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RE: =ED= Upcoming Balance Changes (Patch 1.5.39)

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11/21/2013 17:26:36   
Mother1
Member

@ Elite tuga

I have said this before and I will say it again.

Even if they did do that matches will never be 50 50 to win or lose.

Just because you have a partner at your level and your opponents are at the same level doesn't mean the odds are even.

There are many other factors you need to take into consideration as well which many players tend to overlook due to levels.

If your opponents have a build advantage over you or your partner, the odds are more in their favor to win since you are at a build disadvantage there.

There is also the factor of who goes first as well that also can change the tide.


Also what about ungeared partners with only their primary? That right there can also screw you over because the other team is fully equipped where your partner is missing gear.

My point being is that matches will never be 50/50 even without the level gap.
Epic  Post #: 226
11/21/2013 17:51:58   
Elite Tuga
Member

@ Mother1

I agree with you about it will never be 50/50, because there are other factors too that are unavoidable but personally I think if the Developers done a 0 gap in level differences it would be 1 step closer to fair play no matter what.

Examples of other unfair factors; Bad partner builds, Partners with few gears, Support builds 1st turn advantage, Partners not following tactics as a team should in-order to win, Lagger's who skip turns, players using alt's to their advantage. (Some factors are inevitable but its life.. Nothings perfect).

My point is we should get this system change soon even if we still don't bring 2v2 battles 50/50, because right now its far from it & that's why I wish the match level-ing system was changed, so it would be 1 less factor to worry about, therefore less frustration.

Font size removed. See PM. ~Mecha

< Message edited by Mecha Mario -- 11/21/2013 18:04:15 >
Epic  Post #: 227
11/22/2013 2:26:30   
Scyze
Member

@Elite Tuga,
quote:

Examples of other unfair factors; Bad partner builds, Partners with few gears, Support builds 1st turn advantage, Partners not following tactics as a team should in-order to win, Lagger's who skip turns, players using alt's to their advantage. (Some factors are inevitable but its life.. Nothings perfect).
You see, these kind of things cannot be fixed. If you don't want players with bad builds as a partner, would you rather play 2v1? You're saying you need to get a good build and good Weapons to play 2v2.

Balancing takes time and to make a battle mode fair, it's harder. You have to think about all of the players that are going to get affected (high and low Levels). Just wait... Like me!
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 228
11/24/2013 9:28:46   
Therril Oreb
Legendary AdventureGuide!


 A lot of posts have been deleted now for being unconstructive in the worst way possible.
For the people that are still unaware what constructive posting is, here it is explained very clearly: http://forums2.battleon.com/f/fb.asp?m=21324685
I see a lot of people complaining and repeating the same thing over and over just to get their right without even trying to make a positive impression and trying to build on the game.
The same goes for the people replying to such posts. You have to reply with the idea of improving and not degenerating on ideas and opinions.

So I'll be making this clear, anyone failing to be constructive will have their post deleted and punishment given accordingly.
Read your post twice or even thrice if you have to but make sure your post is there to improve EpicDuel and not just to get what you want.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 229
11/26/2013 7:23:19   
DanniiBoiixD
Member

I think cyber hunters should get technician back. I really don't like Plasma Armor.
AQW Epic  Post #: 230
11/26/2013 9:05:13   
Mother1
Member

@Danniiboii

I doubt they will do that. Especially since they are trying to give the classes their own moves and reduce the amount of shared ones.
Epic  Post #: 231
11/26/2013 17:38:25   
Melissa4Bella
AmeSylph


 Anymore posts complaining about the time of the release will be deleted and warned. If your post has been deleted it is because of that reason or you replied to a post that wasn't adding to the topic.

The release will happen at READY O'CLOCK. Whining and complaining will not hurry things. Please be patient!
AQ DF  Post #: 232
11/26/2013 18:08:38   
Lord Of K1lling
Banned


 i think Plasma armour is a great counter to energy builds. At least the energy shield is, can see that armour being too much different
Epic  Post #: 233
11/26/2013 18:10:39   
Altador987
Member

yea actually i think the shields are pretty decent
AQW Epic  Post #: 234
11/26/2013 18:20:16   
Ranloth
Banned


 Shields and Armors are essentially the same, apart from one depending on your total Tech (Res) and other improving with Support + Armors being weaker (value wise) but lasting a turn longer, which averages it out. They are roughly on par, although the Armors could use -2 or -3 to its cost.
AQ Epic  Post #: 235
11/26/2013 19:00:10   
DanniiBoiixD
Member

A shield lasting another turn is not worth 10-20 energy. I think the energy cost at max should be at 25.
AQW Epic  Post #: 236
11/26/2013 19:43:37   
Mother1
Member

@ danniiboii

Unlike normal buffs Plasma/Mineral/and hybrid armor have one other benefit that other buffs don't. They are immune to the azreal gear. In other words someone putting up energy shield can have 65% of it removed with the azreal gear, where as if you used plasma armor you have 100% grantee that it won't be weakened in anyway. Also due to the weakening off debuffs the only counter to these buffs was made less effect as well.
Epic  Post #: 237
11/26/2013 21:03:32   
ReinVI
Member

funny how they nerf debuffs yet I'm still getting owned by smoke >>;
Epic  Post #: 238
11/27/2013 2:10:11   
kaierti1
Banned


 tell me please someone. titan 1 hour ago said: that update is tomorrow afternoon. when it will be in my counrty it is 11:09 morning. update will be wednesday or thursday? im GMT +4
Post #: 239
11/27/2013 2:15:41   
ReinVI
Member

if it's 11am for you then it will probably be uh... well it's 2 in the morning here so... 12+4-6 16-18 hours from now...

I'm going to guess 3-5 in the morning? for you
Epic  Post #: 240
11/27/2013 2:20:28   
kaierti1
Banned


 ReinVI,
no i think. because every update for me is from 02:00 to 02:30 night. it is night and titan said update will be afternoon so i hope it will not be again same time because u said 03:00 to 05:00 and 02:30 is update usually. it will be another time but today or tomorrow i dont know

i think they did mistake about this updates. because BALANCE UPDATES would be good on last friday 22 november and promo package update would be good now friday 29 november. because first we need balance changes again and then other items

< Message edited by kaierti1 -- 11/27/2013 2:22:47 >
Post #: 241
11/27/2013 14:30:43   
suboto
Member

Im a tactial merc and im completely confused now i cant even win a single fight before this new change when omega was kinda adjusting balance even then i struggled a little but not like this i posted on battle stratgety forum for help but no one has even replyed... guess its time i give up :/
Epic  Post #: 242
12/3/2013 5:18:20   
Goony
Constructive!


 Just a bit of feedback about the balance update:

It's good to see the passives move to actives and there has been a marginal shift to longer battles.

I'll base my comments in regard to playing as a Mercenary in 1v1.

From what I can see is that the 1v1 battles are dominated by bounty hunters and tech mages. The energy drain/regain skills of these two claases in conjunction with their debuffs and mark of blood makes them the best classes. I wouldn't go so far as to say that tech mages can heal loop, but it is pretty close!

The major downfalls for Mercenaries, in my opinion, is that there are really only 2 builds that work. Support and technology/energy...
This is detrimental as the class has more skills that are based on melee attacks and with the propensity of battles that are decided by energy control means that static charge is weak due to strength modifier and it is blockable. Static grenade is by far a more powerful skill and needs to be adjusted. Then you have tech mages with battery backup and assimilation... huh, this combination is overpowered!

The other issue with Mercs is that there are 3 skills in the tree that are cast on self; hybrid, Blood Commander and Adrenaline rush.

Hybrid, since it is split, is way too weak, you get struck by malf or smoke and use that to defend well it's just a waste of a turn. To be anywhere near effective it needs to be close to max and then to use 10 skill points and 29 energy to cast it on yourself while your opponent infilcts further damage and builds rage. I can't find a use for this skill and I believe that Shadow Arts is a better skill than this.

Blood Commander is a good skill if you can go 1st and yes it improves with support. But, the waste of a turn/rage to cast means that 1 block/deflect effectively counteracts any gain from casting it. The skill is marginal, with the stat progressions and amount of smoke in battles means that it is very situational and to waste 10 skill points to get a decent bloodlust return means that it's not worth using.

Adrenaline, at low levels I can get more rage by just attacking. The skill itself is a total contradiction. Waste energy and a turn of doing damage and gaining rage to get rage... huh??? Totally useless!

A long time issue for me is intimidate, it's been a very long time since this skill was useful. Don't use as the skill requires too many skill points and energy to be of any use and where it should be effective is versus high strength builds, but this is offset by stat progressions.

On the subject of skill progressions and energy cost, I made a note of how I believe they should be adjusted, when I was an active moderator, from depreciating per skill point/energy to increasing return based on skill points invested. The best gain in most instances is to have 1 point invested in a skill, further training reduces the return per energy cost. Just an opinion as I believe skills should get better for investing in them and have a lower base level and energy cost!

For me as a long time mercenary player, the best stage in terms what I believe the class is about was beta. A strong melee fighter that make use of their strength, effectively uses rage build and can be defensive. But, this was before auxiliaries and robots and the game has moved on.

I have played on all my alts and apart from Cyber Hunter and some extent Tactical Mercenaries (but these both have a strong DOT skill) have noticed that the other classes have a far superior synergy in 1v1 battles. In terms of attacking builds, it's always better to attack with a strong move like malfunction or smoke. Or in terms of defensive builds to control the opponents energy pool. At the moment mercenaries are disadvantaged in both these areas.

My main concerns are the relative strengths of buffs and debuffs, the way rage is calculated, the inequity in energy drain/regain skills and having skills that are both usable and are correctly weighted in terms of invested points and energy cost.

Nice to see that balance has had a makeover and it is definitely a long overdue step in the right direction. Thanks :)
Epic  Post #: 243
12/3/2013 6:20:16   
Remorse
Member

^ Nice to so you online again g00ny :)

And I agree with almost all of your feed back.


The only thing I disagree in is the right direction.


Sure battles should be longer that is great, but I honestly don't think all classes should be given energy drains and regains.


Some classes can have small versions of both or strong versions of either one but they shouldn't be all the same.
Especially when cores have given multiple sources of gaining/draining energy.



I think HP and EP should scale to 2 per stat point again as without enhancements the high scaling was not much of an issue, or at very least EP should scal at 2 per stat point so they can revert on giving all classes drains and regains and allow classes to rely on base energy one again.




1v1 is surely dominated by offensive strategies ( I hesitate to call them stratgies because they are more just effortless winning/counterless builds), and the constant buffing with broken cores (aka the new ones an many from the past) is not helping the game to become as enjoyable strategic wise as it was in beta.


As for intimidate being to weak , I agree and to buff it I recommend giving it the flat bonus of reducing 1 focus for the same duration.


Static grenade should in all honestly be removed and EMP returned to BHs (providing they add good EP scaling)

As for assimilation the buff to it way back was really unnecessary, the unblock-able part is fine but it should not drain any more then 10 maxed.



Epic  Post #: 244
12/3/2013 6:54:58   
DarkDevil
Member

as for balance prospective every class has a way to destroy and regain energy.
retaurning emp to bountys mean they must have another reliable source to regain energy.
and since all other skills can't therefore this one is the only left , therefore it must remain unless another skill takes the regain effect.
also it doesn't need a nerf it needs a tweek , lil bit less drain and lil bit more regain to stop the abuse.
remember a bounty will use it everytime he needs energy like a mage using his battery backup except lower regain but it kept the draining side cus this was the main class purpose which is countering.
and since battery is stronger than retour then static grenade is more effective than emp.
chs kept emp because they already have a way to regain energy (it needs some tweaks too).

< Message edited by DarkDevil -- 12/3/2013 6:58:54 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 245
12/3/2013 7:04:04   
Remorse
Member

Since when does all classes need both an energy drain and a regain?


I think all classes should have returned to original state and rather adjusting and wrecking variety by making all the classes similar in that respect they could of just simply increased EP scale rate to 2 per stat point.


Let me get this straight, BALANCE IS NOT EVERYTHING BEING THE SAME.


Balance should be all classes having equal strength and weaknesses in different areas.

EG. BH and mercs should lack a proper regain, TMs and TLMs should lack a proper drain (after changing their current skills so this is the case)

And BM and CH should have a weak version of both combined.


In this case it is more or less balanced as each class has advantages and disadvantages.



Balance is not all classes have regain and drains but certain skill are obviously more effective then others eg. Static grenade versus energy parasite? Where is the balance in that? It would be far better to make things different then make it comparable and obviously unbalanced.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 12/3/2013 7:08:10 >
Epic  Post #: 246
12/3/2013 7:18:36   
DarkDevil
Member

right now everything costs energy even cores and passive skills therefore some classes will have an advantage in cores due to it having more regain or so or having better use of skills.
since back in delta we could say bh had weaker skills but better passives or tm had better skills but worse passives.
this caused unbalance when bms had better both skills and passives.

over with the history lesson , parasite obviously needs tweeking too so don't compare stuff to it.

balance is in both being effective , effective doesn't mean strong or weak but means equally usefull.
AQ Epic  Post #: 247
12/3/2013 7:33:53   
Remorse
Member

^ Rather then changing every classes set of drains and regians I think they should just increase the energy per stat rate.


This means it is worth it to invest in it which means player could have high energy base amounts (around 90) and this would allow them to compensate say they don't have a regain.
Epic  Post #: 248
12/3/2013 7:48:29   
DarkDevil
Member

this will cause gaps to grow.
gaps like between focus builds and caster builds.
gaps also as between lvls since low lvls must remain the same therefore the scaling will be rough meaning a 10 lvls differ can cause 15 energy difference.
also this would need the recalculating the costs of all skills to not cause unbalance in caster ones.
lastly there will be odds as parasite being OP since its effect will go up from 7/10 to 10/16 per turn while others just being 20-30 as whole.

instead of changing whole energy just to weaken drains then why don't you just weaken energy drains.
i wouldn't support that since caster builds wouldn't be countered and will arrise just a new problem.

< Message edited by DarkDevil -- 12/3/2013 7:52:47 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 249
12/3/2013 7:55:01   
Remorse
Member

^ what are you on about?


I only suggest returning the energy progression as in 1 stat invested = 2 energy to be the same as all phases apart from omega..


Energy costs were based off OLD ENERGY PROGRESSION!

People will CHOOSE to have high energy if they wish though the starting amount at all level will be the SAME.

Therefore energy parasite will only become more effective against those who choose to have high energy.
Epic  Post #: 250
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