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=ED= New Faction Simplifications and Changes

 
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5/31/2012 16:36:22   
  RabbleFroth
ED Programmer


UPDATE: After some discussion, we decided the best course of action with Faction Cannons is to temporarily remove them once these changes go live. With the new changes we do not want to present a pay to win mechanic and have not come up with a method that is fun and that we like to prevent this problem. War Kills will contribute to your starting total Influence when we make the change, but until we bring the cannons back you will be unable to accrue more War Kills. Soon we hope to bring them back in a new way that is much more engaging and interesting than the current system.

Hey all!

We've been talking about a number of changes we'd like to make to the Faction war system in preparation for the Infernal War.
While these are not coming out this week, we wanted to share our ideas with you to get some early feedback and/or questions.

Keep in mind these are early concepts and are highly subject to change.



So how will this work?

Currently there are too many different factors involved in Factions and the war: War Points, War Kills, Kills, Influence, Wins, Token Contributions, Flag Captures, and Score. Yeaaaa, that's a lot.
Some help you, some your faction, and some your alignment, and it's not clear at all what helps what.

We want to do away with most of these and merge them into the single idea of Influence.
EVERYTHING that you can do involving the Exile vs Legion conflict will now give Influence to you, your faction, and your alignment.

You will gain Influence in the following ways:
  • PvP wins (1v1, 2v2, Juggernaut)
  • NPC wins (Within your level range)
  • Faction Cannons
  • Token deposits on flags
  • Controlling flags
  • Participating in a War Event (Frysteland, Infernal Infiltration, etc)

There are a number of systems involved, here's a breakdown of the main ones.

Players
You will now have an Influence total on your Stats page that represents everything you've ever done in the Legion/Exile conflict.

This total will never decrease or reset, and there will be new Leaderboards for personal Influence.

Factions
Your faction's Influence will be the daily Influence gained by the faction members, plus any Influence gained by controlling Faction Flags.

Faction Influence will now reset daily. World Dominations will continue to be awarded to the most Influential faction at the end of each day.
Resetting Influence daily will give newer factions the opportunity to do well, while Flags will benefit active, long-standing factions.

We will also start tracking Faction Juggernaut battles and have new Leaderboards for them as well.

Your Faction's Score will stay, but might be calculated a little differently moving forward.

Alignments
Each alignment's Influence will be the daily Influence gained by it's factions that day.
At the end of the day, the alignment with the most Influence will win, and every faction that contributed will gain an Alignment victory.
Alignment Influence will then clear, and the losing side will start the new day with a bonus based on how far behind they were. (Reinforcements)

The daily war bar will also return, but it will be placed in the Faction page, leaving the old global bar available for full-scale War events only.

Flags
Flags will work very similarly to how they do currently.
Your token contributions will not reset each day, but the factions with the most control over the flag will be taxed some number of tokens.
Controlling a flag will regularly generate Influence for your Faction and your Alignment.

Faction Cannons
As stated at the top of this post, once we make these changes, we will be temporarily removing Faction Cannons until we come up with a more interesting mechanic for them, and make sure that it does not become a "pay-to-win" system.

We're still working on the details of this system, but we do not want cannons to provide unlimited Influence.

Some ideas we had regarding cannons were:
1) A daily limit on firing cannons
2) An "artillery shell" that could drop randomly in battle that you would need to fire the cannon.
3) A faction armory where members could deposit their artillery shells, allowing anyone in the faction to fire them.

With this, we will be converting any War Kills that someone has when we make the change into their personal Influence.
This will give them a huge head start on the new All-Time Influence Leaderboard. We may consider other rewards as well since the concept of War Kills will be going away.


Wars
War events will provide the most Influence possible while they are happening to encourage participation.
Nothing about the rest of the system will change, but the War will provide additional, faster ways to gain Influence for yourself, your faction, and your alignment.

We will also likely track the amount of Influence you gained during the War and have War-specific leaderboards and rank achievements like there were in Frysteland.



WHEW.

Lot of information there, but we'd love to hear any feedback you have: questions, concerns, things you like/dislike, things we overlooked, things you don't understand, etc. Let us know!

< Message edited by RabbleFroth -- 6/4/2012 15:14:40 >
Post #: 1
5/31/2012 16:42:31   
rej
Member

Many of these ideas are interesting, and they would greatly help to streamline the currently cluttered faction system. However, I notice that you did not mention some sort of point system that records all influence earned by a faction. Without this, it will difficult to determine exactly how well a faction has done over its existence, or even to have a rough guess as to how long the faction has been around.
Besides that missing counter, though, I support all of these ideas.

Oh, while you are focusing on faction streamlining, perhaps you could re-examine the possibility of adding faction founder step down? It has been suggested many times, and it is a feature that many players are still eagerly waiting for.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 2
5/31/2012 16:45:01   
liy010
Member

quote:

1) A daily limit on firing cannons
2) An "artillery shell" that could drop randomly in battle that you would need to fire the cannon.
3) A faction armory where members could deposit their artillery shells, allowing anyone in the faction to fire them.


1) But...If everyone Hired George Lowe for X times a day, the "Warlord" Achievement will be based on luck so sorry, but not supported
2) I like this. Fully Support
3) If I deposit a Shell and a Member fires it, do I get War Kills/Influence points or do they get it...? I sort of did all the work and they just clicked a button...
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 3
5/31/2012 16:45:00   
Chosen 0ne
Banned


Wow!!!! I love it!!!!!

< Message edited by Chosen 0ne -- 5/31/2012 16:47:20 >
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 4
5/31/2012 16:45:35   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


The ideas look nice and will greatly help things become more simple. If you want to make artillery shell drops then you could at least put them in a shop(not cheap though so as to encourage playing over buying).
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 5
5/31/2012 16:51:43   
Smackie El Frog
Member

Sweet!! Faction revamp to the extreme! I like it a lot :)

Keep em' coming Rabblefroth

_____________________________

AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 6
5/31/2012 16:57:53   
Ashari
Inconceivable!


quote:

The ideas look nice and will greatly help things become more simple. If you want to make artillery shell drops then you could at least put them in a shop(not cheap though so as to encourage playing over buying).


Generally the idea behind Artillery Shells is to limit to advantage a faction can get simply by spending Varium at cannons by requiring time spent battling for drops. Making shells available in shop would counteract their purpose.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 7
5/31/2012 17:01:31   
Basicball
Member

My personal opinion:
quote:

Players
You will now have an Influence total on your Stats page that represents everything you've ever done in the Legion/Exile conflict.

This total will never decrease or reset, and there will be new Leaderboards for personal Influence.
Will you look at current information in factions to determine a starting influence for everyone? (wins and donated tokens in current faction)


Factions
Your faction's Influence will be the daily Influence gained by the faction members, plus any Influence gained by controlling Faction Flags.

Faction Influence will now reset daily. World Dominations will continue to be awarded to the most Influential faction at the end of each day.
Resetting Influence daily will give newer factions the opportunity to do well, while Flags will benefit active, long-standing factions. I'm not 100%sure, but i think the faction that wins the daily faction 1v1 will win this pretty much every day then.

We will also start tracking Faction Juggernaut battles and have new Leaderboards for them as well.
Awesome ;)
Will 2v2/Jugg give more influence then 1v1 though? my jugg battles easely take 3-4 times as long as an average 1v1


Your Faction's Score will stay, but might be calculated a little differently moving forward.

Alignments
Each alignment's Influence will be the daily Influence gained by it's factions that day.
At the end of the day, the alignment with the most Influence will win, and every faction that contributed will gain an Alignment victory.
Alignment Influence will then clear, and the losing side will start the new day with a bonus based on how far behind they were. (Reinforcements)
Will the total allignment influence reset as well? (the circle in the middle on the top when checking todays top factions)?

The daily war bar will also return, but it will be placed in the Faction page, leaving the old global bar available for full-scale War events only.

Flags
Flags will work very similarly to how they do currently.
Your token contributions will not reset each day, but the factions with the most control over the flag will be taxed some number of tokens.
Controlling a flag will regularly generate Influence for your Faction and your Alignment.
I suggest a higher amount of hourly tax, as donated tokens have easely gotten past 100K in some flags now, leaving newer factions without a real chance.

Faction Cannons
We're still working on the details of this system, but we do not want cannons to provide unlimited Influence.

Some ideas we had regarding cannons were:
1) A daily limit on firing cannons
2) An "artillery shell" that could drop randomly in battle that you would need to fire the cannon.
3) A faction armory where members could deposit their artillery shells, allowing anyone in the faction to fire them.
I like 2 and 3, but only the founder should be allowed to fire.

With this, we will be converting any War Kills that someone has when we make the change into their personal Influence.
This will give them a huge head start on the new All-Time Influence Leaderboard. We may consider other rewards as well since the concept of War Kills will be going away.

Wars
War events will provide the most Influence possible while they are happening to encourage participation.
Nothing about the rest of the system will change, but the War will provide additional, faster ways to gain Influence for yourself, your faction, and your alignment.

We will also likely track the amount of Influence you gained during the War and have War-specific leaderboards and rank achievements like there were in Frysteland.



In addition, i request the following:


  • In addition to the 'artillery shell donation', a token donation would be nice, where the founder could use the tokens to donate in the correct flag.
  • Buy more slots, the total faction places should go up to 25, the max officers to 8.
  • Officer permissions, lets you set permissions for every officer seperatly, things you could allow/deny them:
    Change their own title
    Delete messages from the bot
    Donate the tokens (see above)
    Fire artillery shells
    Recruit members
    Kick Members
    Promote members
    Demote other officers
    ...
  • Influence cost for kicking: how will this be dealt with? if influence resets every day, it's not much of a penalty anymore.
  • ...


_____________________________

AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 8
5/31/2012 17:05:38   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


Which is why I said to not make them cheap. In the range of 5k-10k credits per shell would definitely prevent players from abusing the system by just buying the shells. Heck, maybe even have them be 15k credits per shell. It would be ridiculous to expect people to buy 10k varium and spend their keys in order to get only two shells each time.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 9
5/31/2012 17:13:25   
VIX
Member

@RabbleFroth, I like this ! that's really awesome and very impressive!

We need improvements for those things :

-Link : Head Quarter Board Improvements

-Link : Contribute Imporvements in HeadQuarter

-Link : Founder step-down VS Co-Founder

I hope HQ Board idea get implemented. cuz we need many new options in HQ board. Like Scroll and Delete Option. i hope u guys can make like my ideas.

-Thanks
-VIX

< Message edited by V.I.X -- 5/31/2012 17:29:07 >
Epic  Post #: 10
5/31/2012 17:16:59   
  Battle Elf
Breaker of Chains


I like the simplicity :)
Looking forward to having juggernaut wins!

_____________________________

AQW Epic  Post #: 11
5/31/2012 17:23:35   
  RabbleFroth
ED Programmer


A lot of questions about the faction cannons. We're still very unsure of how we want to tackle this. We do know that they will be more limited than they are now, though.

quote:

But...If everyone Hired George Lowe for X times a day, the "Warlord" Achievement will be based on luck so sorry, but not supported

The Warlord achievement would no longer be available under the new system, making it unique to those who were able to get it before, OR it could be awarded to the person who gains the most Influence each day instead.

quote:

Will you look at current information in factions to determine a starting influence for everyone? (wins and donated tokens in current faction)

Not a bad idea.

quote:

Will 2v2/Jugg give more influence then 1v1 though? my jugg battles easely take 3-4 times as long as an average 1v1

Absolutely.

quote:

Will the total allignment influence reset as well?

As mentioned in the post, it will clear daily, and the losing side will be given a head start in the next day.


Also, some great suggestions so far. I won't comment on individual ones unless we definitely can't or won't do them, but we'll definitely take a look at and consider everything suggested.
Post #: 12
5/31/2012 17:28:36   
Mr. Black OP
Member

quote:

This total will never decrease or reset, and there will be new Leaderboards for personal Influence.

I can almost guarantee this leaderboard will just be top 1v1 AND possibly some warkill leaders if it counts as influence.
Please do not implement this leaderboard, it will cause unnecessary lag.
Epic  Post #: 13
5/31/2012 18:43:02   
SMGS
Member

They look pretty great! Giving newer factions a chance for WD is a very, very good idea!
The changes to faction artillery seems very interesting actually. Sharing the artillery shell with the faction gives more reason to fight as a faction!
Are there any plans to give rewards to factions that hit lvl 5 and up?

The daily influence board sounds interesting, but wouldn't it be just the same things as 1vs1/2vs2/2vs1 daily, with a bit of luck in dropping artillery shells? Just seems like they're way too similar in that sense... maybe it's just me. :P

@Basicball:

quote:

I like 2 and 3, but only the founder should be allowed to fire.

It was mentioned that only the Warlord achievement would be removed, but not the Artillery Master (1k war kills). Wouldn't be fair to non-faction founders.

quote:

I suggest a higher amount of hourly tax, as donated tokens have easely gotten past 100K in some flags now, leaving newer factions without a real chance.

This is the incentive for older factions, since they've got their influence reset daily now. It isn't fair, in my opinion, since battle tokens aren't the easiest things to farm. Factions put months of savings into that 100k.
Post #: 14
5/31/2012 19:00:36   
Stabilis
Member

Perhaps it would be OK if we reset the tokens on all flags everyday, and in place of the current flag system, everyday a flag is won there is a massive boost of influence to the winning faction.

I am not sure what would be appropriate though for a calculation, maybe a multiplier of 2 or 4 or even 8 for token influence?

Example:

Faction A: deposited 2, 000 tokens

Faction B: deposited 1, 750 tokens

Faction C: deposited 1, 000 tokens

@DailyCalendarReset:

Faction A: receives 4, 000 influence

(Faction B and Faction C receive 0 influence from this flag)

Is this good or bad?
AQ Epic  Post #: 15
5/31/2012 19:11:09   
Shadronica
Member

Oh Sweet! Faction revamp woot!
I will leave it to my very opinionated fellow players to help with the refinements but wanted to say thanks for revisiting.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 16
5/31/2012 19:16:21   
Zapperbolt
Member

Sounds like a Great idea

_____________________________

~R1Z
AQW Epic  Post #: 17
5/31/2012 19:27:15   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


Would it be possible to make the token tax a % based deduction rather than a set amount? That way factions with the flags can't go over a point where they can easily get the tokens for the tax and hold the flags for several days even if they stopped investing entirely. It would make things more fair since some factions have about a few weeks worth of deductions already in tokens on their flags and aren't going to be losing it so soon.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 18
5/31/2012 20:11:21   
VIX
Member

@rabbleFroth:

Flag Part :

-what about making Tax for the " 1st " 2nd " 3rd " positions.. it's like 1st position-50 Tax , 2nd position-25 Tax , 3rd position-10 tax .

What u think ?

< Message edited by V.I.X -- 5/31/2012 20:12:47 >
Epic  Post #: 19
5/31/2012 20:14:08   
Mr. Black OP
Member

^
How about 250 first flag, 150 second flag, and 50 third flag.
That sounds a lot better to me.
@void
With that idea I think 2nd and 3rd should receive some influence like 2k for 2nd and 1k for 3rd
Epic  Post #: 20
5/31/2012 20:17:16   
Smackie El Frog
Member

@ the 2 above.

Why not make it a % tax rate for the difference between 1st and 2nd place rather than a set amount. That way when some faction dumps a truckload of tokens ahead of the next faction in line, it will eat away that much quicker to let others have a shot at flag captures.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 21
5/31/2012 20:26:28   
Lord Nub
Member

What in the world happened? I stop playing this game for like two months and now every flag has over 100k tokens contributed by the top three factions? What am I missing?

Everyone just decided to save up their tokens with token boosts during their 1v1 dueling and then all of a sudden every faction dumped them all at the same time? Makes sense....

I can haz tokenz? Apparently I missed out on that cheat/hack/developer oversight.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 22
5/31/2012 20:26:58   
kodix101
Member

I really don't care, I'm the only person left in my faction that actually plays anymore. But ever since I joined and everybody in my faction stopped playing, our faction has raised its level from level one to level 7 and I 'm only a Level 23.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 23
5/31/2012 20:32:07   
  Wind




Uh oh

Taking away the War Kills feature?
Would that mean people won't be able to get the Warkill achievements?

Also, haha those people with 1,000,000+ War kills on the all-time War Kill board will have tons of influence :P Better start doing some war kills

Love the feature, but will mods also be on this Leaderboard too?

EDIT: @SMGS ahh alright thanks for telling me :) I was referring to the all-time influence leaderboards, those players with already 1,000,000 million warkills would already have 1,000,000+ Influence in the character page

< Message edited by Wind -- 6/1/2012 3:30:26 >
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 24
5/31/2012 20:35:22   
SMGS
Member

@Above Wind:

They aren't taking it away, but rather they're modifying it.
Warlord is going away (daily war achievement), no info has been mentioned on Artillery Master though.

The plan is to have influence resetting daily, so no, they won't have a ton of influence.
Post #: 25
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