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RE: Why NPC wins are good for the game

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5/19/2013 10:07:05   
Xendran
Member

quote:

When have the forums ever been able to appeal one of the developers game changes outside of balance?


Cannons
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 26
5/19/2013 10:12:09   
Smackie El Frog
Member

Dev's took them away and they are still gone? How is that appealing a dev's decision?

Or are you saying you wanted them out and are happy they took them out?

_____________________________
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 27
5/19/2013 10:18:08   
Xendran
Member

The game didn't originally have cannons.
Devs implemented cannons.
People freaked out.
Devs removed cannons.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 28
5/19/2013 10:24:55   
Smackie El Frog
Member

You are making it sound like it happened that quickly...

Devs put in cannons in middle of gamma. IIRC
2 Phases go by.
People are complaining about any in-game feature that costs varium, as per usual.
Rabble is hired.
Rabble removes cannons.

Also, do not forget that it was uberly abused by some mods during the days of unlimited varium to win World Domination's day in and day out for awhile.

< Message edited by Smackie El Frog -- 5/19/2013 10:28:08 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 29
5/19/2013 10:33:00   
Xendran
Member

I was just answering the questions. I'm not defending the devs in any way.
The fact that cannons even existed is near inexcusable.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 30
5/19/2013 10:48:02   
Smackie El Frog
Member

I asked what have the developers changed that they then reversed their original choice, due to the overwhelming support gained through the forums.

And you chose to answer me with something that isn't within those parameters.

So, no you were not answering me. Just trying to make me go away with some cruddy answer so you can try to bring back bloated win loss ratios and massive battle token hoards from these pitifully easy NPC's???

As a forum we want to help progress ED and make the game better, not bring it back a few steps...
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 31
5/19/2013 10:50:52   
Xendran
Member

The damage is already done and won't be reversed, and ED needs more player retention.
Also, just because it took so long doesn't mean it wasn't for the same reason. If they were making steady money from cannons AND players were happy with them, they'd still be in the game.

quote:

these pitifully easy NPC's???


This is under the assumption that NPCs stay the same. All 35 NPCs should be around titan's power (possibly stronger), all other NPCs should be scaled in relation with some custom tweaking based on who it is.
Older 'boss' NPCs should get a power hike.

< Message edited by Xendran -- 5/19/2013 10:53:43 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 32
5/19/2013 10:54:48   
Smackie El Frog
Member

Agreed, but doing it through mindless NPC battling? No ty.

Fighting an NPC was never a big deal to me. Mostly because it is an ONLINE PVP GAME. If you want to grind for hours against a computer then find a different game that isn't PVP?

Also, wasn't the point of NPC's to be how to learn to play better and progress the story mission wise, not for level cap players to earn easy victories and credits?
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 33
5/19/2013 10:57:26   
Sageofpeace
Member

is a pvp game guys to resolve this player should be given starter weapon that upgraded as you level up making so you don't need to farm to compete however other them that everybody should be doing pvp because that's whats the game is about.
Gun
aux
armor
club,staff or wrist depending which class you are

this would really help does who get hack to which go in to 2vs2 with nothing making other player lose.

increase the credit given by npc but leave everything else as it is
Post #: 34
5/19/2013 10:59:19   
Xendran
Member

quote:

If you want to grind for hours against a computer then find a different game that isn't PVP?


I'd agree if it wasn't for the fact that NPC wins seems to be one of the key elements of player retention.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 35
5/19/2013 11:04:38   
Lord Loss...
Member

quote:

I'd agree if it wasn't for the fact that NPC wins seems to be one of the key elements of player retention.



That is not completely true, many players were always upset that they fought PvP for hours and were behind people who constantly brainwashed and fought Npcs for quick easy wins. Npc battle privilages were abused to gain over other players who joined a PVP game to you know... PVP. Just because some people are whining that they lost good ratio due to lack of npc wins, does not mean that they speak for all or even the majority players. As for the cannons we were promised in Delta that they would be brought back soon with certain modifications made. They never came back.

_____________________________
AQW Epic  Post #: 36
5/19/2013 11:10:41   
Xendran
Member

That's an issue with brainwashing.
Also, you guys keep making the assumption that NPCs remain the same.
I've said multiple times in this thread that NPCs should be stronger.

A regular NPC of your level should be able to kill you.

AQ DF Epic  Post #: 37
5/19/2013 11:20:05   
Lord Loss...
Member

Except tell me, who would stop me from challenging a lvl 30 31 and 32 npcs instead?

Removed signature. Signature use is only permitted once per page. ~Tanky

< Message edited by TankMage -- 5/19/2013 11:21:43 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 38
5/19/2013 11:26:54   
Smackie El Frog
Member

NPC's are for people to gain battle experience and become better players. Boss NPC's are for a challenge. Neither should add wins to your character.

AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 39
5/19/2013 11:31:04   
Xendran
Member

The damage is done already, and there are many positives.
If you provide no counterarguments to actual points and instead talk about what "NPCs are 'supposed' to be" then no true discussion is being had.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 40
5/19/2013 11:37:47   
Lord Loss...
Member

In other words you say that the damage is done so why the heck not Bring back whatever did the damage in the first place? So if you burn your finger in fire will you just burn your entire hand off cuz the damage is already done? This is a new phase, new players, the damage is done but let's try to keep the damage at it's level rather than raising it shall we?
AQW Epic  Post #: 41
5/19/2013 11:40:01   
Xendran
Member

quote:

let's try to keep the damage at it's level rather than raising it shall we?


Did you not read the FIRST POST where it lists how and why this is likely to do the exact opposite of that?
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 42
5/19/2013 11:44:39   
Lord Loss...
Member

Did you not read any post at on this page where a list of arguments was given why it could just do damage again?
AQW Epic  Post #: 43
5/19/2013 11:48:07   
Xendran
Member

If by huge list you mean 1 valid point and 2 fixable points, here you go:


quote:

many players were always upset that they fought PvP for hours and were behind people who constantly brainwashed and fought Npcs for quick easy wins.


This, inflated win rates and difficulty are the only valid concerns.
Inflated win rate has already occured, and continuing it doesn't actually cause extra damage because of how out of hand it got.
The brainwashing issue is an issue with brainwashing obviously. It shouldnt exist.
The difficulty is an issue that needs to be fixed.

quote:

Except tell me, who would stop me from challenging a lvl 30 31 and 32 npcs instead?


Only NPCs of your level count.

< Message edited by Xendran -- 5/19/2013 11:49:42 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 44
5/19/2013 11:48:41   
Oba
Member

quote:

let's try to keep the damage at it's level rather than raising it shall we?


quote:

Did you not read the FIRST POST where it lists how and why this is likely to do the exact opposite of that?


But IMO, your first post only says that when we gained wins by killing NPCs, it was more competetive than now and to make the LB more competetive again we need to roll back to this "feature" where players get free wins(?) I dont see a single improvement to it whatsoever in your first post, only arguments to bring the same problem back again.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 45
5/19/2013 11:50:32   
Smackie El Frog
Member

Have you read your first post? I do not think you have thought this out completely because I see many holes in your appeal.

quote:

Players find the leaderboards more competetive with NPC wins.

Adding NPC wins ups the ante by allowing all players a guaranteed 15 wins per hour.


How in the heck does a guaranteed 15 wins make it more competitive if everyone one can get these wins?

Also, you claim you want harder NPC's but then you also want guaranteed 15 wins per hour from them?

quote:

This also allows factions without all-star lineups with all BIS gear and OP Build of the Month to have a shot at being competetive with the crazy 24/7 factions


That is exactly what happened when NPC's were adding to your records. Right now even well experienced players can lose to lower levels and I believe that is a good thing.

Your ideas are just riddled with issues that I would never want to deal with again in EpicDuel.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 46
5/19/2013 11:51:02   
Xendran
Member

quote:

I dont see a single improvement to it whatsoever in your first post, only arguments to bring the same problem back again.


Guess you ignored the part where everything on that list gives a reason to continue playing the game.



quote:


How in the heck does a guaranteed 15 wins make it more competitive if everyone one can get these wins?


It allows more players to compete on a higher level, raising the amount of competition. It also removes some of the RNG from the leaderboards.

quote:


Also, you claim you want harder NPC's but then you also want guaranteed 15 wins per hour from them?


Guaranteed was a bad word. It's only meant to be guaranteed if you know what you're doing and how to effectively kill the npcs.


quote:

That is exactly what happened when NPC's were adding to your records.


You could compete with these factions if you got your faction to daily as well. The problem with crazy BIS gear was caused by how ridiculous the gear and builds were, not the NPCs.
Now that gear is significantly less ridiculous, you can't go around with a BH that gets 50 kills an hour with a 98% win rate and pretty much solo-slaughter entire factions by yourself.

< Message edited by Xendran -- 5/19/2013 11:58:40 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 47
5/19/2013 11:51:24   
Lord Loss...
Member

quote:

This, inflated win rates and difficulty are the only valid concerns.


Well since this is a PvP game I think it is safe to say that your win count and win ratio are the most important elements.
AQW Epic  Post #: 48
5/19/2013 11:54:53   
Xendran
Member

quote:

Well since this is a PvP game I think it is safe to say that your win count and win ratio are the most important elements.


No, the PvP is.
Also, the win rates AND 1v1 leaderboards are already destroyed, and the amount of time that it would take for a players with 0 NPC wins on their account to fully overtake the all time leaderboards is longer than ED is likely to survive.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 49
5/19/2013 11:57:55   
Oba
Member

quote:

Guess you ignored the part where everything on that list gives a reason to continue playing the game.


Probably ignored it as its not a real improvement to the issue. To make players keep playing the game we need to improve the PvP gameplay, bringing back 15 free NPC wins will not by far make me start playing the game again.

quote:

No, the PvP is.


Exactly, the PvP is the main concern so why the heck do we have to "improve" PvE? To make players continue with the game PvP need to be fixed, 15 free wins per hour is nothing that will change to activity on ED.

< Message edited by Oba -- 5/19/2013 12:00:02 >
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 50
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