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=ED= Balance Discussion XI

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9/1/2012 11:34:06   
Mecha Mario
Mechanized Plumber
=ED= Balance Discussion Thread


All balance discussions will be restricted to this thread. This is to condense the many issues that you have all expressed into a single place that the balance people can work on.

Please keep all balance discussions in this thread, and don't forget to follow the forum's rules.

Some things that the balancers would like you to avoid discussing. Please do not post about the following things.
quote:

No discussion/request for buffing or enhancing Founder Armor - Any additional perks that founders may recieve will be at the discretion of the staff.

No "luck" complaints - This thread is not a place to complain about an unlucky streak that caused you to lose a match. Please remember that while luck may seem to favor or disfavor you in the short run, over the long run it does average out.


quote:

As a general rule, no buffs will be granted to rare items. This is regardless of their status as Limited, Seasonal, Promotional, etc. In order to achieve a more balanced system of play, buffs cannot be guaranteed or handed out on a regular basis. This policy has been decided by the game staff and is not likely to change. However, if you feel that your case is especially strong, that is, you have numbers and evidence to support your conclusions, you are welcome to contact the game staff using this forum's PM system to discuss it more thoroughly. Keep in mind that the game staff cannot promise that your case will be followed through upon, as the game's balance will take precedence over personal requests for the sake of all of the game's vast player base.

In regards to this discussion thread, you are still permitted to discuss buffs to rare items, but these discussions must be placed within this thread.


quote:

Posting random stuff and saying how you hate the game, and that there is no balance is not allowed. This does not contribute to a helping balance discussion and is useless for people. Try and think of some numbers, examples, or routes to take when dealing with balance. You can agree with posters, or disagree and say what you should change. Once again, posting "this game is not balanced titan y no fix?? titan = money" does not contribute to anything, and will be dealt with.


If you disagree with these policies, please send Lord Barrius a PM and the issue will be discuss. DO NOT post in this thread to protest these things, your post will be deleted and you will be issued punishments for breaking the rules.


=ED= Balance Discussions I
=ED= Balance Discussions II
=ED= Balance Discussion III
=ED= Balance Discussion IV
=ED= Balance Discussion V
=ED= Balance Discussion VI
=ED= Balance Discussion VII
=ED= Balance Discussion VIII
=ED= Balance Discussion IX
=ED= Balance Discussion X
DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 1
9/1/2012 11:39:42   
Steel Slayer
Member

quote:

@steel slayer
I has an idea just like that on of these last few pages, a passive mercenary skill which reduces incoming damage by 20% at max. I think that is a great idea, its the buff they would need and don't say they will be op because they won't.


How would they NOT be OP with this? Mercs already have a passive armor skill. Also, what I was talking about wasnt a passive, and wasnt class restricted. ALSO, Mercs arent UP at all. I already talked about that, heres the link, its at the bottom of the page.

EDIT: First post? Yay me!

< Message edited by Steel Slayer -- 9/1/2012 12:05:01 >
Epic  Post #: 2
9/1/2012 11:43:40   
King Helios
Member

This AND Hybrid armor? ^ Or in place of it?
AQ MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 3
9/1/2012 11:47:16   
khalidon5000
Member

Steel Slayer,
Mercenaries shouldn't have a useless passive when other classes are able to have 2 passives worth using.
That puts us at a disadvantage.
Epic  Post #: 4
9/1/2012 11:49:00   
Mother1
Member

If I am not mistaken wasn't it when CH got their passive armor when their nerfing began? Why would we want to give Merc an ability that would send them to the nerfing table? However for the ability that is the reverse of shadow arts it does sound cool. As for the scaling it could go like this

level 1 1%
level 2 2%
level 3 3%
level 4 4%
level 5 5%
level 6 6%
level 7 7%
level 8 8%
level 9 9%
level 10 10!%

Making it any higher I think would overpower the passive so what do you think of this scaling?
Epic  Post #: 5
9/1/2012 12:02:21   
Steel Slayer
Member

Mother1, thats exactly what i was thinking of :) What do you think of the defend skill I was talking about just before the old page got locked? (quoted here for convenience)

quote:

I wouldnt mind if we all had a "defend" move, kinda like strike, can be done anytime, reduces all incoming damage by, say, 30% until your next turn, and maybe even stops crits(since you're on gaurd), but would of course mean you arent attacking on that turn. That would be a decent strategic defensive move, which wouldnt be OP, since if even if you spammed it, it would mean you were never attacking, and would still be taking damage. Just as in real life, defending all day would never win you a fight, but defending at the right time could save your hide.


EDIT: @khalidon5000, I agree with you about Adrenaline, what Mother1 was just posting about was my answer for a better skill, from a few days ago.


< Message edited by Steel Slayer -- 9/1/2012 12:07:34 >
Epic  Post #: 6
9/1/2012 12:18:36   
shadesofblue
Member

@above:
The defend move should come with a strike, a % of their attack nullified (scaling), and a Energy cost. 10 energy at Rank 1? Starts at 15% blocked? Goes up by 3% and 1 Energy every rank? Scaling starts at rank 5? All ideas :p

Just saw a super STR abusing CH 29-35 STR......xD

< Message edited by shadesofblue -- 9/1/2012 12:21:02 >
AQW  Post #: 7
9/1/2012 12:34:53   
Steel Slayer
Member

Shades, im not talking about a skill on the skill trees, like Double Strike or Field Medic . Im saying that like Strike, this would be something that every1 has, starting right at level 1, which could be used on any turn with no cooldown(just like Strike). Unlike Defense Matrix or Energy Shield, this would only last until your next turn, giving you an option other than striking or just skipping a turn. Kind of like a "duck and cover" kinda thing.

EDIT: just had a thought, would be funny as heck if the animation for this was the famous "turtle move" where the character curls up on the ground in a little ball!

< Message edited by Steel Slayer -- 9/1/2012 12:45:05 >
Epic  Post #: 8
9/1/2012 14:12:48   
Sh4d0wMast3r
Member

I remember some ppl telling how TM is OP at lower levels so I thought I'd give it a try. I did some offers and bought her some var. I was astounded! My plasma bolt is doing 54 damage now on lv15. So basically all I need to do to win is cast plasma bolt, and wait till I can cast it again. 94 hp helps me survive everything and thanks to reroute I can throw a heal in-between or use bludgeon 2 times.Oh don't forget 2 boosters aswell. Basically I'm almost immortal, haven't lost a 1v1 fight since lv10. Sometning should be really done about plasma bolt at lower levels.

Here's the pic. Img quality is bad idk why, was good when I was uploading it. But you can see everything.

< Message edited by Sh4d0wMast3r -- 9/1/2012 14:17:44 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 9
9/1/2012 14:27:53   
Steel Slayer
Member

You got varium at level 15? Wow, no wonder you're immortal, lol. Seriously though, the scaling on PB could use some tweaking, either that or the base damage should just be brought down by maybe 8. Ive seen level 35 mages with tech abuse builds, where PB actually has higher damage than Super Charge.
Epic  Post #: 10
9/1/2012 15:10:17   
halty
Member

I think Tactical mercs should get a buff. At least something useful
AQW Epic  Post #: 11
9/1/2012 15:14:36   
King Helios
Member

I think Maul replacing Stun Grenade would help TacMercs enough without making them OP.
AQ MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 12
9/1/2012 15:20:20   
Promiscuous
Member

The only class without a debuff.
Post #: 13
9/1/2012 15:27:42   
Blaze The Aion Ender
Member

Tactical Merc's are decent
I'm bad with it, but R3V3NGE... or his name is something like that, gives me one hell of a run for my money, and he's Tactical Merc
They don't have any bad, useless skills... Maybe stun grenade, but even that can sometimes come in handy
They just don't have a Nuke skill, such as Plasma Bolt, or Bunker Buster
I've been Atom Smash looped before, it was painful

They have 2 good passives

That's the problem with Merc, it's the only class where one passive is near useless
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 14
9/1/2012 15:34:54   
kingpowerlord
Member

Steel slayer, I understand that the scaling is a bit too high but it wouldn't make them op, maybe change it to:

  • 2%
  • 3%
  • 4%
  • 5%
  • 6%
  • 7%
  • 8%
  • 9%
  • 10%
  • 11%


    Skill name: Iron will
    Stat required: Dexterity
    Reduces incoming damage by X%

    X=skill level+1


    Now no one tell me "this will make mercenaries op" because these are the most underpowered classes, and this skill would be like 1 out of your 9 attacks is cancelled out. It would be helpful and great replacement to the skill adrenaline


    @blaze
    This passive would be the one that would bring mercenaries to the level of good class.

    < Message edited by kingpowerlord -- 9/1/2012 15:42:50 >

    _____________________________

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    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 15
    9/1/2012 17:09:22   
    rej
    Member

    		It really would be nice if CH's Static Charge were to revert back to it's original format. A small return nerf (Maybe 27% energy return instead of 30%) would be more than sufficient to bring CH's down level of the other classes.

    _____________________________

    It is difficult to enjoy your cake when your pants are on fire.
    ~Dragon of Time
    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 16
    9/1/2012 17:46:09   
    Mother1
    Member

    		rej 27 percent by the old format would only be a 2% nerf from the old format. which means CH would be able to abuse heal looping again as well as still have an op static charge. if anything the amount gained should either stay the way it is, or fixed on a scale like assimilation with a max of 10 energy. While I think even that is still op'ed it wouldn't be to op'ed to the point where heal looping could happen with this class.

    Shadowmaster, I remember saying that as well. I am playing as a tech mage, however with my lower level alt some players were maxing out malfuction and plasma bolt. it was literally 2 rounding my merc character who doesn't have any kind of protection from malf and smoke. The only way I was able to stop them was with the pyro fly when it shut off either malf or plasma bolt, and even that is relying on luck.

    < Message edited by Mother1 -- 9/1/2012 17:51:27 >
    Epic  Post #: 17
    9/1/2012 17:59:05   
    shadesofblue
    Member

    		Guys what do you think is the order from Most OP class to Most UP class? I think, right now, it's: BM>TLM/BH>TM>CH>MERC (For varium players) BM, MERC, and CH are kinda iffy; MERC's can be good if run right, and BM's can be easily beaten if your stats do their jobs (most time they don't :P), and for CH it really just depends on your build vs. your opponent's build (TECH abuse beats TM's but loses to BH, DEX abuse beats BH but loses to TM's, STR is 50/50 with almost every class;depends on who goes first, usually, and can rack up losses as fast as it can wins). By "beats" I mean that it has a higher chance of winning. For non-variums it's: BH>TLM>MERC/TM>BM/CH (the non-varium class food chain is very close; their all mostly balanced in Non-Var vs, Non-var, although BH stands out as a strong Non-Varium class (in my opinion; that's the class where non-variums can beat me/put up a very good fight consistently.

    < Message edited by shadesofblue -- 9/1/2012 18:01:36 >
    AQW  Post #: 18
    9/1/2012 19:18:06   
    Hun Kingq
    Member

    		The next nerf to bring balance to the game should be Bludgeon, don't care if it affects the tech mage class.

    If you look at the leader boards recently on all three the Blood Mage win% is less than 80% so either these are very bad players or the recent nerfs took too heavy of a toll.

    But yeah the next part of balance should be a nerf to Bludgeon because it is Over Powered!

    By the way I changed my build two more times and if you post by the time you post that screen shot I will have changed the build again.
    Epic  Post #: 19
    9/1/2012 22:17:52   
    Mr. Black OP
    Member

    		^
    So because BMs are doing bad... we should nerf them? GENIUS!
    But seriously if they want to use a bad build like strength then that's their choice because they aren't too bad now.

    But let's be honest here, how is 5-7 energy regain while putting in 9 skill points fair? At the very least make it something like assimilate except you regain a fixed amount of energy. It takes 6 turns total to gain enough energy to use a level 1 emp or malfunction, and it is blockable.

    < Message edited by Mr. Black OP -- 9/1/2012 22:33:38 >
    Epic  Post #: 20
    9/1/2012 22:45:05   
    Mother1
    Member

    		Mr Black op how is it fair that you could gain energy in the mid to high teens by just connecting with a strike regardless or what it scored as long as it wasn't blocked? Seriously while some hits I could justify getting this with (Mean if the person hit somewhere like 25 or higher with it) It isn't right that the same amount or close to it was rewarded to a player of get a 3 or some small number of damage how is that not oped? The was it was before it would do more for those who hit less damage then those who did more since those who hit more would be closer to actually earning that amount then those who always hit the lower numbers.

    < Message edited by Mother1 -- 9/1/2012 22:48:00 >
    Epic  Post #: 21
    9/1/2012 22:57:19   
    l Chop Suey l
    Member

    		I finally changed back to tat merc today because I haven't been merc since 1 or 2 years! and I wanna back up on the bm and ch issue.

    Yes BM is nerfed indeed caz of strength overuse but that doesn't mean people are gonna give up on str and they will overcome it even if u nerfed it twice.

    2nd,CH static charge didnt need to be nerfed caz it gets like 5-10 energy its fine. agree to Disagree?

    I was thinking back a year about tat merc was nerfed completely especially the support and some of the skills removed like smoke screen and technician.

    I want to relive those memories back in Gamma and Beta but don't be too balanced on the one class over another on the complexity of the skills it just ruins the sole purpose of the 3 main classes.
    AQW Epic  Post #: 22
    9/1/2012 23:23:08   
    edwardvulture
    Member

    		Goes back to my idea where static charge should be static. Hey everyone go check out my suggestion.
    AQ DF MQ  Post #: 23
    9/1/2012 23:36:11   
    NDB
    Member

    		I think there should be a new skill for TLM that reduces the enemies rage by a certain percentage. The only good thing that TLMs are good at is tank mainly, and that always seems to fail miserably somehow against other classes. Defenses are the main factor in Rage gain, which ignores defenses and Mineral Armor. Surgical reduces Rage gain but most TLMs can't get around to using it since it costs 32 energy and even then, it's a weak skill unless maxed. This new skill will replace Field Commander (which is under powered right away compared to Mercenary's Blood Commander). Then Surgical Strike's Rage reduce effect will be taken away and the life steal will be buffed to 50% to support TLM's overall tankiness.

    Description: Strikes a target, reducing their Rage
    Level 1: 15% Rage reduce
    Level 2: 23% Rage reduce
    Level 3: 31% Rage reduce
    Level 4: 39% Rage reduce
    Level 5: 45% Rage reduce
    Level 6: 51% Rage reduce
    Level 7: 57% Rage reduce
    Level 8: 63% Rage reduce
    Level 9: 69% Rage reduce
    Level 10: 75% Rage reduce
    Energy Required: 9 +1/level (so 18 energy MAX)
    Stat Required: None
    Weapon Required: None
    Level Required: 2
    Warm up: 0, Cool down: 3 (to stop people from looping and preventing the other player from reaching Rage forever)

    Haven't come up with a name yet, just wondering if anyone like it. The skill will be guaranteed to stop the enemy's Rage for at least 1 turn.

    < Message edited by NDB -- 9/1/2012 23:52:02 >
    Epic  Post #: 24
    9/1/2012 23:38:55   
    deltaknight7
    Member

    		how about making static like i was before just 20% and giving tlm intimidate instead of field commander also with that ability ppl could never rage

    < Message edited by deltaknight7 -- 9/1/2012 23:40:56 >
    Epic  Post #: 25
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