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RE: =OS= June 28, 2013: LIVE: Water Card Series!

 
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6/29/2013 14:24:59   
The Finnish Phoenix
Member

Grats kise and Necro on the 20 Quaztk Lords! Also nice to see you Andlu my old rival!

Also J I must say I'm confused I mean Sonja is pretty bad imo.

< Message edited by The Finnish Phoenix -- 6/29/2013 14:25:52 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 26
6/29/2013 14:32:20   
ValkyrieKnight
Member

What I am getting at is just because you can win with a character does that by default make them good. Earth Wizard is okay, but far from a good character. Axe/Hammer/Sword Zards are okay characters, but they're not good. Shadow Acolyte, he's not bad, slightly worse than Shadow Priest, nobody will use him though. There's a small group of players who use underdogs like Clinton but the majority of players don't touch the underdogs being every single water character.

It could be that we both have different playing experiences, whenever I used my Katana (12) Ogre Shaman (14) and Water Elemetal (13) it was always miserable.


@ Phoenix

Using JMagician's reasoning, if you can win with a character that makes them good.

< Message edited by ValkyrieKnight -- 6/29/2013 14:33:29 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 27
6/29/2013 14:49:42   
Jmagician
Member

@Valkyrie:
quote:

Alexis was my first Master character in OS so I know (or knew lol haven't played with her at all lately) all the strategies involved with her. As a result, I pwned a lot of people, even ones with typically stronger characters. It all comes down to the battle style because Water isn't that bad to be overcome no matter what. There are some characters in this game that just don't stand a chance even with the best strategies, but Water CAN hold its own with a smart mind behind the works.

I don't know how you interpreted this statement as simply "any character winning makes them good". I would prefer you read my posts and THEN replying to them in a constructive manner.

@TFP: Well, all those characters she listed are good in their own right. If you pair those characters up with other ones of their own rank, they will excel in battle. Sonja is like Veteran tier with Apprentice title.

< Message edited by Jmagician -- 6/29/2013 14:50:37 >
AQW  Post #: 28
6/29/2013 15:06:52   
ValkyrieKnight
Member

See as Katana is a Master I was comparing her to the character roster as a whole, against higher tier characters ( not just legendaries )Lets analyze Katana Zon


100 damaging cards? 4 of them, including the 2 pierce cards.
Refresh cards? At the time they were useless, she has 2 of them.

This is already 6 cards you really wouldn't want in your deck.

400 damaging? 2 of them.
500 damging? 2 of them.

This is pretty fair for a Master, no complaints.

Fresh? That would be nice but personally I never found myself very often in a position to use this card. I had always thrown away the 6 junk cards and whenever fresh start came up it was always with a bunch of good cards.

2 Defense cards, 2 Renews and a Powerflow.

I assure you, if you ever use Katana, you're going to be wondering when Powerflow is going to show up or when the next time it does. Relying on 1 card is bad for business.

< Message edited by ValkyrieKnight -- 6/29/2013 15:07:17 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 29
6/29/2013 15:23:09   
The Finnish Phoenix
Member

quote:


@TFP: Well, all those characters she listed are good in their own right. If you pair those characters up with other ones of their own rank, they will excel in battle. Sonja is like Veteran tier with Apprentice title.


Oh okay that makes sense I thought you meant just good vs. any rank.

And I don't mind Katana Zon myself it's nice how she can get going at 14 charge.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 30
6/29/2013 15:31:36   
Jmagician
Member

The 100 damage cards are good for wear and tear damage along with the unblockables that are vital when facing opponents that love to shield when they are down at HP. So really there is only 2 Refreshes that weren't that great but still useable in certain circumstances. At least I used it before they fixed it. The Fresh Start is perfect for Alexis, I don't know why you didn't use it more often. Perhaps that is why you didn't find her all that powerful.

I hope you didn't fully charge to 19 like the usual o.o With Alexis, you don't have to do that. I usually charge to 10 or 14 and start ripping away. Fresh Start allows me to regain the extra charge that would most likely be needed for that upcoming Power Flow. That is like a 1-2 turn bonus assuming the opponent gets initiative!
AQW  Post #: 31
6/29/2013 15:51:33   
  Kiyone




Looks like this thread needs a water expert so time to share my wisdom. Note this is coming from my experience with playing water characters before the water series were release.

In general water is unique play style for oversoul. Primarily focusing on healing and fast attacks. That has it pros and cons. Water users can take enemy hits or at times want to take the hits since water is life stall. Let the enemy player waste precious charges on their poisons, cat reflexes, counter attacks, and other stall moves. Water user get the health back with renew and with refresh finally fix were going to get even more health for less charge then the enemy is playing. Which is big help against piercing foes. Who waste the extra charge on piercing attack which we can heal and still have our defense card up. Next fresh start if use correctly can be a big threat to your enemies long run. During extended fights with other elements your normal 10 charge points and can general only play 2 to 3 cards. Where you end up discard or waiting on cards. Water takes advantage of fresh start by giving you that big turn to go all out since you normal be discard 2 to 3 cards. Fresh start utilize them better for your overall charge keeping you in 15-20 range while your enemies in the 10-12 range. Plus a proably use fresh start helps set up power flow power flow. The current strongest 1500 5 combo attack in the game. Where you can play it right away and is 2 less to charge the deathflow. Water has it strengths if ya know what your doing.

Granted going with the non rare water characters s at the moments. Ogre Shaman, Water Apprentice, Water Elemental, Water Fairy, Water Peasant, Water Tick, and Weteye are going to be a harder to level up then your other elements apprentice to veterans due to the focus of healing and defense cards then offense cards. Water is a slow level upper without power flow which Katana Zon and Quaztk have. Which can discourage players sort of how Ice can at times making Katana Zon and Quztk the more idea for an offensive water character to use the more heal stall characters the rest non rares are. With the first phase of card customization implement. It should help the other water characters.

For competitive play. I participated in the first Oversoul tournament. I was primarily using my Katana Zon for it. Where I was main water user in the tournament with her being around level 12-14. I was able to get 33 place with a 129 wins. I proably would have done better if my character was level 20. Even thou my character had her fair share of loses. I was able to hang and give Founder Champions, Black Dragons, and some fire users a run for their money. The water characters can be competitive.

Right now it really depends on how the player base responds to them. Are they going to be auto wins as soon as ya play them. Probably not but if player realize their potential takes the time. They can be serious threat.
DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 32
6/29/2013 15:56:33   
Jmagician
Member

And with that wonderful post made by Kiyone, hopefully this debate will be at a realized end.
AQW  Post #: 33
6/29/2013 16:02:41   
Mondez
Member

Amazing explanation Kiyone! Hopefully this should clear up the misconception that players have against water types.

_____________________________

AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 34
6/29/2013 16:03:17   
Desmodus
Member

I got my fill of water CC. I'm not going to use these yet, though. I'm trying to lvl Arch Lich in case of Shadow Tournament.
AQ AQW  Post #: 35
6/29/2013 16:24:29   
The Finnish Phoenix
Member

What I don't like about Water characters is that they get weaker at higher levels because at that point its opponents will be beefy enough to charge to 19 without having to worry as much about getting overwhelmed by the early assault made possible by Fresh Start. On top of that, all of Water characters' healing cards make a quick takedown less likely than with Energy characters which have more offensive cards.

I see Water's healing theme as defeating the purpose by adopting a more passive stance instead of finishing opponents off, which allows opponents to come back from an early defecit and win with super efficient cards like Incinerate, Poison, Shatter, and Corruption. This is why I'm passing this set up and waiting until the Energy set comes, although I do acknowledge that Water characters can be effective if used correctly, especially at low to mid-levels where they are among the best.

< Message edited by The Finnish Phoenix -- 6/29/2013 16:27:21 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 36
6/29/2013 16:34:39   
Andlu
Member

All character can be strong really. Just look at CC too..
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 37
6/29/2013 16:37:19   
Jmagician
Member

Hmm, I didn't think of it like that._. You make a good point TFP because when I was battling with Alexis, she was level 7-12. I guess Water types are best at mid-levels because even a character like Black Dragon gets weaker at higher level (or harder to win with against the same tier characters).

@below: Well what I meant was that Black Dragon can't win as fast at those higher levels. You could blindly spam your attacks at levels 1-10 and still win against skilled opponents whereas at higher levels, it takes some genius to win. BD still is a force to be reckoned with, but it just takes more to win as compared to lower levels.


< Message edited by Jmagician -- 6/29/2013 17:24:11 >
AQW  Post #: 38
6/29/2013 16:53:50   
The Finnish Phoenix
Member

Well that is true but Black Dragon gets stronger imo because more HP ensures that its passive and DoT cards (MoD and Poison) will get a chance to run their course before the battle is over and that the BD user will get what they paid for in charge points. So Water characters are more suited to a low to mid-level competitive atmosphere and Black Dragons to a higher level one. If both players were around Level 12 the Water user could have a fair chance at winning with its early attacks, but at 20 I just don't see it because HP is too high and the Black Dragon will be able to recover from early attacks and win with DoTs.

< Message edited by The Finnish Phoenix -- 6/29/2013 17:03:12 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 39
6/29/2013 23:07:19   
ValkyrieKnight
Member



There was no debate to bad had really, that Water explanation is basic knowledge. That whole thing simply explained what any experienced OverSoul player already knew. The water CC was the best thing to ever have had happened to Water characters, as with many of the non legendary Light characters. As I have mentioned, I have a 12 Katana, 13 Water Elemental and 14 Ogre Shaman and if there's one thing I've noticed is that the higher level battles they're in the less likely they're to win. The only characters Water could ever beat were characters who were equally as weak, which there aren't that many. Katana better than Water Elemental cause of Powerflow? laughable.


More on Topic : Just opened me first water pack and I got 2 515s and 101 normals. Poo, I need some defense cards :<
AQW Epic  Post #: 40
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