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RE: =DF= Necromancer Armor Discussion Thread

 
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4/24/2018 1:34:38   
Greyor_42
Member

^I mean as the move you use when the Seed effect activates. Familiar is a much better overall move to use on that turn, as raise has more than a 50% chance of being weaker than familiar(3 out of the 6 possible outcomes for raise is "one hit of 130% damage"; Familiar, on the other hand is 1 hit of 160% damage 100% of the time, which means that Seed gets a better damage calcuation with Familiar than it does with Raise, and the amount of damage it does is consistent, which leads to it just deaing better overall damage with Familiar than Raise over the entire course of using necromancer).

Familiar with seed has 2 possible outcomes: 3 hits of 160% damage, or 4 hits of 160% damage. Raise on the other hand can end up with 3 hits of 130%, 3 hits of 130%, 3 hits of 130%, 4 hits of 130%, 4 hits of 130%, 4 hits of 130%, 4 hits of 130%, 4 hits of 130%, 5 hits of 130%, 5 hits of 130%, 5 hits of 130%, or 6 hits of 130%, chosen pseudo-randomly.

That's 8 out of 12 possible results where Raise does less damage to either one or both of Familiar's results. There's a reason that the "Ultimate DF Strategy Guide" uses Familiar as the 3rd skill after Seed instead of Raise. Raise is much better used after Seed procs on Familiar, while you're still under the effect of Boon.

< Message edited by Greyor_42 -- 4/24/2018 1:35:07 >
DF  Post #: 126
4/24/2018 8:31:59   
BluuHorseOfficial
Member


I literally only use Seed with Familiar, because Seed into Champion isn’t too good either. Familiar is the most damaging non-crit skill in Necro (I beleive) and is just a teeny bit weaker than Paladin’s Crusading Strike and DK’s Minion (sleleton portal), but its weakness is overlookable by the fact that a defensive class shouldn’t even be able to do as much damage as Familiar does, but it does anyway, due to which, this HAS to be one of my favourite classes, all time.
DF  Post #: 127
4/24/2018 16:45:23   
Sakurai the Cursed
Member

It doesn't even generally matter if you get more hits on Raise or not; unless your only goal is to do the most damage possible on that one turn and no other turns matter (which is basically only a consideration for a couple challenge fights at the Inn at the Edge of Time), regardless of how many hits you get on Raise, using Seed+Familiar then using Raise on another turn will always be better than using Seed+Raise and then Familiar on another turn. You can ignore the base effects of the skills themselves, because those will happen either way whenever you use them; essentially, you're either making Seed 130% x2 or 3, or 160% x2 or 3. It's pretty clear which gives you more damage overall.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 128
5/7/2018 6:01:08   
steambin96
Member

Honestly if the artifact increased the duration or reduce the cooldown of any of the three defensive skills namely fear ward, shroud or intent, necromancer would become very powerful with nearly airtight defence. Right now the defensive skill roatation feels lacking.
Post #: 129
5/7/2018 11:24:08   
Luckyjazzt
Member

Thats how it used to be, and it was way overpowered, and definitely abusable. Verly nerfed it because if you properly utilized the defensive skills, you could be safe from damage 100% of the time, with several hits for dots and crits in between your defensive rotation. Shroud's cooldown was only 9 or 10 (don't exactly remember), so you could go Ward -> Intent -> Shroud, all 3 skills making you impervious to damage, and by the time Shroud was finished, Ward and intent were available. Beyond that, there was also a heal and mana regen. Personally, I though that increasing the cooldown to 30 was a bit much, but overall, it was pretty easy to see why it needed to be nerfed.
DF  Post #: 130
5/7/2018 20:30:02   
steambin96
Member

Shroud had 11 turn cooldown and i agree that it had to be nerfed. But i would really like to see necromancer's artifact increase the class defensive potential cause right now there's too much holes in necro's defence i think. Health regen isn't strong enough to deal with most bosses now.
Post #: 131
5/7/2018 20:50:39   
Greyor_42
Member

^

Really? Because from my use of it, it's still borderline invincible. Shroud and Life Tap have more than enough health Regen to keep you topped off, and Necromancer's ability to avoid taking damage is still very good, with the aforementioned Life Tap and Shroud being more than enough to fill in those "holes" you mentioned.

If I can beat Bearginion without ever dropping below half health using Necromancer(which I did, it's how I won in the first place)without using any Nature Resist equipment(aside from the 20 or so All Resist I have from equipment), then its defenses are good enough as is.

< Message edited by Greyor_42 -- 5/7/2018 20:52:45 >
DF  Post #: 132
5/7/2018 22:26:44   
steambin96
Member

Do share how you did it, i'm not too proficient with the class. I mainly used it when it was op
Post #: 133
5/7/2018 22:34:24   
BluuHorseOfficial
Member


It’s far more OP now :o
DF  Post #: 134
5/7/2018 22:58:31   
steambin96
Member

Is it more op? The bear just took half my health with ward up. We weren't the only ones who got buffed by the stat changes....
Post #: 135
5/7/2018 23:19:07   
Luckyjazzt
Member

For sure, its still a very powerful class, but before the nerf, it was just nuts. I beat the dragon challenges (individually, this was before triple trouble) on hard mode (60,000 + hp) without ever taking damage, except occasionally Gelinguis would get lucky.
DF  Post #: 136
5/7/2018 23:55:56   
Baron Dante
Member

^How did you do Oratath though? I don't think Necro would have the offenses to deal 30k damage before he heals every... 20ish turns? Not even with the old DragonKnight weapons, not that they'd be that useful for Necro, since it doesn't have insane hit-counts on attacks.

That being said, in single battles, Necro has always shined. Triple Trouble would've been a hard one for it just because of the different elements, making Ward way less effective.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 137
5/8/2018 0:03:16   
Luckyjazzt
Member

Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly and didn't do all of them, but I at least did Gelinguis and Trigoras with it. But yes, it does still do very well with single fights, though not as well as before the nerf.
DF  Post #: 138
5/8/2018 5:35:56   
Aryc
Member

Wooh! Been a while since I've participated in a discussion, and this feels like a good one to hop into.

Talking about ways to do it, without offering suggestions, I think Verly's already got a good idea of what to do for a defensive class' artifact, and the thing is that he's done it before. Dragonlord's Rage converted the tanky wall that was Dragonlord into a more than solid DpT class, with a health-consuming nuke and a warrior-like shield as opposed to the massively-defensive shield it had previously, in exchange for some lessened defenses.

For example: Add a few turns of cooldown to the shield, but, in exchange, give the stun a DoT, kinda like Rogue's, but not terrible. Give the Corruption a Zardbie/IBR Long Winter boost over multiple uses, but make the heal a 10% all at once instead of a 14% over 3 turns. Fix the RNG on Raise Minion like Greyor suggested, but make the mana regen a little less useful, or don't even put a trade-off on it, since what he proposed sounded like it balanced itself. Remove the stunning component from Inspire Terror, but increase the damage the target deals to both you and itself.

There are many ways I can see this working, and that's just one of them. Verly works magic with code, after all.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 139
6/3/2018 9:37:28   
steambin96
Member

I just thought of something, could we get the shroud skill to have a negative b/p/d and m/p/m? And hopefully get one extra turn on the shroud skill? But mainly the negative b/p/d and m/p/m because its really annoying when the enemy misses when you use shroud.
Post #: 140
1/21/2019 22:52:31   
Sinister Spirit
Member
 

Is it normal that the skill Shroud tends to make me take 1-5 damage instead of regenerating me? (and I checked my resistances, I DO have 140 when it happens, it's not another effect that lowers it)
Post #: 141
1/22/2019 0:14:19   
TFS
Helpful!


Check your All resistance.
DF  Post #: 142
1/22/2019 15:32:44   
Sinister Spirit
Member
 

I have about 23 All resistance and none to the element used to attack me, so even if it lowered Shroud's 140 resistance I should still get 17% of the damage as heal. But anyway shouldn't my All resistance stack WITH the resistance given by Shroud just like it does with any other resistance?
Post #: 143
1/23/2019 8:17:55   
Sakurai the Cursed
Member

It should, yes; TFS was suggesting you might have negative All resistance, from a debuff or Hidebehind or Verraad/Uragiri. As it turns out though, resistances are either bugged or were ninja-patched to be hard-capped at 99 or so, which certainly does break Necromancer.

< Message edited by Sakurai the Cursed -- 1/23/2019 8:39:09 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 144
1/23/2019 15:49:17   
Sinister Spirit
Member
 

I don't think resistances are capped because I tried it again without any item equipped (thus nearly no-resistance at all) and Shroud worked perfectly, so it must be a stacking bug.
Post #: 145
1/23/2019 19:15:40   
Shiny_Underpants
Member
 

All res is the only one presently with any strange behavior. It may well be an issue with that.
Post #: 146
1/23/2019 21:46:10   
TFS
Helpful!


Only non-elemental resists (All, Immobility, etc) are currently bugged(?); that shouldn't affect Necromancer.
DF  Post #: 147
1/24/2019 6:10:15   
Shiny_Underpants
Member
 

The bug is with stacking all resistance.
I've just tested, if you have even 1 all res, you can't heal from resistance stacking anymore. Instead you take a minimum of 1% damage; I tested on Vaal's snap skill, in which the typical damage is 159564; using shroud with any amount of all gear equipped, including just the legion bracer, he deals 1596 damage.
This may be intentional, eg. to stop cheese strategies involving having excess of 100 resistance. If this is the case, the effects are that a player cannot stack any resistance past 99, including immobility resistance, which is a real problem, since being stunned 1% of the time when prepared for it will just ruin legitimate strategies.

In fact, the only battle where only being able to stack to 99 and not 100 is even significant are the Vaal battles.

Without any all resistance, shroud works normally.
Post #: 148
1/25/2019 4:31:47   
BluuHorseOfficial
Member


quote:

In fact, the only battle where only being able to stack to 99 and not 100 is even significant are the Vaal battles.
If the whole incident was indeed intentional, I feel like cases such as this are the sort that require a fix specifically made for them rather than a change to the feature as a whole.

So basically from Shiny’s observation, Pure Resistances does not have a set cap and the cap is determined by the quality of their respective Best in Slot items, while Resistances + All does have a cap of 99; which pretty much seems like a bug rather than a feature to me.

With the recent on-hit thing and the current resistance thing I get the feeling that Verlyrus has special plans for Doompoch
DF  Post #: 149
1/30/2019 7:13:27   
Giratina87
Member

I know I'm very late for the topic, and that as a non-DA I don't think I really have a say in this, but just let me get this off my chest...

One of the attack animations, where the character does a ranged attack instead of the usual "scratch". Change that into an actual ranged attack, where the character doesn't need to move from her/his spot. That's all I ask.

No doubt despite being a non-DA I have fun with the Necro. I make sure to bring it all the time, through the Necro Paragon Armor item in my inventory (Yes I know it's a different armor, but they have exactly same skill mechanics, so... I think it counts).

DF MQ AQW  Post #: 150
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