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RE: =DF= DragonLord Discussion Thread

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6/15/2017 15:01:51   

I have a question about the armor, that seems strange.
when I use the Dragon Lord armor I suffer more damage than when I am in my Death Knight armor.
is that normal or a hiccup?

Not complaining or comparing the two, just wondering if I need to refresh my browser.
I like the Dragon Lord armor a lot and been a while since I used it.
Post #: 276
6/15/2017 17:27:45   


still only doing a +1% growth per turn for me....
DF  Post #: 277
6/15/2017 20:00:15   
Legendary Nightshade

Same here.
DF AQW  Post #: 278
1/5/2018 19:56:21   

I've got a suggestion appearance wise for the Dragonlord armour with the Rage artifact. Wouldn't it make sense for them to get rid of the shield with the rage artifact, considering it increases offense in exchange for some defense. Also the shield just obstructs the view from time to time during cut-scenes. Not to mention coming from someone who's slightly OCD, it bothers me how the player switches both shield arm and sword arm whenever you turn their direction. They can get away with it with a one or two handed weapon but not with a shield.

Another suggestion I have if the team is still considering buffing the class is to change "Heart" into a 5*90% (450% total damage) plus all the hp decrease buffs. I kinda miss the previous animation where your guy does that explosion blast in the end of the move, and I thought the shield was the reason for that cos he/she doesn't have a free hand to do that, but with the rage artifact they can. Half the time I just wish they never implemented the shield.

< Message edited by BladeofAwesomeSauce -- 1/5/2018 20:01:04 >
DF  Post #: 279
1/6/2018 3:42:36   

I'd love for your suggestion to happen, BladeofAwesomeSauce, as I'm not exactly a fan of SwordandBoard types.

Sadly, that rework would require Doveix to slave away yet again on the animations, taking even more time out of his schedule from the other Awesome Sauce sorrynotsorry things they're doing like the story, upcoming classes, other reworks.

He is only one admittedly handsome being after all. Wouldn't do for him to get sick again due to overworking.

< Message edited by Skullkyopi -- 1/6/2018 3:48:29 >
DF MQ  Post #: 280
1/6/2018 8:57:03   

@Skullkyopi, well it's no rush. DLR is still pretty good regardless. Also half the work with this is literally reverting back to the previous Dragonlord that didn't have the shield, just merge the current attack animations in and edit out Dragon Heart. For the description of the attack, you can say it's a blast from the past. Okay I'll let myself out.
DF  Post #: 281
1/7/2018 22:37:44   

I feel that dragon fable is kinda lame when it came out i was kinda ok with his but the re vamping of the class to its running animation and the shield seemed cheesy and boring the skills are fine i dont know if i prefer the revamped skills or origional skills i like them both but the main look for the class and stance seem so un interesting to me and the evolved look seems to bulky for its own good like it just looks like huge padding forced all over than an evolved design
Post #: 282
1/9/2018 8:01:13   

Another suggestion I have for the artifacts is that they should really be about giving the Dragonlord boosts, but in different ways. So with Patience, it gives a 2-4% boost (make it random just for added spice) each turn that you take (which caps at 102%), and it's permanent for that playthrough, (or until you unequip it) while with Rage, you get a 2-3% boost per 1% of hp that's depleted (just to make it fair since it's bigger risk, bigger rewards so it caps at 200-300%). Also with rage, you still have Dragon Soul usable at the start and it stll costs hp so that you can increase your boost yourself (or in this case rage) by depleting your own hp. Both different but effective strategies on their own right.

So all in all, it shouldn't really be about offense vs defense, rather it should be the Safe Long Term reward vs High Risk Higher Reward boost damage. And again I stand by what I initially said with the shield, it should be optional (like click it to toggle or something and he/she can put it on their back or something if you want to be cool). It still bugs me how the player switches sword and shield hand every time you turn.

Other than that all that really needs is an aesthetic upgrade. If you want to save time just add another more realistic looking version (similar to the Necro Paragon Armour) cos at the moment, the evolved version looks more like a tank version (like iron man's hulk buster suit), rather than an upgraded looking version of the Dragonlord. The shadow armours are a good example of it, as they universally look much cooler than the original base classes despite the lack of colour options. Bulk doesn't necessarily translate to better. You can add it as a reward armour for the Inn at the Edge of Time challenge, like the Necro Paragon Armour. Just make sure the Artifacts are compatible with it as well.

Apologise if I sounded like I'm nagging (I don't mean to). I just love how this game has evolved, with it's art style and the story telling getting much better and more mature (despite the puns which I love) and I want it to keep improving and support it after coming back to it (I'm a university student so money can't always be the only solution for support). I understand the gameplay mechanics (trying to make everything as balanced as possible) and animating are probably the most difficult part of developing the game, but it's what ultimately will put this game above other the flash games if you can pull it off (and I believe the DF team can). Also this is coming from a guy who absolutely loves 2d animation, which is probably what drawn me into this game a decade ago. If you want to add even more humour to it, 4th wall breaking is pretty funny, which I know you guys already do from time to time (yes pun intended). Gintama (the funniest anime in my opinion), Family Guy (to an extent), Robot Chicken and Deadpool are more good inspirations for it, although you probably will have dial it down since they're very adult sometimes.
DF  Post #: 283
1/9/2018 9:18:52   


There are a few... issues with your suggestions. First off, buffs/status effects are supposed to reset after a battle ends. Pretty much any instance(aside from seed) where it doesn't is purely from a glitch. Second, that would make dragons's patience FAR too powerful(it's offesnive capability would surpass Doomknight's at that point, while also keeping the highest defense rating that is inherent in dragonlord), and dragon's rage would be far too useless(for one, the cap requires you to be at 0% health to use, in which case, you can't use it since you're at 0% health, AKA dead), instead of the balance of both actually being quite useful in different situations(patience for long quests and rage for bosses, and interchanging them for long quests with bosses).

Removing the shield in any way is also much much harder to do than you think, as they would have to make completely new assets of the entire character from scratch just for one change. And on the theme of dragonlord having a shield, remember, it's a defensive class, a shield makes sense. Especially when the stun is quite literally named "shield bash". As for the hand switching, Guardian does that too, you know? As does every class that's asymmetrical.

Finally, re-skins aren't that easy to do, and take a LOT of time(Necro paragon, for example, took 2 years to finish. And it was worked on by Dage, who I'm pretty sure is nowhere near as overworked as Dove, who is on a class design backlog-constantly having to push previously announced classes like chaosweaver and fleshweaver back so that he can do the calendar classes AND main story in time, is). And for placing it in the inn, that would kind of be unfair to free players since they can't use it(the only reward so far from the inn that hasn't been accessible to free players is the destiny weapon upgrades). Besides, there wouldn't really be an appropriate place to make it a reward since each page has a reward/challenge theme made of three challenges.

However, don't let my ramblings deter you from expressing your opinions/constructive criticisms on the game, especially when they ARE in the appropriate place to be expressed, like you took the time to do, as the staff do appreciate it and try to address what they can to make the game better/ more enjoyable for us. And I will admit, aside from those flaws I mentioned, your ideas do sound pretty dang cool.

Post edited. See your inbox. ~Gingkage

< Message edited by Gingkage -- 1/9/2018 20:12:49 >
DF  Post #: 284
1/9/2018 19:35:03   


I appreciate your feedback to my suggestions. Now let me counter your argument.

Okay I may have went overboard with my buffs for Dragonlord. Instead of patience being on going, how about making it so the boost is slightly faster, but resets every battle. So maybe 5% per turn but then lower the cap to something like 50% so that it makes it more effective during Boss Battles. With Rage, I had the impression that it was made for the purpose of giving the player an option to have a more offense oriented version of the Dragonlord. Because by default, Dragonlord doesn't come across as defensive. It's something that can be diversified which makes it a unique class. A jack of all trades if you will. And I disagree when you stated

"dragon's rage would be far too useless(for one, the cap requires you to be at 0% health to use, in which case, you can't use it since you're at 0% health, AKA dead), instead of the balance of both actually being quite useful in different situations(patience for long quests and rage for bosses, and interchanging them for long quests with bosses). "

Because by default with 100% you still have access to all skills PLUS Dragon Soul which is normally only available to use when you're at 20% health, which is a situation that most players will OFTEN never been in, which is why I like the concept of it. Also like I mentioned, Rage makes Dragonlord a HIGH RISK HIGH REWARD class which adds a special dynamic to it where you're closer to the edge of death but you're dealing out a lot of damage, which in my opinion and basic human psychology will tell you is more exhilarating, which translates to MORE FUN. Also like I stated, it gives you a BOOST depending on the percentage (%) of your hp is depleted, meaning you don't only get the max boost at the end of your hp, you get it in an adjusted situation (E.g when you've got 75% total health, you get a 25% boost to all your attacks and it increments/decrements depending on whether you choose to heal or not, which DL has the skill for) and adds the getting stronger as you're closer to getting defeated dynamic which again, MORE FUN and puts you at the edge of your seat when playing.

Also what do you mean it is unfair to free players?! It's a better re-skinned Dragonlord. An Armor that's only available to DA holders who've paid for the game. We've paid the one off price to get the premium content so we've earned that at least. And it's not like those quests are a walk in the park, they're very difficult which would what makes obtaining them worth the trouble. Also there are items there that aren't DA exclusive so that argument doesn't hold. That was very silly argument point (sorry don't mean to be harsh but it was)

Post edited. See your inbox. ~Gingkage

< Message edited by Gingkage -- 1/9/2018 20:16:56 >
DF  Post #: 285
2/28/2018 5:05:32   

You may have talked about it a lot, or maybe you don't, but am I the only one who doesn't understand why DL has a BPD shield (Darkness Dragon Spirit) instead of a MPM one? Let's be honest, MPM shield > BPD shield in every aspect, we know that, and it should be considered when you balance the armor, I'm ok with that. What I don't get, is why DL doesn't have the MPM one, considerind that it is a Defensive armor (without artifacts) and usually the other "defensive" armors have MPM shield or MPM AND BPD shields, or have another special shield like "Shroud of the Undead" of Necromancer (if you don't know, it gives you +140 resistance of the last element that attacked you, meaning that the enemy attacks will heal you), but DL doesn't, it only has another shield (Earth Dragon Spirit) that in practice does the same that a BPD shield but worse, making the class lackluster as a defensive armor, mainly for 2 reasons:

1) You can't evade damage: Is the same problem that Riftwalker had before it's buff, there is not a single turn where you don't get damage (ignoring passive MPM, but you get that no matter the armor from your items) so even if is a little, you will get hurt, and you start to notice the damage the longer the fight is (and except that you are using the rage artifact, the fight will take some time), but hey, you have a good heal, so you should be ok, right? Kinda, if this were the only problem of having a BPD shield, I would be perfectly fine with it, but then it comes the second reason...

2) Crits and stuns/debuff bypass your defenses: And believe me, even if this is not that common, when it happens, you notice it very hard, if the enemy has a debuff or a stun, and that attack has a guaranteed crit, you have literally no way of evade it, you just can't, so hey, one of the most defensives armor of the game, if the enemy got some decent crit rate, gets destroyed. Just... Nice. And I'm not joking, if you have the house item for seasonals, go and try to fight Merged Alkriloth with DL, and tell me how you do... But getting back to the topic, the nukes (with guaranteed or almost guaranteed crits) and debuffs that have guaranteed crits melts DL, you can't do anything about it.

I know that this sounds like a rant, but I'm trying to be fair, and I feel that a lot of people is fine with it being BPD because they or either don't use the armor almost never, or when they use it, if for general questing, and don't test it where it matters, if you don't believe me, look paladin, that armor is a monster, is probably the best defensive armor of the game, and you wan't to know one of the reason for that? it's MPM shield, because even if you don't spam it, if the enemy has a nuke, stun, or charged attack that you can prevent, it's MPM DOES the work, when you use a BPD it just... Can't, so please, if you want to say that I'm wrong and that the armor is fine as it was, at least test it in those scenarios (aka bosses with high crit proc chance), and if you can, go and test it with Paladin or even Master SoulWeaver, if you can tell me that DL can do as good or even better than one of those armors... I will shut up. (Really, if you can go to Merged Akriloth and try to kill it with DL, just try it) Anyway, to finish, what I am trying to say is that BPD shield nerf the armor more than what some people believe, and giving it a MPM shield doesn't hurt anyone, but will help it a lot to be what it is intended to be. a defensive armor.

Side note: As you probably can see, English is not my native language, so there may be some (a lot) grammatical mistakes, and it may be hard to understand what I'm trying to say... I tried my best to explain mi point of view about this... But I will understand and also try to apologize if you can't read this post.

Post #: 286
2/28/2018 8:44:34   

Dragonlord can evade damage, though. The Light Dragon Spirit skill reduces the enemy's bonus, which means that either B/P/D, or M/P/M will take effect. And it really doesn't matter all that much that it takes damage, as it can outheal that damage pretty consistently, especially if you're running a defensive build with moderate to high END, moderate WIS, and moderate LUK. Also, there are no debuffs in DF that have a guaranteed crit rate. Not even at the Inn at the Edge of Time. And none of the enemies have crit rates high enough to "melt" DL's defenses. And yes, I actually have tested DL against various bosses. The only time Paladin outperformed defensively against it was against the doom amulet, beause for whatever reason, my party had just the right skills to reduce it's boost enough that its attacks healed me. And even then, I wouldn't really say it outperformed. It more just.... performed on the same level.

Anyways, the reason it has a B/P/D shield, is because that's what it had before the change to B/P/D. And because the B/P/D it gave was enough that it was equal to most M/P/M shields.

Also, Merged Akriloth isn't exactly the best indicator of your point, as he's kind of designed to be faced with other players in your team, and the only classes(to my knowledge) that can face him properly solo are dragonslayer, and doomknight.

< Message edited by Greyor_42 -- 2/28/2018 9:36:12 >
DF  Post #: 287
3/1/2018 0:27:45   
Sakurai the Cursed

That's incorrect; it was MPM before the defense revamp, Verly specifically changed it to BPD to nerf the class' defensive strength:



Verly is there a reason why DL Darkness dragon spirit was changed?

DragonLord defenses are extremely powerful. This just takes a little bit off.

In terms of nerfing the class' defenses, it wasn't even indisputably the best since others like Necro and Paladin were stronger in some situations so I don't see the need, but like Greyor said it doesn't make the class useless defensively or anything (although stuns that crit are the bane of my existence and make me hate every single BPD shield with a passion) so that's not the end of the world. But the thing I don't get, is that the class has DragonSoul, the entire design of which is to do big damage when you're low on health, and it worked on DragonLord when it wouldn't have on anything else specifically because DragonLord could keep itself safe from harm for a few turns at least when at that low health. But outside of Rage DragonLord, I literally never use that skill any more because BPD shields are not safe. An unlucky crit or two and you die. It seems counter to the original design of the class and renders a skill virtually useless.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 288
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