offensive ability over BSP because AG's attack is consistently at 100% power, instead of BSP's 80% power most of the time. Many of us have used BSP, and its happened, the 2nd attack with a 20% rate sometimes doesn't seem the occur. This may be just bad luck, but BSP is very dependent on its 2nd attack to compete offensively with other armors. If it doesn't occur, it can't compete. This isn't the case with AG because it always attacks at 100% power at a 100% rate. Of course the opposite is always true as Solaris' 20% attack may occur multiple times. Also a player's preference in the number of hits is important as well. AG has two hits, so in comparison with BSP, it is more consistent in damaging the monster. BSP is mainly one hit, so it is less consistent but lucky strikes hit far harder.

In conclusion, the player's preference in random wreckage (BSP) or consistently strong attacks (AG) will decide the winner in this selection.

Resistances and defenses

Combat defenses seem average at 46 on MRM. The problem lies with AntiGuardian's elemental resistances. 54% in darkness, 65% in earth, and 70% in fire are the only resistances that can even be considered when pitted with other armors of similar quality and level. Other resistances are at a vulnerable 91%, while light is at pitiful 105%. With Nemesis' Testament covering darkness and even ice at a perfect 42% resist, even AG's strongest element cannot begin to compete for space in your armor slots resistance-wise. Forget the other elements, they're all trash.

So it's safe to say that AG will not be a strategic armor meant for challenge battles, because it's inevitable that monsters will hit hard.

Skill

This is where the AntiGuardian truly shines. Similarly to Chronomancer armor, AG receives compensation for its poor resistances in the form of a skill, DarkBolt.

It deals 1 heavy hit of darkness at 1188% Base & Random with 2312% Stats. At first, it doesn't seem any different from the SP skills provided by Chimeran or Solaris, and are all similar in offense. However the compensation lies in the cost for the skill which is only say what...? 53SP. Meaning that a level 136 player could use Darkbolt 46 turns in a row, while BSP's Solar Call can only be used 10 turns in a row. This SP efficiency and darkness element is incredibly useful when farming at Fairwind Springs, known for lots of easy gold drops and monsters all weak to darkness (Reverend Wyrm, Solar Boy, Dragoncat (2) all drop 1500 - 3300 Gold and are all OHKOed by Darkbolt w/ Pure Warrior Stats. Also as a second note I was using Guardian Spear to further boost Darkbolt's power, and yes it remains darkness element).

With this kind of extreme SP efficiency, AG could also replace darkness weapons, as it deals far more damage and doesn't take up a weapon slot. From a warrior's perspective, Darkbolt seems far superior to the spells mages could use because Darkbolt is one singular hit with fast animation that requires no set-up in order to OHKO.

With this said, AG's unrivaled and complete glasscannon abilities are best used farming (especially at Fairwind Springs).




For the TL;DRers (I'm one too), important points are summed up below,

- 2 strong and consistent hits for its normal attack, ranking 2nd best in offensive ability
- Darkbolt wrecks, competing with the strongest SP skills while only costing 53SP
- Glasscannon armor meant for farming (esp. at Fairwind Springs)
- Trash for challenge battles





< Message edited by Speedar3 -- 7/7/2011 2:20:32 >
AQ  Post #: 14
7/7/2011 2:23:21   
chadrizard
Member

quote:

In conclusion, the player's preference in random wreckage (BSP) or consistently strong attacks (AG) will decide the winner in this selection.


Well, you can't really compare these two. Solaris is an anti-light armor while AG is somewhat anti darkness/earth
AQ  Post #: 15
7/7/2011 2:26:29   
  Msyu

Heartful AQ
EC/BS/Pedia AK!


I'm solely comparing their normal attacks in that selection and nothing else. They're both the only fully offensive armors. The strength of their attacks are so similar, so it's only natural I pit them against each other.

This comparison isn't entirely fair to Solaris, since it has a 48% light resistance, while AntiGuardian has no significant resists meaning it has more room for offensive potential. So yea, I see where you're going but I only care about their normal attacks in that statement.



< Message edited by Speedar3 -- 7/7/2011 2:35:37 >
AQ  Post #: 16
7/7/2011 2:52:45   
gold
Member

Hmm... I almost forgot to do that...

Better get a temporary Guardian Blade for where I farm xD
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 17
7/7/2011 3:26:36   
el willo
Member

I believe Guardian Spear's boost doesn't apply for skills, as they're technically coded as spells, while weapon boosts only apply to normal player attacks and specials. As such, the following in bold to not apply to Dark Bolt or Solar Call!:

quote:

All these boosts are effects, and only apply to normal Player attacks and weapon Specials. For example, Kindred's healing (which is treated as an "other") doesn't get the boosts.

All attacks deal *132/109 damage, to account for the weird elements.
The Special is to summon the Guardian Dragon, which happens 5% of the time.
To account for the low special rate, the weapon deals *1.021 damage (for the staff) or *1.055 damage (for everything else).


In addition, accuracy leans do not apply either. Tricky wording. However, weapons with high raw stats are superior when combined with skills. *tonbogiriahem*

< Message edited by el willo -- 7/7/2011 3:28:09 >
AQ  Post #: 18
7/7/2011 3:29:14   
Cataclysm
The fanciest of moustaches


Skills are typically coded in as a normal player attack, if memory serves. There's no mention of if DarkBolt counts as a Player Attack or an Other in the info subs, though.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 19
7/7/2011 12:26:14   
  Msyu

Heartful AQ
EC/BS/Pedia AK!


@ el willo You seem right about omnielemental boosts & other compensation boosts not applying to skills after I doing tests on my own. However, the info. subs usually state if the skill is treated as a spell, and rarely state it is treated as a player attack.

Taking a look at the info sub. for Majestic Cyber-Rex Rider, Dual Lasers are treated as a spell, meaning that weapon stats are not used.

Then there's the Energy Breath, the another generic post-sweep double damage SP skill. The sub. states it's treated as a normal player attack and weapon special can occur. So I'm really lead to assume it takes its stats from the weapon the player is using, which it clearly does. However, the real question is whether or not weapon effects & leans are included in SP skills.

I can think of two examples,

- Changing Staff V. When it is put into melee mode, the effect is 4/3 listed Base and Random. This certainly concurs with the assumption that weapon effects are included in SP skills.

- Hourglass Battleaxe Z. On the 5th attack, the Hourglass deals 181.6% normal damage. This 5th attack is always abused with SP skills because I know for a fact it does boost the damage of SP skills nearly double.

Yea, I should really stop making assumptions though. Would need a staff member to help.
AQ  Post #: 20
7/7/2011 12:43:31   
el willo
Member

quote:

3) Because of their 0% special rate, Irolustre's Claw and Crane Fans will have a 100% success rate with Solar Call. For this reason (and because their damage mods apply to normal attacks and specials ONLY), neither of these weapons apply their BtH leans or damage mods.
3a) This also means that Crane Fan doesn't *have* an Accurate or Power mode with Solar Call, so it will be shown in one entry only
3b) This also means that (with specials included) Oaklore *will* take it's -8 BtH and appropriate damage mod on the special, but not the -4 on the normal attack


Blazing Solaris doesn't list Solar Call! as a spell either, but according to infuturity, weapons like Beautiful Crane Fan and Oaklore Crusher dont receive their boosts. I assume it applies with AG.
A staff should confirm the info to us >.<

OT: Thanks to AG, I can very easily beat a lot of monsters due to the insanely powerful Dark Bolt. I can even beat Conflagrative Infernomancer Pir'os the Searing with ease.
AQ  Post #: 21
7/7/2011 13:12:09   
  Msyu

Heartful AQ
EC/BS/Pedia AK!


Wow and there you go, 70% fire isn't as crippling as it is feared. But I can't do it <_<.
AQ  Post #: 22
7/7/2011 16:46:19   
Redsoxftw
Member

Wait so does the 132/109 boost apply to skills or not? Cause i asked this in Q and A recently and someone said that it does, along with CIT.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 23
7/7/2011 17:01:07   
  Msyu

Heartful AQ
EC/BS/Pedia AK!


I'm leaning towards no, 132/109 boost doesn't apply to Darkbolt. I asked in Q&A too, partially answered.
AQ  Post #: 24
7/8/2011 0:26:35   
Banango
Member

The resistances really aren't that good.....but Darkbolt is just absolutely GODLY
AQ  Post #: 25
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