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RE: =DF= DoomKnight Discussion Thread

 
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3/1/2018 17:49:22   
alix
Member

@derpking Am I correct in believing you are referring to Doomknight V1? If so, I would really like to know how you purchased it!

< Message edited by alix -- 3/1/2018 17:50:06 >
DF  Post #: 301
3/1/2018 18:34:43   
Hermitpriest
Member

His comment was made back in 2013, the revamp happened back in 2015, it is now impossible to obtain Doomknight Version 1.
DF  Post #: 302
3/5/2018 17:08:24   
Arcturus96
Member

quote:

if Sepulchure couldn't resist the corruption(and he was canonically a greater force for good than the Hero, both in terms of strength and willpower), what chance would the Hero have to do so?

Also, another reason that doomknight, or a good equivalent simply can't be made canon, is because there isn't anybody to train them with that class(same reason that the calendar classes and pyromancer aren't canon, no teacher).


Two things. First, where is this information about Sepulchure? I can't remember ever reading anything about his human life. Second, the problem of not having a trainer can be solved easily: create a trainer. Since we know Doom Weapons can be purified, maybe we find Seppy's old armor, purify it, and have Amadeus train us to use his skills in reverse. Solved.
Post #: 303
3/5/2018 18:13:14   
Greyor_42
Member

quote:

First, where is this information about Sepulchure? I can't remember ever reading anything about his human life.


In an old lore thread from before I joined the forums, one of the staff said that he was stronger than the Hero. There's also this excerpt from the Irismancer, which still holds true:
quote:


The Irismancer: Not long ago he was a hero who accomplished many great deeds. He had made many good friends in his adventuring, like you.
The Irismancer: Then he lost something that was dear to him. He felt that if he had more power, he would have been able to stop this event.
The Irismancer: In his obsessive search to become stronger he withdrew from his life and his friends. They tried to help him but he wouldn't let them.
The Irismancer: Then he discovered his cursed weapon, the Necrotic Blade of Doom.
The Irismancer: His weapons did make him stronger but poisoned his mind further. Then it began to poison his body.
The Irismancer: The armor that he wears, the armor of the Doom Knight...it actually wears him.
The Irismancer: He has become something else, bound to the darkness.


If even weaker Doom weapons like the twin blades, shadowreaper, and skull staff can corrupt the Hero canonically, think what the much stronger Necrotic Sword, and all encompassing armor would do. Yeah, the three canon ones took years of attuning and growth to reach the point where the corruption is noticeable in the hero, but with the armor and sword, it would probably become irreparable in a matter of weeks, maybe even just days. And the problem about using them is that they're also addictive. Victims want to keep using them.

quote:

Second, the problem of not having a trainer can be solved easily: create a trainer. Since we know Doom Weapons can be purified, maybe we find Seppy's old armor, purify it, and have Amadeus train us to use his skills in reverse. Solved.

And why would Amadeus be able to, or even want to train us? He hates us, remember? And he was little more than a puppet for his armor as well, not to mention he only has knowledge on Doom, not its opposite. The requirement for a trainer is that they're both capable of teaching us, and willing to as well. So, not solved.


And one last thing you're disregarding about making a canon alternative: The entire reason behind Doom Knight in the first place as a playable class. It's a reward for supporting DF via funding. A canon equivalent that is a "good" reskin, as you put it wouldn't be such, and thus would both undermine DmK's existence, and remove what is easily the largest source of funding for this game, as why bother paying for DmK, when you can get an equally powerful class in game for free? See the issue there?
DF  Post #: 304
3/5/2018 18:14:40   
Eltar
Member

First question: Sepulchure? part
Second question: DoomKnight is the antithesis of a hero, its a villainesque and corrupted class hence is not canon and shouldn't be treated as such. Using seppy's armor to create a "destiny knight" may cripple the storyline (we don't know what happened to his armor/ cant be used as a plot device) and should be left alone for the moment.

@edit: ninja'd

< Message edited by Eltar -- 3/5/2018 18:15:18 >
Post #: 305
3/5/2018 22:37:55   
Arcturus96
Member

quote:

And why would Amadeus be able to, or even want to train us? He hates us, remember? And he was little more than a puppet for his armor as well, not to mention he only has knowledge on Doom, not its opposite. The requirement for a trainer is that they're both capable of teaching us, and willing to as well. So, not solved.


Yes, he does hate us, but he hates the Shadowscythe and Doom Weapons more. We saw that at the end of the Caitiff Saga when he healed our dragon and commented on how annoying Doom Weapons were. It also seems that he has regained some of his free will. Yes, it's true that he only has knowledge Doom and not Destiny, but would it not stand to reason that all we would have to do would be to take what he taught us and reverse it to learn Destiny?

quote:

And one last thing you're disregarding about making a canon alternative: The entire reason behind Doom Knight in the first place as a playable class. It's a reward for supporting DF via funding. A canon equivalent that is a "good" reskin, as you put it wouldn't be such, and thus would both undermine DmK's existence, and remove what is easily the largest source of funding for this game, as why bother paying for DmK, when you can get an equally powerful class in game for free? See the issue there?


Absolutely, so let me clarify. I wasn't trying to get a whole new class introduced for people who do not have DA or DmK. I was only suggesting have a reskinned version available for those who already own the class and have paid for it.
Post #: 306
3/6/2018 11:47:36   
Steel_King
Member

Be VERY CAREFUL when using the word "suggestion".

Ginkage, if you are reading this, have mercy. They know not what they do...
Post #: 307
3/6/2018 18:59:00   
Arcturus96
Member

@Greyor_42 actually, an idea hit me. Since Amadeus hates the Shadowscythe for what it did to him (which I am assuming from his comments in the Caitiff affair), what if we find his or another Doom Knight's old armor, say on a corpse in a fortress long forgotten, and Amadeus, since he loathes the armor, gives is to the hero with insight into how it corrupts the mind and soul, thus allowing the Hero to stave off the corruption and use it as as a force for good. Maybe throw in some help from Dove or the realm of Light for good measure.
Post #: 308
3/6/2018 20:08:57   
  Gingkage
Wolf Rider


The concept of a Destiny Knight is one that comes up with some regularity on the forums, and is one that has been repeatedly stated to not be something that will happen.

That being said, the topic of this thread is the DoomKnight armor. Get back onto that topic, please.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 309
3/7/2018 22:02:33   
Draxare
Member
 

its not obtainable in any way which is why i will NEVER buy the doomknight package its considerably less valuable without it and unfair that it can no longer be obtained. If they lowered the price after its revamp then maybe but its a rip off that some players get two items while others get one.
DF  Post #: 310
3/7/2018 22:23:12   
Greyor_42
Member

^Actually, even without the V1, you're still getting FOUR incredibly powerful items as well as 40k dragon coins. And it IS a specifically dragon coin package, at an incredibly low price for the dragon coins you're getting. So yeah, not a rip-off in the slightest.
Also, is it a rip off that some people got, say Chronomancer, and others didn't? Or some people got Frozen Claymore as well as the Vanilla Ice Katana, while others only got the latter?

< Message edited by Greyor_42 -- 3/7/2018 22:25:58 >
DF  Post #: 311
3/7/2018 22:25:07   
Vaulen
Member

Well, technically you still get a very powerful class armor that contains skills which really push the favor of battle into your graces. The one's who have both the original and the revamp are long-time players who, like anyone else, benefited at a particular instance which others were not capable of doing due to ignorance or simple apathy.

And so much hostility to the concept of suggestions or ideas from the playerbase...no wonder why I always gravitated to AQ Classic instead. Regardless, I do love this game and my preference towards AQ Classic is more of it being less input requiring. I do wonder if it may be possible to one day delve into upgrading the armor? Akin to the Dragonlord armor. I know it is already a unique tier of its own, but if the players were willing to undergo a difficult quest, would it not be a proper reward?

Outside of discussing possible improvements, upgrading potential, and sister-concepts, what else is there to really discuss in regards to the class? We all know it is one of the few classes with an original and revamped variant. We know how it generally lessens the difficulty of the game and boss strategies outside of specific gimmicks are not generally required, just the ol'stun, lower defenses, attack, etc. and due to being "noncannon" we also know how futile it is to even humor possible lore for the armor and how'd it affect the player character. Why not simply create a omni-encompassing class thread instead of one focusing on a specific area?
AQ DF  Post #: 312
3/7/2018 22:32:08   
Greyor_42
Member

quote:

And so much hostility to the concept of suggestions or ideas from the playerbase...


Nobody's trying to be hostile. It's just that "destiny knight" or an equivalent keeps getting suggested every few months or so despite the fact that staff has said every single time since the first that it won't be happening for various reasons. Suggestions are welcome and accepted, I mean, look at SWoT. Impaling hands used to be a DoT skill, and decay and phantom hit had their skills swapped, all because of player suggestion that it would improve the class.

quote:

Outside of discussing possible improvements, upgrading potential, and sister-concepts, what else is there to really discuss in regards to the class?


Well, bugs are always present and have to be brought up, and various potential other things that might not have been mentioned yet.

quote:

Why not simply create a omni-encompassing class thread instead of one focusing on a specific area?


I think there already is one. Just can't remember what it's called.

< Message edited by Greyor_42 -- 3/7/2018 22:33:46 >
DF  Post #: 313
3/7/2018 23:04:52   
Vaulen
Member

Shadow Walker was also one of the yearly calendar exclusive classes and, due to likely time-related constrictions, required player-input to properly balance it. After months of teasing it, they release it after having it tested/shown to players, switching some skills to a different method of being utilized or how they would perform in the scheme of battle, all done in a timely fashion to leave free space for work on the next Calendar class. But this is nothing compared to how animations could be sped up, done differently, or a different focus in regards to the role of the armor.

Not advocating for more about the "Destiny Knight" or anything related to it, I frankly don't find myself interested in it anymore (having only been so in the first place due to the Legacy of Kain and the concepts of fate, Destiny, etc.). It just seems that even hypothetical discussions, which don't really hurt anyone in the end and at worse would require a bold, underlined sentence saying "No. Destiny knight will not happen, but you are free to meander about on the topic as long as it remains related to the Doomknight class", are seen with disapproval. As for Bugs, an overal technical support thread would serve that purpose far better than a general, class-specific discussion. Just requires a form.

< Message edited by Vaulen -- 3/7/2018 23:06:05 >
AQ DF  Post #: 314
3/7/2018 23:06:17   
Greyor_42
Member

....But it's not vastly inferior. One less item. Out of FIVE. You get four out of five(Which the people who bought it before the revamp actually did as well, they just got a different fourth item, and were given the new, technically more useful version as an apology/thank you). And again, you're not buying those items, you're buying the heavily discounted dragon coins.
DF  Post #: 315
3/8/2018 9:09:04   
  Occavatra

ArchKnight
DF GD / Pedia


Tomix has stated that Doom Knight is an extremely delicate subject. As such, it will not be touched and for good reason. The reason the revamp came down to Variant 2 was because Variant 1 is irreversibly broken and is beyond fixing. The article on the Artix Support page that describes what the Doom Knight packages has to offer especially stated that the variant will not be brought back by request as it can break your character. It's your decision not to buy that package, however, criticism directed toward the package that isn't constructive will not be tolerated. These messages and reactions to those have been deleted. Warnings have been given where needed. You've been given one more chance to keep discussing the class in this specific thread in a civilized manner and without requesting Variant 1 to be brought back because you believe it will give you an edge regardless of the game-breaking issues it has. Do not squander that chance!

< Message edited by Occavatra -- 3/8/2018 14:27:46 >
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 316
3/8/2018 17:54:04   
Kurtz96
Member

Perhaps I'm not the best person to talk about this cause I used DmK V1 exclusively the entire time from its release to the revamp, but maybe the way to stop people from asking for Version 1 to be brought back is to make it clear that the package is for DC and the DmK stuff is a bonus.

Write: This is a Dragon Coin Package with a bonus class, not a Doomknight package. The point is the large amount of discounted Dragon Coins in big bold letters on the buying screen.

And seriously guys: the new DmK is still incredibly powerful. Comfortably the most powerful class in the game (though there are better classes for specific scenarios).
It like winning the lottery and saying: I won 50 Million Dollars but the last jackpot was 55 Million, I feel so ripped off"

And here is the biggest thing: you are getting DmK for all the characters on your account, including the ones you haven't made yet. So really you are getting (4 items)x(max 6 characters)=24 items, plus the dragon coins which again, are the point of the package

< Message edited by Kurtz96 -- 3/8/2018 18:30:40 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 317
3/8/2018 19:29:54   
Hermitpriest
Member

^Not saying your wrong, just feel you should point out that the DC only appears on the character you purchased the DmK on. That and the class only goes on characters with a DA.
DF  Post #: 318
3/8/2018 19:54:32   
Greyor_42
Member

^Well, if you were smart and bought the "upgrade every character you have and will ever make on this account" DA package, then yes, every character you have and will ever make on that account will have DmK.
DF  Post #: 319
3/8/2018 20:12:22   
Draxare
Member
 

Just want to say I was never requesting the v1 to be brought back merely pointing out my refusal to buy the package because I consider it a rip off in its new form. Along with responding to someone else asking when it would be brought back. Sorry for any inconvenience caused.
DF  Post #: 320
3/8/2018 23:13:40   
BluuHorseOfficial
Member

Yes, actually, the DmKV1 is game-breaking, but that doesn’t mean that DmKV2 is weak. DmKV1 Was OP for a variety of reasons, such as the obvious Life Carve, which cut down 15% of the enemy’s HP. There are way more, but Life Carve seems to be the most obvious.

Also, the package is for DRAGON COINS. You can buy 40000 DCs at $65/80 depending on which you chose, at a heavily discounted price. 10000DCs cost $49 or so on a normal package. The 40000 DCs also, as a bonus, give you the Doom Knight. Like all other (except the 10000 DC one) give you rewards for showing your support: the 1000 DCs gives Elemental Unity, the 2500 gives Sun God and 5000 gives grove tender. Even the way you access these shops is under the “Get Dragon Coins” button on the left. So with that, can we please not have more controversy on the DoomKnight? Even if you don’t like it, you have NOT wasted money: you have 40000 DCs at your disposal.

Let’s try to keep this a positive and happy (for ebil people) place. Two admins had to comment on the same page.

Oh, and what are your favourite skills on the DoomKnight? Mine are Life Carve and Shape Darkness, but I love the others, too!

DF  Post #: 321
3/9/2018 9:20:33   
Kurtz96
Member

My favourite part of doomknight has always been the high damage, not any particular skill. But I like corruption and shape darkness, especially after fighting the challenge fights, since they let us damage Uthuluc even when its chitin is not broken
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 322
3/9/2018 18:03:40   
GammaCavy
Member

I actually did buy the "upgrade every character you have and will ever make on this account" package years ago.
DF  Post #: 323
3/12/2018 6:37:15   
BluuHorseOfficial
Member

DoomKnight is a beautiful class. It provides a helping hand when you wish to farm, deal with a tacky boss, or in General, have fun wrecking house with. It is definitely one of the best classes, though not necessarily my favourite.
DF  Post #: 324
3/12/2018 7:01:13   
BeautyJester
Member

Now, if Doomknight has Custom Color option , that'll be great! (Yes Plox )
Post #: 325
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