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Removal of Juggernaut Mode

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12/7/2012 20:04:00   
  Exploding Penguin

games are cool I guess

Coming up from the previous topic, I decided to create a new one because people were actually only reading my first post and replying, and making assumptions based off of it.

My point is no longer to reduce boosters in jugg; it's to entirely remove the system unless some major overhaul and balance changes are made to it. Varium players are getting 200+ wins with 0 losses on it every few days or even more frequently, but it's hard for credit players to win many juggs without using boosters. The difference in how this overly benefits varium players but stays balanced for credit players is definitely a problem, and it's really only fair to the 2-person opposing team if they're facing a credit player. Think if you were a level 27 and you fought against 200 juggs. On many occasions, you would only win average 20/200 fights, if your build/ally was really good.

Please discuss, and please don't jump to conclusions that this is about my own satisfaction. I think this is a serious matter that needs consideration and discussion as it's unfair to credit players to be at such a disadvantage when fighting against juggernauts, particularly varium ones.
Epic  Post #: 1
12/7/2012 20:05:03   

why not wait for omega?
AQW Epic  Post #: 2
12/7/2012 20:11:04   


When Jug mod came out it was exclusively for varium players to play as jugs, and plus with the gap in enhancements and in power as well as the classes and builds not being balanced of course it would favor varium players more then non variums.

However the staff did make it a lot easier for regular players as they did increase the level cap to make the mode more challenging for jugs, and now with all the new non varium stuff the staff is making to remove the varium gap as well as remove the power advantage of varium Jug mode will be a lot harder for jugs.

< Message edited by Mother1 -- 12/7/2012 20:21:21 >
Epic  Post #: 3
12/7/2012 20:51:59   
  Exploding Penguin

games are cool I guess

@mother1: You make some good points, but I'm not going to bring up my concerns on this until I do what goldslayer suggested, which is wait for omega. Hopefully omega can bring some great changes to ED as of now.
Epic  Post #: 4
12/7/2012 21:36:02   

No, but maybe the losses of the two lower levels could be removed. It doesn't even make sense, getting 2v2 losses in a Juggernaut fight.
DF MQ Epic  Post #: 5
12/8/2012 0:47:56   
  Exploding Penguin

games are cool I guess

@drinde: Never thought of that... It could possibly work if the 2 player team's loss didn't count as a loss, and if they won they'd gain insane amounts of credits (50%+ more than they are already getting from beating a jugg)
Epic  Post #: 6
12/8/2012 8:19:27   

I would argue that one of largest problems of Juggernaut is the fact that the access key costs 25000(?) credits. Because of this large amount, the juggernauts are expected to earn their credits back, at a faster rate than 1V1 or 2V2, which forms some elitist clique that juggernauts are meant to win their battles; unfortunately the contestants must be the ones who suffer. The contestants happen to be some of the most potential customers to buy into EpicDuel. When they reach 25-30, they are dealing with max level players with the most possible advantages. This level of difficulty added just to want to play 2V2 is lunatic in my opinion. 2V2 becomes a minefield, 1V1 is risky as well when including the varium players found at higher levels (26-35 encumbrance included). The contestants can buy an access key themselves at level 25, but if it ruins their equipment-buying progress or they do not have the amount... then what is the point?

The cost to play Juggernaut should be removed, the access key should become rare, and the equality between both sides fighting should exist. _

< Message edited by Depressed Void -- 12/8/2012 8:21:10 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 7
12/8/2012 11:02:25   

Creating the Juggernaut battle mode took a lot of time to create. You weren't here I guess but at the start, there was no Silver Skull Card. There was one called the "Gold Skull Card". If you wanted it, you needed Varium.

Removing it gets rid of the challenge and the fun. Wait till Omega. I can't wait to see the builds people come up with.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 8
12/8/2012 11:06:32   
  Exploding Penguin

games are cool I guess

@Maliciuos Neos: If you look at my character page, I indeed have the golden skull card, not the silver one :P I've been playing since mid-late beta, so I'm thinking I have most of my facts straight...
Epic  Post #: 9
12/9/2012 2:31:39   

In my opinion juggernaut has never been fair, i have seen the strongest low lvl players getting owned by juggernauts, i was one of that strong low lvl players at lvl 27, and exploding is right, see my focus lvl 30 bounty hunter with the best gear gets easily owned by a varium jugg, specially facing tactical mercenaries and blood mages, low lvls need a buff in the juggernaut mode
Epic  Post #: 10
12/9/2012 3:03:24   

By the time juggernaut came, I could not buy the gold card, but I immediately bought the silver one when it became available.

I was still a level 27 credit player at the time, and I knew I would probably not restore much credits, since I would not win much.

But still, I bought it. i could afford the credits, and all for the fun factor. It was very fun indeed! :)
It still is, but it's harder with my build at cap level.
But back then I used a Dexterity, max reflex, max multi build, and I beat the crap out of them :D So much heal gained through bloodlust, all those blocks and stuff... it was very useful!

Currently i don't battle in Jugg. my build doesn't "allow" it! xD
I will see in omega, when the game becomes more balanced! This is a very good thing :)
Epic  Post #: 11
12/12/2012 16:29:37   

I really hope they balance jugg mode in Omega. Or AT LEAST give us some way to not fight juggernauts or reduce change of them appearing. Like more juggernauts you fight, smaller chance there is for new one to pop out and it would eventually have for example hour cap of how many juggs you can fight and then you would only encounter normal 2v2. 2v2 mode is virtually unplayable when you are at range where juggernauts appear. I consider myself good player but seeing I don't have varium and most of time my partner isn't extraordinary good it is impossible to beat level 35 full varium full enchanted juggernaut unless we get extremely lucky.
AQ Epic  Post #: 12
12/12/2012 16:35:01   

@ pallosalama

if they gave you a way out of jug fighting then no one except those who want to destroy jugs would play jug mode. Also if you hadn't noticed the staff has introduced a lot of non varium gear that is equal or even better then varium gear at that level.

The only real reason Jugs have been beating everyone has been the enhancements and with the way they have been talking about compensating player who brought them If I am right varium players will lose all the power they had gained from using it. So if anything in omega jug matches will be unbalanced but this time it will be unbalanced for the jug.

Remember the only reason a jug can win is because they have to power to be tanky and enhancements helped that. Without enough of a level gap (which the staff upped to sometime ago) or enhancements to give extra defense jugs won't last all that long unless someone disconnect on the opponent's side.
Epic  Post #: 13
12/12/2012 17:15:38   
The Incredible Hulk



You are saying that juggernaut is never fair?
Let me get this right to the point.
Remember guys when level 35 juggernauts had to face level 31s (Especially variums), that wasn't fair so they had to reduce it to a certain amount of levels etc

Level 35


Level 25-30 , Level 25-30.

Alot of Juggernauts were facing level 31s which had vast amount of good weapons (Especially variums which were fully enhanced).
So they had to reduce it under 30 as if you was level 31 you could get the delta amor (Basically anything till 31-35, and those weapons or armors or bots were good).

I would say wait until Omega and see what happens........

< Message edited by Blaze Wing -- 12/12/2012 17:16:38 >
Epic  Post #: 14
12/12/2012 18:35:06   

@ blaze

Delta knight is a level 34 armor which means that a level 30 could use that armor. But that note I remember this well as well I was jugging I had to face two 31's that were fully powered varium players and it wasn't fun in the least.

Most players forget to mention this while consistantly bring up how the lower levels cosistantly get beaten by jugs. They hey also forget to add in non varium jugs as well since I have seen them play juggernaut as well with my lower level alts. All people think about are the fully powered varium jugs who fight lower level non variums to bring up their reasons for making ways to get rid or limit this battle mode.
Epic  Post #: 15
12/13/2012 21:09:16   
ur going to fail

If you think about it, if jug stayed varium only, it would of been much more easy to balance haha. for the system its running on now we have to make it balanced for a lvl 32 f2p and a lvl 35 skilled varium person.
AQW  Post #: 16
12/14/2012 14:21:18   

Blaze wings now if you are 35 lvl is 26-30 . 25 lvl no more is in that system.
Since i long time didnt posted nothing here, I dont support you for removing juggernaut mode.
Two reasons:
A : Non vars have better change of getting more credits + exp and battle tokens.
B : Varium will be pro for jugg, but to be fair, they must battle from 28-31 lvl jugging. and No vars ones to fight from 26-30. for no vars if both players are 30 lvl and imagine them both with varium vs the 35 non var jugg. Its not impossible to kill a juggernaught. But if your build ( talking for 26 lvl - 30 lvl players ) is 45 HP or 60 HP and defense less and ressistance less, then you sure will make your self a downfall.
C : 1vs1 = if non var fight bounty full var he lose and get pissed so he want do 2vs2 or jugg. but 2vs2 he only get unluck. When i feel unlucky i always do juggs and thats a fun. Its boring for variums cause its too easy for them in juggernaught fight BECAUSE they fight 26-30 lvl. to be fair they must fight 28-31 lvls. how i said in Opinion B, its better to make full varium jugger bashers, a better opponents to battle.

Well for peoples like ConQeR ( or what hes called )
Everyday he can have 500 jugg wins and 2 loses only cause hes a full varium player but good one.

Non var player can be with ratio like :
every 10 battles = 8 wins and 2 loses or 9 wins and 1 lose. even less for non vars.

Juggernaught move dont needs to be removed.
Just wait till omega, alot of things will change.

I`m sorry if i did said something bad in the post, cause i dont have enough time to edit it and view it, but i was just saying the facts. Goodbye,

< Message edited by Warmaker04 -- 12/14/2012 14:23:42 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 17
12/14/2012 14:38:08   


No, but maybe the losses of the two lower levels could be removed. It doesn't even make sense, getting 2v2 losses in a Juggernaut fight.

"Hey guys, just give me this win fast, you don't lose anything anyway, eh?"
AQW Epic  Post #: 18
12/14/2012 14:43:16   

thats not even what i said

Read fully the post before comment.
i`m trying to say to increase the range for varium juggs from 28 to 31....
is so hard to understand it. Not so hard if u read it fully
AQW Epic  Post #: 19
12/14/2012 14:48:45   

@ warmaker

Not supported. It was done and when it was done Jugs were getting creamed. Especially when they are facing two fully powered varium users. Jugs were getting creamed so they lowered the max level.

Also enhancements will most likely be going as well as non varium will be able to farm for credits with problem of leveling us as well. So if anything the max range needs to be lower not higher unless you want jugs to get owned.
Epic  Post #: 20
12/14/2012 15:08:08   

@mother 1
We are still in delta. there was million posts like mine, but i wonder why this wasnt fixed before? Now is too late i know.
also not true
35 lvl non var to fight full variums 30 lvl ( thats very rare to happen )
Ofcourse he have no change but this isnt happening every min right? very hard unluck u must have.
juggs cant always win i agree, but they also cant always lose. they must 90% winning a fight atleast.

if they are getting too often, i mean too much, then their build is not good.
Juggs cant get killed easyly. even a non var merc can done the 30 lvl non vars.
But ofcourse 35 full var is just too pro for 26-30 lvl and u want 35 full var to fight lower than that.
Lol. crazy thing. never will happen xD way too easy.
But ofcourse alot of varium users will unsupport this idea cause for themselves will be bad this but better than to fight 25 lvls.
2 26 lvls have very little change to win a juggernaught. even non var one.
Imagine full varium vs the 26 lvl. then that would be too easy for them.

My point of the post was to make them with higher for vars, and alot of low lvls wont fight variums and will fight nonvar juggs.
they will have CHANCE. 10% or 20% but still a chance. if they fight full var = 1%...... i`m sorry if i worrying you mister, but you are so much Mistaken.
AQW Epic  Post #: 21
12/14/2012 15:25:32   

@ warmaker04

I am talking about for omega not delta. Plus remember when Jug mod was originally made it was made for varium players with enhancements. Eventually they made it for all players to use, plus Varium players had the varium advantage where as non variums had it hard since it was costly for them to enhance.

Now that everything will be balanced power wise it will be much harder for jugs. While this can be a good thing since some like the challenge, it wouldn't be good if the jug lose the mass majority of the time due to them being OP. Also did you read Blaze's post? He even stated what happened when the playing field was close to even for A fully powered varium jug versing two fully powered varium players. They got creamed and because of omega coming along balancing out the stats for non variums as well as making it easy for them to get the best gear I can grantee you jug fights will become much harder if not impossible to win.

Lowering the level cap wouldn't hurt since as I stated non variums and varium players can farm for credits to get the best gear unlike now where they couldn't without the fear of it getting outdated, plus weapons will upgradable by level so there is really no excuse for them to complain about losing when omega comes.
Epic  Post #: 22
12/15/2012 12:33:06   

well i agree with you if you i talking about omega but i was for delta -.-
AQW Epic  Post #: 23
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