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RE: =HS= Power Balancing for PvP (updated Feb 9th)

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12/8/2011 18:43:02   
Twighlight Sky
Member

I can understand most of the changes. However, I dislike the change to death touch, simply because it was hard enough just to GET the skill, and increasing cooldown time makes the work put in to get it not as valid. Maybe if they increased the drop rate, too, then it would make sense. Yes it is an overpowered skill, but it is also difficult to get.

Death Touch is still a very powerful nuke ability, I limited it's ability to after kill and force players to use it more strategically than on cool down, by increasing the cool down. It is definitely hard to get, but I feel it is still a very very strong ability for pvp. ~Dumoose

< Message edited by Dumoose -- 12/9/2011 19:07:22 >
DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 51
12/8/2011 18:47:55   
kamiry
Member
 

 @ link and anti no lie alot seems different between you two in pvp ive noticed it alot.. if yall wanna consider ppl elites then thats nice i guess iam part of that little circle im not that known nor do i care ya know but yall changed towards each other alot... there was a time we all used to be united,,, back to the mainsubject though,,

the nerfs the nerfs the nerfs,,, the ones that kinda made me iffy is the warrior spirit debuff and possibly the haste debuff on shadow embrace like i'd say i love those two skills and i used em in my main pvp rotation as a haste guy in pvp.. and with that build that i did make for haste it was so good did it need a reduce yes BUT i dont think shadowembrace needed a haste reduce or damage reduce lol... tbh i thought the skill was just fine.. for stupe i wish the cooldown was 20sec or maybe even 25 secs... i mean i like not using my stupe as much anymore but still it was a rare skill so.. i'd say give it rare treatment ae.... overall i love herosmash i love it way over aqw because of soooo much custimization but all herosmash needs is a lil bit more tweaks AE i love yall to the fullest PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE... PLEASE PLEASE lol... change the lag issues in 1v1 other then 1v1 pvp seems soooo FINE TO ME idk about anyone else... AE KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK AND KEEP ON TRUCKIN! i know its possibly hard for yall to do all this but i thank yall for making wonderful games PEACE!
AQW  Post #: 52
12/8/2011 20:22:05   
Drakkoniss
Creative!
Constructive!


 Well, I just spent some time on an alt, watching Linklink fight (monsters), and I can confirm he can hit over 1k with his build.

I also agree with the fact that many of the rares need higher level updates... probably not stupifacio, but still. There should be some sort of turn-in shop where you can exchange money and an old power for a higher lv version of a rare power. Maybe PvP currency could be used...

Anyway, I think I'll read this thread more, and comment on some more things on here later. Link is by no means an idiot, btw. I heard someone/some people may have been insulting his intellect on here.
DF  Post #: 53
12/8/2011 20:24:38   
Antithesis
Member

^Regardless, he loves to flame apparently. I have also proven (today, actually) that he can be beaten. Not on my main build... It wasn't even a close match, actually.

I feel like there is a lot of hype over nothing, let's just wait for the leaderboards before we start judging skill.

EDIT: Also, Shadow wasn't insulting his intelligence. Link referred to AE as incompetent, whilst using horrible grammar/punctuation, and this was both ironic and exploitable at the same time. Nobody is calling anybody stupid.
However, as far as I'm concerned I haven't changed one bit. I just... "respond poorly" to people with an ego the size of Jupiter.

< Message edited by Antithesis -- 12/8/2011 20:28:08 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 54
12/8/2011 20:39:23   
Drakkoniss
Creative!
Constructive!


 Well nobody's unbeatable, anyway.

I am not sure about the leaderboard thing, though, because it depends on what criteria it actually has listed, such as ammounts of wins, not overall skill. Maybe if it shows percentage, it could be argued, but then again, testing builds that don't work out tends to lower win %'s.
DF  Post #: 55
12/8/2011 20:43:33   
Charries
Member

quote:

..to people with an ego the size of Jupiter.


Jupiter huh? I haven't heard that one before. Oh and very well said Anti, that is why I first nominated you as a PVPPNPC, I guess we'll have to wait and see who stands on top when the leader boards are released...

I am very much looking forward to the whole leader board idea and I think that balancing the powers was a necessary step to see whom out of the many players is really the best.
AQW  Post #: 56
12/9/2011 0:23:52   
HarmonicShadow
Member

Uhm.. not to get in the way of our personal problems and AE change criteria.
So we should get this personal problem in our own time and get back to discussing the power changes through HS system for the sake of the game we all share and instead of having personal dispute.
we should set aside our problems and make HS better rather than having arguments.

Now back on the subject and let's focus.

Shadow embrace: The duration has been made better to cover the graphical effects but the shadow haste is a little lessen so making the time and moral effort to get that skill is about lowered by a small percentage in social standards.

Stupefacio: The cool down effort to make it is valid in PvP standards but let's not forget that we also use to fight OUTSIDE the arena as well, so in survival standards. you are sending them to a genocide effect by raising the cooldown to about twice or even more of it's average standard for outside boss fights. a lot of them are effected and yet now they are sent out to die when the next generation bosses are more stronger I.E. like the wicked wolfman and un death. so probably the best thing is like some others said, make it about 20 or 25 cool down to make it justified on outside and inside pvp standards.

Warrior Spirit: For all we know, we have no means to even abuse it, it's been good to us and basically it's a fair in all aspects, the only thing is now is that using it on boss fights outside is now turning it's great value of the status [Rare] down and for the current time, warrior is still good but we're baffled by WHY on earth it needs tweeking..

To the rest of the skills. all i can say about it is.
I have no idea.
{From your Divider, Bunn-err.. Xervos.}
DF MQ AQW  Post #: 57
12/9/2011 1:13:47   
Sir Night
Member

quote:

make it about 20 or 25 cool down to make it justified on outside and inside pvp standards.


If they did that then they would also need to significantly shorten Bash's cooldown to make it fair for non-Stupefacio users. Really I don't think that the small cooldown advantage that Bash has over Stup now is even enough to balance out the advantages that Stupefacio has over Bash.

But even besides that, think about what would happen if the cooldown were lowered down to 20 seconds. You use Stupefacio which lasts for 5 seconds. When that ends you immediately follow up with Bash which is another 3 seconds. Now if you use Super Speed without Warrior's Spirit or any other speed enhancer there's only a 2 second window before you can follow up with yet another Stupefacio.

It seems like if people really want Stupefacio to stay untouched so they can use it in boss battles then the most fair thing to do would be to have it be used for that purpose alone and not allow it to be used in PvP at all. But I doubt that idea would be very popular either.

< Message edited by Sir Night -- 12/9/2011 2:12:20 >
Post #: 58
12/9/2011 9:10:52   
Twighlight Sky
Member

I think lightning reflexes needs a boost. It's current effects are hardly noticeable.

Lighting Reflexes, at the appropriate level, amounts to an average 25% damage reduction if used on cool down (since all abilities can be dodged) ~Dumoose

< Message edited by Dumoose -- 12/9/2011 20:02:58 >
DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 59
12/9/2011 9:32:07   
Devastate
Member

Increase lvls for the rare powers. Nuff' said.
Post #: 60
12/9/2011 12:18:06   
Antithesis
Member

quote:

Increase lvls for the rare powers. Nuff' said.


EDIT: *Reads the power "Lead Head"*

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'M RUINED /cryhorribletears

< Message edited by Antithesis -- 12/9/2011 19:15:47 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 61
12/10/2011 6:09:45   
darklord841
Member

lead head and disease skill make stupe op disease saps ur mana badly and can be used 3 times during a stun when u have pulsar beam which takes about 230 mana
DF  Post #: 62
12/10/2011 6:24:01   
Devastate
Member

@darklord481 : Prevent multiple posting. :)
Post #: 63
12/10/2011 12:40:27   
Phoenix Myth
Member

I am not a big fan of stun, there are plently of strong powers, I don't think we need any stun powers in PvP.

_____________________________
AQW  Post #: 64
12/10/2011 21:01:24   
Fluffyonion
Member
 

 @Antithesis
With lead head, i might have a chance of beating you XD
AQW  Post #: 65
12/10/2011 22:17:54   
Devastate
Member

The stuns are really of help in this game and that is to prevent the one hit shot skills plus sealing the fate of someone who's about to die. I guess it's very normal to have it in this game. (Consider that most of other MMORPG games have the skill too).
Post #: 66
12/14/2011 23:31:22   
Raeven
Member

>>>>>>Psychosis level 20.<<<<<<<

Seriously, it ends at lvl 15...'''

_____________________________

-The Raeven-
Post #: 67
12/15/2011 1:25:38   
Devastate
Member

Fix the portal. It's just insane how I can't enter to the team brawl after resurrection.
Post #: 68
12/15/2011 11:15:23   
Sir Night
Member

^
Good point, but that should be reported in the bug section if it wasn't already.
Post #: 69
12/15/2011 17:07:33   
Devastate
Member

Well, based from the numerous experience, I found out that by walking into the portal and failing to be teleported would require one to distance himself first from the barrier and try again(near the arrow). Works 80% of the time for me, I don't know for the rest.
Post #: 70
12/18/2011 23:21:44   
Raeven
Member

quote:

I am not a big fan of stun, there are plently of strong powers, I don't think we need any stun powers in PvP.


If it's within your abilities, by all means...STUN THOSE SUCKERS BACK! >XD
Post #: 71
12/18/2011 23:28:18   
Devastate
Member

^ Agreed
Post #: 72
12/19/2011 2:40:16   
Baron Dante
Member

Devastate: I found a working way with the portal is to run up and down past the beam near the arrow. It should be fairly quick.

I really regret not getting Stupe when it was available. I feel most that use it in Defence don't use it to it's true potential there. :K


I feel the biggest issue is that when you combine Super Speed with skills... if the skill becomes ready while SS is working, then it runs out, the skill becomes unavailable till the original timer runs out, but you cannot see it, as the skill claims it is ready.

I can't even begin to count the times this has brutally screwed me over in battles. Considering I currently run mostly a full Healing build just cause it's something barely anyone uses... yeah.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 73
12/19/2011 2:45:49   
Devastate
Member

@Baron Dante : Now that's a better alternative, thanks for the discovery. I should have less problem with Team Brawls now.

I remembering suffering the same situation like you did when I opt to use a healing build, and it's no fun. They should really find a way to fix this.
Post #: 74
12/19/2011 3:03:50   
Ashari
Inconceivable!


 @Baron: The same issue has existed in AQW for classes with haste skills, so that must've been something unfortunately carried over. More of a bug then a balance issue, but it's definitely a bigger priority in HS considering the importance of timing in PvP.

The best you can do is right now is spam the power button... the skill will cast as soon as its original timer runs out, even if its still showing it in cooldown. Not the best solution, but it's a good workaround until this gets fixed.


Anyway, on stuns. I don't think stuns are so much of a problem themselves as are burst damage combos like Super Intellect, Psychosis, Avra Cadavra and Reality Rend when together with a stun. Three seconds isn't that long of a duration when you consider global cooldowns, that's only 2 powers you can cast in that duration, but with combos like above the only thing that keeps you alive is a well placed heal in between powers. Stuns are great if you catch someone below 50% to kill them before they heal, but you definitely shouldn't be able to bring someone from 100% to 0 during the duration of the stun.

I'd Super Intellect is the big culprit here. If any skill could use a nerf, it would be that.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 75
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