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RE: Epic Duel's Decline

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5/18/2013 15:50:15   
Practel
Spectating from the Sidelines
quote:

I find it amusing how you AK's get on our case about not giving constructive criticism when the devs don't produce any balance changes for weeks at a time AND don't communicate with us


I'm not an ArchKnight. Also, you shouldn't say that EpicDuel isn't getting better as if it is true for everyone. That is your opinion. I'm sorry you feel that way.

~Practel
DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 76
5/18/2013 15:54:56   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 I really don't think semantics will do anything at this point onward to convince certain people of what's actually happening and what they think is going on. I'm under the influence that most people think that Omega lost lots of its players. I've also noticed that there's rarely 2 full servers, and most of the time epic is the only full one and, at certain times, exile may be full. It's rare that I log on and see epic and exile both have at least 700 players. Most of the time exile has a mere 300-600.
Epic  Post #: 77
5/18/2013 15:55:08   
Nexus...
Member

quote:

Also, you shouldn't say that EpicDuel isn't getting better as if it is true for everyone. That is your opinion. I'm sorry you feel that way.


Sadly, I think this is a truth for a majority of the EpicDuel player base, which makes it far less of an opinion, and much more of a fact.

Prophet
Epic  Post #: 78
5/18/2013 16:04:25   
zion
Member

Epicduel is getting "better" if you define that as more features/weapons/events etc. But the population numbers seem frustratingly low compared to previous phases of the game. This is even more disturbing since the devs have minimized non-pvp aspects of the game. Most players on the forums have expressed their wish that the devs focus more on balance issues than more content/features. I suspect that if the classes/builds were more balanced the game would increase in popularity.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 79
5/18/2013 16:05:15   
Lord Barrius
Member
 
quote:

Sadly, I think this is a truth for a majority of the EpicDuel player base, which makes it far less of an opinion, and much more of a fact.
[citation still needed]

Required reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
Post #: 80
5/18/2013 16:07:17   
Nexus...
Member

quote:

[citation still needed]


Citation coming soon possibly, just don't lock my thread =)

Prophet
Epic  Post #: 81
5/18/2013 16:12:14   
Practel
Spectating from the Sidelines


 The only players that I have witnessed, in my opinion, that are upset are the ones that use this forum to get their frustration out. A majority of the players I know in-game are happy.

~Practel
DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 82
5/18/2013 16:14:06   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 @Practel: While it is true that lots of players use the forums as a way to vent out their anger and dissatisfaction with how ED's become, many of my friends in ED who have played quite a lot are unhappy with the way it's headed.
Epic  Post #: 83
5/18/2013 16:15:41   
Nexus...
Member

quote:

A majority of the players I know in-game are happy.


I think thats because the only ones who still play, are the ones who are new, or can tolerate the history of this game (which most of us veterans cannot).

Prophet
Epic  Post #: 84
5/18/2013 16:27:29   
Lord Barrius
Member
 

 Now I'm afraid I'm going to have to make another point that will most likely be taken the wrong way, but needs to be said:

If you're not playing the game because you chose not to, due to some self-perceived slight that the game or its devs made that has offended you....then why is your opinion more relevant than the opinions of active players?

I should note that I try to take input from everyone, even players who have long since quit AQ. But if I'm dealing with two opposing sets of data, and one of those sets plays the game regularly (and the other by their own admission does not), I'm more likely to listen to the people who still play, because my interest lies in keeping them playing.

It would certainly be nice if a common ground could be found that would bring back the other group and still make everyone happy, but that's not always possible. In many cases, what has been said here in the forums was almost diametrically opposed to feedback provided in other mediums. I get a lot of feedback from IRC, for example, that contradicts forum feedback rather directly.

I've played a number of games which I've long since left for one reason or another. And while I have my own laundry list of reasons why, I wouldn't pretend even for a second that they should stop appealing to their active players so that they can instead appeal to me. Several of you have said by your own admission that you no longer play....why should your opinions be taken into consideration moreso than those of people who still play?
Post #: 85
5/18/2013 19:20:48   
Lycus
Legendary AdventureGuide!


 I would also like to point out that only a minority of active EpicDuel Players use the forums, so using the 'view of forum users' to show what all the players feel may not be the most accurate thing that you can judge by. The other thing is that using the forums or another form of commenting system tends to be used a lot more by people who are unhappy. It has been scientifically proven in the past that if someone is unhappy about something, they will be much more likely to comment on forums or on where they bought whatever they are unhappy about, than someone who is happy about what they have bought or what is happening.

I am not saying that is always true, but more times than not, it is. Taking that into account, it makes sense that those not quite happy with the game as much as others comment on the forums about how they are not happy, where as those who are tend not to say too much and just use the forums (if at all) to simply suggest things, ask questions and participate in other ways. Again, not always the case, but just explaining how taking one group of peoples opinions does not always reflect everyone's even closely and how that groups opinions can be proven to be bias.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 86
5/18/2013 20:34:03   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 @Lycus: The fact that only a minority of ED's players use the forums shows how little everyone knows about the actual playerbase. We don't know how many of the non-forum member players left, and much more about the ideas of players who don't use the forums at all. However, I'd still like to point out that the servers aren't seeming quite as full as they used to be.
Epic  Post #: 87
5/18/2013 20:35:53   
Xendran
Member

quote:

The fact that only a minority of ED's players use the forums


This is true for almost every, if not every, multiplayer online game ever made.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 88
5/18/2013 21:00:47   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 Now as LB pointed out my opinion should not have much more weight then any of yours because I have not played in awhile. I went inactive for 30 days so I could be removed from my faction without any major punishment to my faction. During this 30 day period I switched over to a different game that showed me something every interesting.

Whenever some of their servers would "die" they would merge them and they would get sudden surge of new life from old players and new players. This idea confused me for the longest time until I thought about Omega. Why did so many players come around for Omega? Because we showed up for the chance of a new experience. This is why player activity surges for wars because it is something new and different.

This decline is it not something we get for every game we play? Once the game becomes like second nature to us we get bored and move on or we sit and complain on the forums. This is why console developers add DLC and why browser game developers do updates, to jazz up the experience for some period of time.

Now in my personal opinion EpicDuel has stagnated slightly because the system makes minor changes on a regular basis but those major changes that draw us in for some period of time are few and far between. Now I will most likely be back for the war to defend the Exile side for the third time but after the war is anything going to keep me attached to this game for the rest of the summer and really draw me in or will it become stale once more and I will go on another extended leave of absence.

That is all
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 89
5/19/2013 1:40:08   
King Helios
Member

quote:

I went inactive for 30 days so I could be removed from my faction without any major punishment to my faction.


Why didn't you just leave it? woulda given your faction more activity.

ON-TOPIC:

Only a few of my friends are quitting; many stay. However, they may not play as much nowadays.
AQ MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 90
5/19/2013 2:18:18   
comicalbike
Member

well the way i see it is we have not much reason for playing it at the moment my reason for saying that is we the faction have downhill as when we played npcs we got a win for the faction we got credits for ourselves and influence so we could level up as well the win for ourselves did not matter as much as the fun we had doing it so we had a reason to come and play some times a lot or not it did not matter it was great fun, now we have no reason to play as that has all gone. so that leaves us a problem what do we have to play for now there are only wars and missions left now
nothing else so we have no reason to play much now, canthis be fixed of course it can,
my personal opinion not that it counts is,
1. give us something to do so we have to come and play daily
2,u can give us the npcs back so players can level up with then and get credits and tokens without the win if you want
3.how about an achievement daily separate to what we have say like every 50 wins daily you get a bonus it could be like 10/20/50/100/200/300/400/ for that we get something for us and for the faction as well we need a reason to play not wait for missions ect
these are only my ideas but the game has changed direction thats good i have no problem with that. just that we need a reason to play daily and we have not got one and i am not talking about mission or wars they are good but they are now and again.
so things to do daily weekly and yearly as well as well as all the good ideas you have as well thank you for listenng to me and good luck with the game

< Message edited by comicalbike -- 5/19/2013 3:26:55 >
Epic  Post #: 91
5/19/2013 2:49:08   
Renegade Reaper
Member

@Lord Barrius your interest should be for both keeping the current players playing, AND bring more to the game.
why should players who quit have a bigger voice? because if the number of players quitting is rising, something is
wrong. players who quit sometimes post here in hopes that changes will be made, giving them a reason to begin
playing the game and paying for it once again. if the game is going to be successful, then the number of players
joining the game and sticking with it should be higher than the number of players quitting the game. idk if you
noticed or not, but since omega was released, the wins on the personal leaderboards has dropped dramatically
since delta times...
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 92
5/19/2013 3:23:42   
comicalbike
Member

Renegade Reaper of course the wins have dropped npcs dont count now all i notice though is the player numbers forgetting the school exams ect we always had uk time about 7/8am uk time 700/800 players on now its 3oo/400 if we are lucky that was the reason for my post and for how to correct it
Epic  Post #: 93
5/19/2013 3:40:48   
Scyze
Member

The elimination of victories over NPC's were probably the reason to why there's little amount of people online. For a long time, it was normal for people to challenge NPC's for a good cause. Now, since it was removed, it more likely caused people to either quit or slow their pace due to them not being able to adapt.

I don't really care what's happening to EpicDuel. I'm getting bored of it and it seems like every new change makes the game worse. NPC battles limit to 100 was bad in my opinion.
quote:

quote:

The fact that only a minority of ED's players use the forums
This is true for almost every, if not every, multiplayer online game ever made.
This is true!


What I find wrong with this game (maybe Artix Entertainment too) is that we cannot express much feelings without the ArchKnights bulldozing through. Either gets locked or deleted. Criticism or whatever isn't always bad!* You can look through what the particular person posted and think about what made him feel that way. Then, with that person's opinion, you can try to improve the game and see what others think of it. :/

*Even if it makes games look bad.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 94
5/19/2013 4:00:13   
comicalbike
Member

Malicious Neos thats what i an saying they took away the reason we had to play at least the npcs made us play for the faction on daily board now we have no reason to play daily so we try other things and wait for missions ect just give us something to do daily weekly and through the year
but i am sure they know what they are doing they are professionals and this is a new game now so we can only hope
Epic  Post #: 95
5/19/2013 5:01:45   
kosmo
Member
 

 i love this game, i like the devs but i really dont like the comunity.
in my opinion the game it is not ending, its just changing his comunity, alot of guys quitted 4 many reasons (gap, npc etc..) just give it time and new playrs are gonna join us 4 the same reasons. (just my personal opinion)
Epic  Post #: 96
5/19/2013 5:05:42   
Scyze
Member

comicalbike I know that was what you were saying and I probably have the same thoughts as you.
If NPC's counted, I would be playing more often. This will be the same with others as well.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 97
5/19/2013 6:51:28   
Melissa4Bella
AmeSylph


 At this point I think it would be a good idea to go through and explain some things for better clarification again. Let me point out that this has been stressed on the forums many times and with good reason.

quote:

What I find wrong with this game (maybe Artix Entertainment too) is that we cannot express much feelings without the ArchKnights bulldozing through. Either gets locked or deleted.


The AE= Comprehensive Forum Rules are set up in such a way as to not only make the forums a welcoming format for all players, but it also gives them guidelines on how to get "the most bang for your buck:, so to speak. They are in place as a safegard against chaos, to create a welcoming atmosphere for all ages, to give a venue for player interaction, providing comprehensive information to players and most importantly - the safety of the players who visit. For these reasons, and many more, the rules are in place.
If a post or thread gets locked or even deleted, it is always because there was a rule(s) broken.

quote:

Criticism or whatever isn't always bad!*


This is where most of the misunderstandings and confusion happens. Feedback, including negative feedback, does a great service to the game staff and forum staff alike when done constructively. Constructively criticism is one of the most important and useful tools that players can utilize on the AE Forums. This cannot be stressed enough.

quote:

You can look through what the particular person posted and think about what made him feel that way. Then, with that person's opinion, you can try to improve the game and see what others think of it.


To continue this same thought and adding to it: Players can also take a few moments of their time before posting to formulate their responses to their greater advantage by being respectful of others and following the rules. It is not difficult or unreasonable and in fact, will be overall beneficial.



quote:

Constructive Criticism

  • What is it?
    Constructive criticism is being able to process and offer your own thoughts and opinions in order to give courteous and friendly feedback. This is done by explaining what you like and dislike, while at the same time providing feedback that is useful. This is what separates constructive feedback from ranting/complaining and flaming.

  • Does it help? How?
    Yes! Constructive criticism helps because not only are you giving feedback about what you don't like about a quest/event, but you're also giving feedback about what you DID like in the quest. Feedback could include on such topics as statistics, more dialogue, more explanatory cutscenes, more fights - everything that quests or events would normally include. This gives the game staff a better idea on future improvements.

  • Example of Constructive Criticism:
    "I didn't partularly like this war because it felt too empty. To have made it better, I think the staff could have had a 50% cutscene to unlock rather than just a shop to progress the storyline. As it was, I personally was a little dissapointed that this war felt more rushed than previous wars, however I do understand that the staff had a lot on their plate when making this release.
    That said, I greatly enjoyed the boss fight, the animations and art fit perfectly with the song that was playing in the background. So while not one of the best wars DF have done, I still enjoyed it. Thank you, DF staff!"

  • Example of Unconstructive Criticism:
    "I didn't like this war at all. What were the staff thinking? The items in the shop were ugly, overpriced and were bugged!! No cutscene? That was never done before and it is not how it should be done ever. Seriously, doesn't the staff ever listen to us?! The boss fight was too hard and took forever to beat :( And there was no sound. I dont think the staff even care anymore. Best war ever /sarcasm I hate this game D:<!"
    		•
    AQ DF  Post #: 98
    5/19/2013 8:13:41   
    Sageofpeace
    Member

    		you can really say that in game player are happy either, not does who actually do battle most the battle i go to some is complaining about the lack of balance or the choices that we have in builds. now while i don't have a problem with balance which a lot player exaggerated about it i do have a problem with THE LACK OF BUILDS WE CAN MAKE and that's of because of the constant nerf we keep getting.is good when you listen to player when it comes suggestion of new features but when it comes to balance is a different story you can just say player where asking for it, what player the MINORITY AS IT BEEN POINT OUT IN THE POST ABOVE and does player who are inactive most of the time. why do you have a balance team and balance tester if you are just taking in to consideration the random rant in the balance section. this problem could be smaller if the balance team play more often and actually see what's going on in battle. and while the game is not dying is not gaining neither new non varuim player or varuim player and does who are paying are playing less and less and buying less less. i been in this game since early beta almost since alpha and as the year past i can tell you this there is less player playing and is not even because student are taking exam right now cuz i been here before and the server where never that low in player.most active player don't go to the forum that's why they are active at least most of them. now how do you take in to considerations active player voices in you don't have any in game feature that enable you to do so?.
    Post #: 99
    5/19/2013 8:27:36   
    Xendran
    Member

    quote:

    ow while i don't have a problem with balance which a lot player exaggerated about it


    ED's battle system is designed around a few broken mechanics.
    There is no true standardization of anything, there is a huge problem with decimals and rounding, it causes you to feel like you're progressing slowly due to small numbers combined with getting nothing out of stats without spending multiple points.

    Even if the game balance was the EXACT SAME but all the HP, EP, damage, def and res numbers were 10x higher, it would make people happier.
    It would also get rid of the decimal issue, would allow you to use builds with ANY number of the stats you want instead of having to be at specific intervals on them all, and would give the player a better feeling of actually getting stronger when they level up.

    < Message edited by Xendran -- 5/19/2013 8:28:23 >
    AQ DF Epic  Post #: 100
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