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=ED= August 20th, 2013 - Patch Notes - 1.5.27

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8/20/2013 22:47:12   
Mecha Mario
Mechanized Plumber
quote:



August 20, 2013
Patch Notes - 1.5.27
NEW CHANGES/FEATURES:
  • New Titan Cores available at Titan in Frysteland

  • Bacon Breath - Unleashes the powerful scent of bacon on your target, dealing 114% weapon damage.
  • Titan Chomp - Summon Titan to chomp your target for 114% weapon damage.
  • Bacon Rain - Rains down delicious bacon, dealing 114% weapon damage to the target.

  • Added several new War Objectives to the world map
    • Barrens Shield Generator
    • Wasteland Missile Turret
    • Naval Yard Propaganda Tower has converted into a Shield Generator
    • Central Station Cannon
    • Central Station Shield Generator
    • Overlord Shield Generator
    • Bio Cannon
  • Adjusted matchmaking to never allow 2v2 matches with a huge level disparity

BUGS FIXED:
  • Fixed an issue with the Slayer’s main body asset. The file included a legacy import call that caused it to fail to load. This could hang the battle against the Slayer NPC in some instances.
  • Fixed an issue where objective shops would automatically close when the objective updates every 15 seconds
  • Fixed character page core Display issue
  • Fixed graphical issue with Juggernaut button displaying during shutdown
  • Updated graphical text with a few missions tokens/credits
  • Updated several outdated “Did you know” and chat messages
Tags: RabbleFroth


< Message edited by Mecha Mario -- 8/20/2013 23:18:16 >
DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 1
8/21/2013 1:06:28   
Dual Thrusters
Member

2v2 has been saved!
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 2
8/21/2013 14:39:34   
Archlord Raistlin
Member
 

 2v2 did seems improved the last couple of days, but I noticed several 35+29 versus 35+35 matches again today.

Titan must be on vacation...
Post #: 3
8/21/2013 14:43:58   
Ranloth
Banned


 6 levels difference is acceptable, it's always been that way but never occured since there was no Exile vs. Legion filter back then. It's 5 levels difference for 1v1. Just consider it bad luck that you've happened to see 6 levels difference (the lowest it can get).
AQ Epic  Post #: 4
8/21/2013 15:05:31   
Archlord Raistlin
Member
 

 So then "Adjusted matchmaking to never allow 2v2 matches with a huge level disparity" is maxed at 6?
I think the point of our matchmaking complaints was the all 35 and random 29 or 30 thrown in happening
many times in a row. If the engine is going to pull in a 29, then pull in a 29 or 30 on the other side as well.

For 2 or 3 days it seemed improved in this regard, but today I've had 5 or 6 matches like this, maybe 2
that were in our favor, etc... These streaky runs of manufactured/forced wins and losses is a problem.

Shrugging it off as bad luck is no solution.

It's bad for the 29, it's bad for the 35 partner and the game suffers, unless you think hopeless battles 10
or 20 times per day is acceptable...
Post #: 5
8/21/2013 15:10:27   
Ranloth
Banned


 It was always maxed at 6 levels difference. As I've said, it's never really happened because there was no Legion vs. Exile filter so it didn't have to look specifically for a certain group of players. And no, the complain was with differences as big as.. 9-10 levels, which did happen! It really is bad luck and low population on the server, which is probably why you've had such a match-up.

Sure, they can make the range even smaller but that'll slow down the waiting times even more. IF there was a poll to decide whether players want closer matches or faster search times, then we could decide which one should take priority. The Devs nor our group of players who use Forum cannot decide that for everyone.
AQ Epic  Post #: 6
8/21/2013 15:33:50   
Archlord Raistlin
Member
 

 Why not have the engine search the last 2 players together, rather than getting stuck at 3 level 35 players
and then forced to pull in a 29 because time is running out? I'm not a programmer, but I can envision a
2v2 holding area for the last 2 players to equalize the battle. If a player is in the holding area, it just looks
like the engine is still searching, etc... The engine can find an appropriate matchup or spit one player back
into the general battle pool and pull in 2 players with similar levels. I don't know how many additional
milliseconds this might take or the code required to do this, but after listening to the 29's who get pulled
into my all 35 battles, I think it's worth the effort to improve this...they don't like it at all.

Post #: 7
8/21/2013 15:50:05   
Sensei Chan
Member

Trans Before The Update 2V2 Had A Max 11 Level Difference It's on My Thread Called "2V2 And Juggernaut Unfair" Open Both Screenshots
Epic  Post #: 8
8/21/2013 15:50:24   
Mother1
Member

@ Archlord

I have to ask what if there isn't one to go around? The engine as it is only is doing this as a last resort as it has already been programmed to search players of equal level as well as same side. Also having a lower level partner isn't a death sentence. Disadvantage yes, but not death sentence. If you can your partner's builds work well together you can pull beat 2 higher level opponents.

Besides the main reason they did it the way they did it is because of the wait times people didn't want. What is the point of making this adjustments if in response cause huge wait times that makes the people wanting matches rage quit?
Epic  Post #: 9
8/21/2013 16:19:22   
Archlord Raistlin
Member
 

 OK, here's an example... players 1 and 2 are level 35, found, in the battle, etc...
Player 3 is level 35, but the engine doesn't place them in the battle immediately. Rather
Player 3 is put into a holding area. The engine continues to search for another 35 to
fill the match. If another 35 is found, then the battle starts. If another 35 is not available,
but two level 32's are, then the engine could decide to put Player 3 back into the general
pool of players for another battle and pull in the two level 32's and start the match.

Adding another 10-15 seconds to do this would not bother me, or probably you, if it makes
the 2v2 battles more evenly matched. If it would take minutes to do this, it's probably not
worth the test. If it's as simple as going from 1-2-4 players in the search mode, with a little
programming, then maybe it is.


Post #: 10
8/21/2013 16:25:50   
Ranloth
Banned
quote:

Adding another 10-15 seconds to do this would not bother me, or probably you, if it makes the 2v2 battles more evenly matched.

Or minutes. <_< Do you really think there's more L30+ in order to make it only 10-15s longer? Majority of players are below level 30, not above it. It may be merely a level or two on paper but in reality, it's much more.
AQ Epic  Post #: 11
8/21/2013 18:35:34   
Buffy A. Summers
Member

Trans Writes:

quote:

6 levels difference is acceptable,...


No, It's Not.

quote:

it's always been that way...


No It Hasn't. 5 Levels Was Supposed To Be The Max Level Difference In Both 1vs1 And 2vs2 And NPCs (For Wins).

Anything Else, Is Simply Proof Of A Broken Battle System And A Very Unfair Match Up.

Honestly, Even 5 Levels Is A Bit Unfair With The Additional Stats And Skills That Those Levels Provide.

But Making Excuses And Rewriting (Epicduel) History As You See Fit Is More Fun Then Stating Actual Truth And Fact.

~ Buffy



< Message edited by Buffy A. Summers -- 8/21/2013 18:36:14 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 12
8/21/2013 18:51:28   
Ranloth
Banned


 By acceptable, I meant that it's intended because the difference in 2v2 is up to 6 levels, unlike 1v1 with 5 levels. NPCs were always 5 levels too, hence why you're probably getting confused. Again, we haven't seen 29 + 35 vs. 35 + 35, because there was no filter before thus it almost never happened.
AQ Epic  Post #: 13
8/21/2013 19:03:03   
Mecha Mario
Mechanized Plumber


 6 level difference in 2v2 is normal and been liked that for a long time before the filter came in. If I remember correctly, with this update, its actually supposed to be even harder to find a 6 level difference match in 2v2. However, may need to be looked into again if you guys are seeing the 6 level gap frequently since the last update. Rabble will continue to monitor the new matchmaking system, and will make adjustments as needed.
DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 14
8/21/2013 19:14:11   
Mother1
Member

@ buffy

Even before the filter came it was like this for a while. However, since we have this filter cutting levels in half due to which side they are on there isn't enough players to go around. Without the player base being even on all levels matches will almost always have an unfair vector in them level wise.

We both know level's 30-35 have the smallest amount of people within them, and may times I have heard lower levels complain about the unfair pairings. Why is this? Because their aren't enough cap level players to go around and the engine pulls them in. Has been this was even when I was coming up through the levels, and I bet it was like this when you were coming up as well.

The only way the level system would be 100% balanced is if we only fought players on our level, but if you seen the server's there is barely 700-900 people on unlike in the old days. Plus when you add all the old filters there is even less people for you to go against. as it stands now we have had the following filters before they added the newest one.

1 Players not within your level range
2 Players within your level range not battling
3 players within your level range doing 1 vs 1
4 players within your level range doing juggernaut
5 players within your level range already in 2 vs 2 battles.

The first one alone weeds out a massive chuck of players since the majority of players are 1-28 in 2 vs 2. Then you add the other filters and you have even less. However, even with all these filters we still didn't suffer as much as we did now due to most match ups being 1-3 levels in gap at most. However the final filter they added literally cut our player pool in half at all levels

6 Players who are on the same side as you get weeded out unless there is no available legion players within you level range.

Hopefully this last filter isn't permanent, but due to the lack of players, them adding filters that cut our playing pool in half, and trying to keep wait times down, this is the end result. If we had a player base that could support cutting the level gap without it causing huge wait times I would be all for it myself, however that isn't the cause. A filter like this would have been much better when we had a player base like in the previous phases not now when we have barely enough people to fill a server playing.
Epic  Post #: 15
8/21/2013 20:12:12   
Predator9657
Member

Thanks Rabble, 2v2 is (almost) back to normal now.
Epic  Post #: 16
8/21/2013 20:15:17   
Buffy A. Summers
Member

quote:

6 level difference in 2v2 is normal and been liked that for a long time before the filter came in. If I remember correctly, with this update, its actually supposed to be even harder to find a 6 level difference match in 2v2. However, may need to be looked into again if you guys are seeing the 6 level gap frequently since the last update. Rabble will continue to monitor the new matchmaking system, and will make adjustments as needed.


2vs2 Has Been Unbalanced And Mismatched Since Beta.

This Is Why There Are 2-3 Years Of Threads With Players Voicing Their Complaints And Suggestions on How To Correct It.

Many Long Time Players (Example = All Time 2vs2 Wins Leaderboards Player, Archlord Raistlin In This Thread) Continue To Point Out Very Valid Points On The Problems Encountered In Frequent 2vs2 Play.

The Funny Thing Is, By Claiming It's Always Been Like This, While Admitting At The Same Time, It's A "Problem"... You Are Also Stating That Nothing Has Changed For The Better In Years Of The 2vs2 System.

The Bottom Line Is, As Archlord Raistlin Stated, Being Paired With A Partner That Is 5-6 Levels Lower Then The Opponents Is Not Fun, Not Fair And Gives You A Very Small % Chance Of Winning.

And It Happens More Then The Devs Would Like To Admit. And It's A Recurring Issue For Years Now.

Obviously, Suggesting That The Battle Capture System Be More Patient And Balanced When The Server Population Is At A Low, Is Also A Problem.

But There In Lies The Issue. If It's Not Corrected Somehow, I Believe More Players Will Stop Playing If They Continue To Encounter Very One-Sided Battles And Have No Options For PvE.

~ Buffy
AQW Epic  Post #: 17
8/21/2013 20:30:02   
Mother1
Member

@ buffy

As I said before the only way this could be fixed 100% is for every player be it 1 vs 1 and 2 vs 2 to always face players on their level. No higher no lower. In all honestly this should have been done back as I said before when there was enough players to support the change. If it was done then all these complaint thread be it from all time players, or level 30-32 who want to escape battling cap level players wouldn't exist.

Only problem I see with this is that if they did this, level groups with the smallest number of players would have extremely long wait times, or might not get matches at all. The staff also has to look at that as well.

What is the point of having 100% fair system now (meaning all level only face their own levels) when you can't even get a match or have to wait a long time for a match? I have read the forums myself and when this filter came out people complained about long waits for matches meaning while people do want fair fights, there are those wu0 don't want to wait an eternity for them either.

Epic  Post #: 18
8/21/2013 21:06:39   
Buffy A. Summers
Member

quote:

6 level difference in 2v2 is normal and been liked that for a long time before the filter came in. If I remember correctly, with this update, its actually supposed to be even harder to find a 6 level difference match in 2v2. However, may need to be looked into again if you guys are seeing the 6 level gap frequently since the last update. Rabble will continue to monitor the new matchmaking system, and will make adjustments as needed.


I Wish There Was A Hard Cap For Battle Match Ups, That Restrict It Within 3 Levels Only, For A Truly Even, Balanced And Fair Battle Match Up, For Both 2vs2 And 1vs1.

If The Population (Players) Pool Was Higher And More Stable, It Could Be Done. But I Understand That Wait Times For Battles Would Be Too Long.

There Is A Solution, However, That They Should Consider.

In The Infernal War, NPCs Were Used For 2vs2. If Special NPCs Were Made For 2vs2, It Might Solve Many Of The Problems Long Time 2vs2 Players Face...

Including Mismatched (Leveled) Partners, Partners Who Leave, Under-geared Partners, AFK Partners And Long Battle Wait Times.

Now, To Consider This Would Take A lot Of Work, I'm Sure, As The A.I. Of The 2vs2 NPCs Would Have To Be Coded For Special Instances...

Such As Automatically Healing A Partner When They Are Below 60% Of Their Health Or Using The Best Attack When An Opponent Is Under 25% Health For The Kill, Etc.

Having Level 30, 32, 35 NPCs, For Example... To MIX Into The 2vs2 Battle Pool... Especially If Those NPCs, Had Cores And Were Programmed To Fight Effectively Would Solve Many Long Standing 2vs2 Issues.

I Wish It Was An Option That Rabble Would Consider, It Obviously Can Be Done Based On The Infernal War Specs. It Only Needs A Massive Tweaking.

It Does Not Have To Be Used To Replace "Real" Players, But If 3 Level 35s Were Hanging On A Battle, Instead of Waiting Or Adding A Level 29 or 30, A Level 35 NPC Would Be Selected.

Insanity Is Repeating The Same Mistakes Again And Again Expecting Different Results. This Has Been The Case With 2vs2 For A Long Time.

Let's Hope That Rabble Would Consider Some New Options To Solve The Various Issues That Plague 2vs2.

~ Buffy


< Message edited by Buffy A. Summers -- 8/21/2013 21:29:19 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 19
8/21/2013 21:41:31   
Mecha Mario
Mechanized Plumber


 @ Buffy

You mention the gap was always 5 for all modes, and I simply stated its been 6 for 2v2. The recent change was to fix the +7 level gap that was appearing recently due to the filter. Yes, the devs are indeed aware of the unbalance. There will still be tweaks done to the matchmaking system. One of the goals indeed is try to making the gap short as possible for all modes without having a long waiting time. Many suggestions such as NPCs have all been considered. They are not out of the question.

< Message edited by Mecha Mario -- 8/21/2013 21:44:04 >
DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 20
8/21/2013 22:27:25   
Dual Thrusters
Member

Some players prefer to fight other players. And others be really ticked if they got an AI partner.

There would have to be some sort of "War 2v2" option. And then to encourage participation, normal 2v2 wouldn't give any influence?
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 21
8/21/2013 23:05:37   
Buffy A. Summers
Member

quote:

Some players prefer to fight other players. And others be really ticked if they got an AI partner.


I Strongly Disagree.

NPCs Are The Perfect Solution To Save, Revive, Restore Balance To The Current Battle System, Especially In 2vs2.

Case In Point, I Just Got Out Of A Battle... Level 35 And Level 35 vs. Level 34 And Level 30 !!!

Seriously?

That Was Today, 08/21/13.

Come On Now. That's Unacceptable.

Granted, Despite The Obvious Mismatch, They Honestly Did Quite Well, But Lost. However There Are No "Moral" Victories In Epicduel.

They're Chance Of Success Was Very Low To Start, Statistically Speaking.

It's A Huge Problem And It's Still Happening.

Injecting NPCs Into The Mix Is Most Certainly Worth Consideration. Which I'm Very Happy To Hear Is An Option, As Mentioned Earlier.

~ Buffy
AQW Epic  Post #: 22
8/21/2013 23:11:54   
Dual Thrusters
Member

The fact that it is an AI already ruins it :/

At least you can plan strategies/combos with a level 30.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 23
8/21/2013 23:18:27   
Mother1
Member

@ buffy

getting a brainless AI at my level with 2 thinking opponents at the same level? No just no buffy. This happen during the infernal war, and the players of this war didn't like it one bit. Getting an AI as a partner against 2 thinking players is just as bad as getting a low level player if not worse.

If it was one player and one AI on each side that is one thing, but 2 players vs one player and an AI is a death sentence 9/10. The only positive I see with this is the NPC won't Disconnect on you. Otherwise I don't see it as a good idea.

Then there is one other thing I can think off with this. If they use NPC to fill in gaps with players what is to stop players from going to an empty server to purposely get NPC to fight like people did in the infernal war?
Epic  Post #: 24
8/21/2013 23:25:48   
midnight assassin
Member

@Buffy
Or what if we can just control the ai to attack a certain target but will automatically heal a player if hp drops to 60-40%? I was just thinking adding another check box in 2v2 but this time a player can select one from the targets or attack a random players?(Bots actions will not be uncontrollable but again you can control on who to target)
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 25
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