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RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread

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10/17/2014 16:31:41   
Oslom
Member

Any tips which card customization for Omni-Knight is working great?
DF MQ AQW  Post #: 451
10/17/2014 16:59:36   
The Jop
Member

http://forums2.battleon.com/f/fb.asp?m=21837999
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 452
10/27/2014 12:27:03   
Gorillo Titan
Member

Card called hidden weak point puts up a counter for 500 that only the player who set it can see.
Post #: 453
10/31/2014 23:46:59   
Luckydude4
Member
 

 I feel it is accurate to say that at this point, every card in Oversoul has a purpose and is balanced properly to carry out their purpose in a manner not wholly overpowering; all, save one. Ice Orb: at best, it's a finisher card you can for when circumstances are extraordinarily favourable. At worst? It's another deck bloater to be discarded whensoever it chooses to show up. As it stands right now with the current influx of heavy hitting, high energy generation, DoT spewing characters, there will not ever be a reason to use it. It accomplishes nothing to characters who can absorb the impact with shields powered by energy generators or who heal at a 2:1, 2.5:1 ratio, while at the same time it leaves you vulnerable to Power-Flows, Sacrifices, Retributions, Fireballs, and what have you. There is absolutely no strategic use for this card whatsoever. Tactically, the logistics of it are horrendous. If you wish to employ a Frost Orb to its fullest potential, you must pay 22 energy to pull off 2000 damage. When you consider that Frost is a non-energy-generative element, this means that the card is tactically unsound in almost every single case. When you compare it to Earth costlessly changing Defense to strikes, exchanging defense for health at 1.2:1 ratio, or Water cheaply attaching heals to theirs, you can see the glaring tactical deficit. Taking into consideration that no player with a lick of sense would not have an energy-generative form tucked away for breaking defensive characters, you can guess why Frost Orb is never used.

This is mechanically unacceptable. You can not have a proper card-focused game while one build of deck is literally crippled by design. Water and Earth, Ice's fellow Defensive elements, can use their shields to heal and strike at ratios exceeding 1.5:1. Shield appropriation is a vital compartment to Defensive decks and I challenge you find a way that Crushes, Trees of Life, or Refreshes are somehow burdening in their respective element's decks or can't play a significant role. Frost Orb is a common card in every single high tier Ice character's deck; this represents a near universal Elemental debuff. The days of infinite shield walling are over. Frost Orb's unacceptably high cost hinders player's experience, the mechanics of the game, and the principle of fairness that guides every Element and the game's design

My harms said, I now offer remedy: Give Frost Orb a one turn stun. Mechanically, we've now hybrid element and master tier characters boasting double stuns with energy generators. Clearly, the principle of single stun only has fallen to the wayside. Strategically, this will offer Ice characters more control of their immediate surroundings, while keeping battlefield control an expensive tool to employ without energy generators, as this card takes away Ice's all important shields while costing 10 energy. Tactically, the change requires no extra cost, as there is currently a fully powered Frost Orb costs 6 more energy for its effect than a simple 4 pack of 5 damage strikers. This six damage is exactly equitable to a petrify, only Snow Orb is usually more rare, the actual card costs 10 energy to use, and it has the effect of removing all of the character's shields.
Post #: 454
10/31/2014 23:55:37   
Gorillo Titan
Member

Might as well just switch some of the cards to differnet elements.
Post #: 455
11/1/2014 4:29:43   
The Finnish Phoenix
Member

@Triadan: Interesting idea, but I've a few reservations:

1) There isn't a card called Frost Orb in-game. I don't bring this up in the spirit of semantic pedantry, I just want clarity with regards to which of the "Orb" cards you're referring to, the current in-game ones being Snow Orb (5 energy) and Ice Orb (10 energy). Based on the context I assume you're using Ice Orb and Frost Orb invariably and don't bring up Snow Orb, but then shouldn't something be done about Snow Orb too which provides the same ratio of conversion on a lower scale?

2) Ice Orb's scale allows it to be consistently used as a finisher. Currently, Shatter is the only way by which most Ice characters' native decks provide for an offensive ratio exceeding 150 damage per 1 energy (although Frost Dragon can do so through combos involving Bash/Thrash as can a few Ice characters with Sacrifice/Empower), but Ice Wall serves effectively on the defensive side in lieu of offensive supplementation, it just takes a little longer which makes sense given Ice's thematic flavouring. Granted, Ice may be due for more powerful characters soon with the advent of very strong recent additions like Omni Knight, but December isn't too far away and has been known to provide an abundance of Ice characters.

3)
quote:


I feel it is accurate to say that at this point, every card in Oversoul has a purpose and is balanced properly to carry out their purpose all, save one. Ice Orb


I find the likelihood of my using Inferno to carry out its purpose to be much less than that of my using Ice Orb to carry out its purpose. Inferno's low scale rarely allows it to be a finisher, and if it's not, it's a waste of energy that could be better used for a plethora of available cards exceeding 7500%* energy efficiency. And yet, all Fire characters have at least two copies of Inferno save for Fire's two dual-elementals in Mana Guardian and Void Rebirth (coincidentally, Fire's best characters), a few irrelevant Apprentices in Fire Bat and Burn Mage which are irrelevant because they're so weak in general, and LoveWeaver which still has one copy and came out quite a while ago. 15 of Fire's 20 characters have at least 2 Infernoes. That it be required for all pure Fire characters to be outfitted with two or more native copies of Inferno is the greatest design flaw in OverSoul. Even Fire's Legendaries aren't immune, both of which have SG costs of 10 that clearly aren't reflected in their decks' capacities.

*adjusted to the multiplication of all figures by 100, previously understood as 75% efficiency (abysmal in either case, particularly as Inferno can't be boosted as piercing attacks coded as spells can).

4) To me, Snow Orb is significantly more problematic than Ice Orb because of its lower scale that makes it less suitable for the niche of a finisher, my working justification for the Orbs' inefficiency. I propose that Snow Orb be replaced by Crush wherever it would be included in the native decks of future Ice characters beyond Veteran rank. I find it particularly counterintuitive that the Ice characters that are supposed to be and otherwise are among the most powerful (read Cosoma Titan, Frost Dragon, and Frost Queen) are outfitted with Snow Orb instead of Ice Orb (especially Frost Dragon which has TWO.) Perhaps the idea is for players to use Snow Orb twice over two deck cycles where they would discard and then use an Ice Orb in its place, but the problem with such logic is that the first use of Snow Orb in the middle of the battle would have severe repercussions given its inefficiency, losing the player the security through slowly accumulated gains to later play the second. Snow Orb makes more sense as a mainstay on Ice Apprentices and Veterans, as it can still appropriately be considered a finisher when the lower sub-10 level ranges before the Master rank reflect Snow Orb's lower scale through the lower base HP, so Snow Orb is at lower levels is a near-equivalent of what Ice Orb is at higher levels. I also understand that you regularly use Frost Void which I find weaker than Master Barbarian, its F2P contemporary, due to having a redundant second finisher at the cost of 500 native shields. I wouldn't at all mind Frost Void's second Ice Orb being replaced with a Shatter or Ice Wall to fix this.



< Message edited by The Finnish Phoenix -- 11/1/2014 4:49:34 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 456
11/1/2014 7:39:42   
Gorillo Titan
Member

Did you mean to say triadan? I was thinking of him when I read the post above mine cause I know he's one f the players who knows how to use the ice cards pretty well.


Natures gift value was changed to 4.

< Message edited by Gorillo Titan -- 11/1/2014 17:50:20 >
Post #: 457
11/1/2014 20:46:13   
The Finnish Phoenix
Member

Yeah, luckydude4 on here is Triadan in-game. :)
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 458
11/2/2014 6:26:03   
Gorillo Titan
Member

Do not touch orb and by that I mean do not give it a stun Ice is already hacked by the fact it has freeze. This is what should happen to ice cards change orb so you can choose how much shield it turns into your attack since its pretty easy to make orb OP if they lower the value. Change Frostbite so it has a combo when used on a frozen enemy to destroy a card in there hand each turn both frozen and frostbite are active. Frostbite on its own would just make a card inactive each turn.

The card burn when used causes the enemy to do less damage when stats are added.

Deathflow needs some kind of boost also either a small heal or a chance to stun.

Powerflow when used raises your attack when used.

Also add in the status blindness which makes the enemy have a chance to miss an attack.

Also add Dizziness when you hit an enemy hard with a card like power strike causing them to do less damage or it limits the amount of cards they can do that turn or prevents combos above so many hits.

< Message edited by Gorillo Titan -- 11/2/2014 6:48:36 >
Post #: 459
11/2/2014 9:00:40   
elite dark slayer
Member

^sounds pretty cool, by which I mean it sounds like something that would take forever to get in game.
DF MQ AQW  Post #: 460
11/2/2014 9:08:31   
Gorillo Titan
Member

This forum is just to suggest ideas to make the game great and seeing how Nulgath has been reading the forum a lot lately its a good idea to suggest useful stuff before he gets to busy again.
Post #: 461
11/2/2014 9:10:23   
megakyle777
Member

Wait, IS Nulgath reading the forum now? If so, someone needs to direct him to the Character Suggestion Thread. Plenty of good char ideas.
DF  Post #: 462
11/2/2014 9:15:08   
Gorillo Titan
Member

I think more to it then him just seeing a character and adding it think he needs to confirm it with the person who made it first.
Post #: 463
11/3/2014 2:11:14   
Luckydude4
Member
 

 Gorillo Titan, speaking as the best Ice element character in the game, Ice is nowhere near a sufficient element. I only keep up because I'm moderately intelligent and have spent the equivalent of 6000 Artix Points in game to keep my decks updated. Freeze is nowhere enough to compete with the new onslaught of double petrifying characters, energy generators, and DoT spewers. Ice doesn't get to sacrifice cards to increase damage, or health to strike, or generate energy by tossing loose cards, or translate it's health to shields. We are literally the only element in the entire game not to have a way to add bonuses, generate energy, or heal. And what do we get in turn? The energy we draw once a round, DoT's that require us to stay alive to take effect and can't apply anything concrete immediately, good defense, one control card, and whole bunch of loose junk that comes in handy once in a blue moon. Simple builds like Poison, Supercharge, Powerflow, and Striker builds are enough to take down 5 card, 5 star Ice builds at this point because Ice hasn't received any advantages to duel with the game's steadily increasing power creep. One, single card that has a 1/15 or 1/20 chance of appearing and isn't even available as CC or as standard draws does not make an entire element. This is the Ice Element we're talking about, not the Freeze element. Now Ice characters simply can't afford to employ control cards any more because our foes will either heal our attacks in one or two turns or slam us with 5 hit combo/1500 card.

In response to the Finish Phoenix's points, Fire still has a way to make up for that deficiency with Incinerate. Every single point that Ice characters use can be the difference between having just enough for a Victory, or one too little in Defeat. Ice Orb not only needs you to have 2000 shield (may I remind you that Ice walls are 4 star cards and come as pairs in stock forms?), but also 10 energy and a period of no damage for full effect. Also, there is no other card or element in the game is necessitates 22 energy for a "finisher" and the greater part of a hand for one single use. Every single other card in Oversoul can be applied in as many ways as you can creatively concieve of; except Ice Orb. It's forces Ice either decisively commit or discard and lose precious seconds in a game where all their opponents can heal and they can't, or can generate energy and they can't, can discard cards for bonus damage while she can't, or have DoT's that hit right away while they don't, or have twice as many control cards as they do, or can apply their defense into instant offense while they can't, or can deal massive amounts of damage directly ignoring their defense while they can't. We don't have time and we don't have control in situation where those are our only advantages and our opponents are grow more likely to win every second the fight draws on. Every other element has some great power card they can use to heavily damage their foes in a short amount of time without spending an unreasonable amount of cards or energy, that doesn't require a contrived series of events. Ice simply doesn't, and I demand a remedy for this glaring lack of balance, sense, and fairness.

Also, apologies for the Ice/Frost mix-up. I've been spending a lot of time writing about hypothetical schisms concerning conniving spiders, loutish Frost Elves, Elemental Goddesses, and Nordics. Honestly the words are starting to blur together at this point.

< Message edited by Luckydude4 -- 11/3/2014 2:18:07 >
Post #: 464
11/3/2014 6:51:13   
Gorillo Titan
Member

Real Deal is the best Ice player in game. Ice needed to be unqiue and it got two of the most OP cards in game and 3 of the worse cards in game to balance it out don't see me complaining about tree of life and natures gift which are pretty bad cards. Might as well just removed one of those ice cards since it was just made to have enough cards to make CC packs.


Since earthquakes come in random amount of str how about changing the card so each of the 6 hits has a random chance of doing between 100 and 300 damage?

< Message edited by Gorillo Titan -- 11/3/2014 10:11:27 >
Post #: 465
11/3/2014 22:13:53   
The Finnish Phoenix
Member

When he was here, Beck was the best Ice player and I think it's fair to say he was the most capable Ice player the game's ever seen. He won the Ice tournament on top of other amazing feats like levelling Ice Beetle to 20 solely through PvP wins, but now that he's gone and new players have emerged I feel we'd need another Ice tournament to really judge. Ice also offers fair chances to players without many CC resources as it's been proven that minimal or no CC to facilitate drawing Freeze can be done quite effectively. Beck only used one 515 Defend CC on his Cosoma to win the Ice tournament even though he had access to Shatters and Ice Walls galore. A lot of strong players didn't get a chance to participate in that tournament though, and many who did participate including The Jop, clinton, DeathGuard, necro rouge, Hendrik, Asuka, and BJEBLE have gotten better since then. Other great players who participated included Leader, Mondez, Saturn, Valkyrie XVIII, and Skurge, although none of them have participated in the last three tournaments as far as I'm aware. I don't know who the best player now would be, but between players like The Jop, clinton, Axel, Real Deal, DeathGuard, Gorillo Titan, Signeous, Triadan, Elite Tuga, necro rouge, Hendrik, and myself it's not obvious who is the best with Ice. Then there are mysterious players like MapCurse and Kiazz with copious resources (pretty sure Kiazz has more Level 20's than the 60 I do and IDK about MapCurse but it's clear he can level as he has practically every evolved Legend instantly and is always at the gold cap in his videos) that rarely show their hands and could potentially decide to show up one day and give everyone a nasty surprise…

quote:


Freeze is nowhere enough to compete with the new onslaught of double petrifying characters, energy generators, and DoT spewers.


This is true for now (no thanks to your takedown of Xmas Elf), but as I keep reminding people, December is a month away and has never failed to bring Ice characters with it, some of which will hopefully break new ground. I would be surprised if we didn't see the introduction of an Ice/Neutral character at this time given the recent release of an Earth/Neutral. Ice and Energy are the only remaining elements (for the sharpshooters out there, I'm not counting Chaos) yet to include a character with Neutralize; it's just a matter of time until they do.

quote:


Fire still has a way to make up for that deficiency with Incinerate.


Incinerate is actually slightly less energy-efficient than Empower after including the cost of any buffed attack cards potentially native to Fire/Ice characters except Ice Needle (for which the slight different isn't worth charging a second element anyway), Empower being a compatible CC for characters of any element.

100-Attack: 100 for 1 energy. (10000% efficiency)
Empower: 400/409 for 1 energy. (40000/40900% efficiency)
Incinerate: 700/730 for 3 energy. (23333/24333% efficiency)

100-Pierce: 100 for 2 energy. (5000% efficiency)
Empower: 400/409 for 2 energy. (20000/20450% efficiency)
Incinerate: 700/730 for 2 energy. (11666/12166% efficiency)

200-Attack: 200 for 2 energy. (10000% efficiency)
Empower: 500/509 for 2 energy. (25000/25400% efficiency)
Incinerate: 700/730 for 4 energy. (17500/182500% efficiency)

Bash: 300 for 2 energy. (15000% efficiency)
Empower: 600/609 for 2 energy. (30000%/30450% efficiency)
Incinerate: 900/930 for 4 energy. (22500%/23250% efficiency)

500-Attack: 500 for 4 energy. (12500% efficiency)
Empower: 800/809 for 4 energy. (20000%/20225% efficiency)
Incinerate: 1100/1130 for 6 energy. (18333%/18833% efficiency)

Thrash: 600 for 4 energy. (15000% efficiency)
Empower: 900/909 for 4 energy. (22500%/22725% efficiency)
Incinerate: 1200/1230 for 6 energy. (20000%/20500% efficiency)

Ice Needle: 500 for 6 energy. (8333% efficiency)
Empower: 800 for 6 energy. (13333%/13483% efficiency)
Incinerate: 1100/11300 for 8 energy. (13750%/14125% efficiency but can't be done without losing energy in charging a second element to the point where the advantage is lost several times over)

As you can see, Empower is consistently more efficient with the gap closing at higher energy costs and Incinerate having extremely slight leads for some cards costing 6 energy or more, but the only other boostable attack cards at that point are Water Crash, Stone Strike (both Ice Needle clones) and Power Strike. Void Rebirth could CC a Power Strike and use Incinerate on it without losing charges. This could be entertaining but he'd do better to use the Neutral charges for his native Iron Hides or possibly a Corruption imo. I'll list the numbers for non-Ice/Fire boost-compatible cards just for fun (read: no Blood Rage and Sacrifice sadly).

Holy Strike: 700 for 5 energy. (14000% efficiency)
Empower: 1000/1009 for 5 energy (20000%/20180% efficiency)
Incinerate: 1300/1330 for 7 energy (18571%/19000% efficiency, possible but for no practical reason)

Tazer: 500 for 5 energy (10000% efficiency)
Empower: 800/809 for 5 energy (16000%/16180% efficiency)
Incinerate: 1100/1130 for 7 energy (15714%/16143% efficiency, ridiculously close on the CC'd efficiency, you could try Incinerated Tazers with Mana Guardian I guess)

Stone Strike: See Ice Needle

Water Crash: See Ice Needle

Power Strike: 800 for 7 energy (11429% efficiency)
Empower: 1100/1130 for 7 energy (15714%/15853% efficiency)
Incinerate: 1400/1430 for 9 energy (15555%/15888% efficiency)

Of course, Incinerate is a native card for many Fire characters and Empower generally isn't for most Ice characters, but having more than 2/3 for your CC's and native deck combined increases the chances dead cards as it takes three cards to use either, so characters with two Incinerates to begin with can't CC more than one Incinerate/Empower effectively while other characters can.

I actually prefer Incinerate because it's effectively Empower and Might in the same card, Might being 15000% efficiency and generally worth using. This goes back to the importance of cards that convert energy at a high scale AND efficiency, as converting all energy at a slightly-higher-than-normal efficiency can be more valuable than converting a small amount of energy at a much-higher-than-normal efficiency and the rest at normal efficiency. A good example of this is that three Mountain Strikes would do 3000 damage for 18 energy where an Incinerated 500 + Meteorite would do 2600 for that same 18 energy even though the Incinerated 500 is more efficient than the Mountain Strikes. Fire characters in particular can suffer from this a lot due to cards like FireBall and Meteorite that sacrifice efficiency to save hand space and make Incinerate plays possible while fully converting energy.

Corruption is so good that it can convert 10 energy into an eventual 2000 damage with just one card where it would take two Incinerated attacks and a total of *six* cards to convert into 1800/1830/1860 damage for the same 10 energy. Of course, Incinerate has no delay so it can't be reacted to in medias res with Iron Hide or interrupted by the end of the battle, but it's still worth taking note of and a good way to demonstrate that cards of similar efficiency aren't necessarily similarly valuable due to overlooked benefits like saving cards.

quote:


Every single point that Ice characters use can be the difference between having just enough for a Victory, or one too little in Defeat.


Depends on the circumstances of the battle. It's obviously not nearly as necessary to worry about efficient conversion against AI Young Paladins or new players with Blood Voids who unwittingly send duel requests as it is against our fiercest PvP rivals. Ice Orb can be used pretty freely when farming but is one of a many cards that generally shouldn't be used in a competitive match alongside cards like Nature's Gift, Tree of Life, Snow Orb, Inferno, Blessed Strike, Water Crash/Ice Needle/Stone Strike, Catlike Reflexes, Frost Bite, Refresh, attack cards without boosts or combos, etc. You just happen to be more focussed on Ice Orb for some reason, which I suspect has to do with your prolific use of a certain blue humanoid character that happens to have two.

quote:


Every other element has some great power card they can use to heavily damage their foes in a short amount of time without spending an unreasonable amount of cards or energy, that doesn't require a contrived series of events. Ice simply doesn't, and I demand a remedy for this glaring lack of balance, sense, and fairness.


Ice was never meant to operate "in a short amount of time" and doesn't suffer competitively for being defensively-oriented. Shatter is among the best offensive cards in the game and Ice characters' general high amounts of native shield cards as well as Freeze supplement its drawback quite effectively.

< Message edited by The Finnish Phoenix -- 11/3/2014 22:40:57 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 466
11/3/2014 22:38:56   
DeathGuard
Member

@The Finnish Phoenix: An empower + a Snow Orb + 2 315 defense cards in Barbarians makes wonders for tanking/offensive purposes. I think it comes down to a really good CC.
IF anything, an Ice Tourney is one of the ones I have been wanting to participate again in, even though I have missed some of the others.

Currently, Frost Lycan IMO has the best offensive damage range from Ice Characters along with Frost Dragon. Pretty much the lack of Freeze on Frost Lycan affects its element main characteristic a bit, making him a bit similar to Shadow characters.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 467
11/3/2014 23:04:29   
The Finnish Phoenix
Member

It depends on how you want to look at offensive potential. I find the cliché that the best offence is a good defence is particularly applicable to Ice characters, as they can do more damage the longer they go about doing it and can get more attacks in the longer they survive. If you're looking at what can kill the fastest though, I'd say Kruger is better than Frost Lycan. It has the same number of boostable+comboable attack cards as Frost Lycan without the cumbersome Ice Needles that interfere with combos due to their high energy costs, in addition to its 3 Shatters and Freeze to accelerate them. It's true that Frost Dragon's attack cards are better, but they total for a bit less damage since he only has six, and he only has 2 Shatters. You can only kill so fast when you have 3500 defence, and Frost Dragon's lack of Freeze is a problem for it in general.

As for Ice CC's, I agree that shield cards can be of use to Ice characters (Ice Walls in particular) that have uncharacteristically low amounts of defence to begin with, such as Frost Queen, Astor and Kruger who each have 1500 total shields as opposed to the usual 3000-4000. Empower and attack cards can be nice for farming, but I wouldn't CC Snow Orb for any purpose because it doesn't contribute to combo bonuses and because it costs more energy to put up 1000 defence and use it than it does to use two 500-attacks. In general, I think it's best not to use all 5 slots for characters whose decks rely on cards that can't be CC'd like charge cards and Freeze. I learned this the hard way when I used 5 CC's in the Energy tournament and couldn't access Energize as easily as players who used 2/5 slots. Sometimes it can be hard to tell how important cards like Freeze and Energize are, though.


< Message edited by The Finnish Phoenix -- 11/3/2014 23:13:55 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 468
11/3/2014 23:19:42   
DeathGuard
Member

@The Finnish Phoenix: Well, if anything, you can't base your strategy around a stun, that's why I prefer solid defense/damage output. No matter how you see it, the stun turns can actually mean demise to the caster. Staling wouldn't get you nowhere if you couldn't even pierce/destroy the defenses.
If anything, still waiting for an Ice character with Neutralize.

If we could have a deck, I would design it this way:
2x 200 attack
3x 500 attack
1x Freeze
2x Shatters
2x 500 Defend
2x Ice Wall
1 Neutralize
2 Iron Hides
1x Ice Needle

16 cards in totals. Balanced in terms of areas but biased to defensive power. If anything, it you wanted to make the Deck offensive, replace the 2 Iron Hides with a Corruption and you're good to go.

Some variation would be also replacing one Ice Needle for Snow Orb for more normal damage. If anything, I had prefe to see a Snow Orb than an Ice Needle in the deck for stacking of shields.


< Message edited by DeathGuard -- 11/3/2014 23:21:22 >
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 469
11/3/2014 23:31:14   
The Finnish Phoenix
Member

Freeze isn't just a way to stall though, it also lets you cycle through your cards faster, so you use some of your hand and get to your next one while your opponent doesn't get to draw. So they're behind in development even if they aren't overloaded by being Frozen near the cap or before they would've drawn (which I try to aim for when I Freeze so I don't give back more energy than I have to).

I like your deck idea and think Corruption would make sense to convert Neutralize as it would work well with defence and Freeze to ensure it runs its course. Not a huge fan of Ice Needle though and would prefer a third Shatter, but maybe that would be jumping the gun in terms of balance.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 470
11/3/2014 23:36:59   
Gorillo Titan
Member

Shatter breaks the ice pierce card most of the time making counter ineffective.


If the natures gift thing is a glitch it needs to stay 4 energy instead of 5 makes that card a much more value card.
Post #: 471
11/3/2014 23:44:18   
The Finnish Phoenix
Member

Right, I'm pretty sure it's displayed 5 but actually cost 4 since its release. Either way, it's generally a waste of energy.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 472
11/3/2014 23:44:26   
DeathGuard
Member

@TFP: I know Freeze doesn't just stalls, it was just one of many cases. If you're on disadvantage, sometimes it really doesn't helps you in some cases, just works as a temporary stalemate. Pretty much the lack of a healing card is what makes Freeze just a temporary life saver. If anything, Ice chars with healing cards would just be awfully good.

About the deck, I do think the Neutralize + Corruption is better than two Iron Hides and that Ice Needle would rather become a downside so either a 3rd shatter or Snow Orb. I had vote for Snow Orb, that way I would just equip an additional Ice Wall to be able to stack defenses and use Snow Orb in some cases.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 473
11/3/2014 23:50:54   
The Finnish Phoenix
Member

Awfully good indeed, pre-nerf Xmas Elf was easily the best character in the game when it came out which is why it was nerfed.

You could just have a third Ice Wall to begin with (Cosoma Titan's done it) and those who want a Snow Orb could CC that instead. :P
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 474
11/3/2014 23:54:20   
Gorillo Titan
Member

Corruption as your CC choice is only good if you have the defensive to keep your character alive.
Post #: 475
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