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RE: =DF= SoulWeaver (All versions) Discussion Thread

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8/2/2014 14:48:59   
Mordred
Member

(M)SW's MP costs aren't ridiculous at all. I only have 125 WIS+44, and that gives me some 2100 MP for quests. No quest is so long I spend that much. SW's main problem is one it's always had; the lack of a heal. Considering how it's a glass cannon, yeah, sure, makes sense. Gotta play fast, and hard, but most importantly, smart.

Banishment was OP, and at the same time, absolutely worthless for what it was built for. With a normal multi-skill now, it takes on multiple foes better than ever before. If you want to one-shot foes, set up Synch and use it first chance you get. Because that carries through battles, y'know. There's no lack of damaging skills in the class' arsenal, so the removal of one skills nuke capabilities doesn't ruin the class. If that's the sole thing you used the class for, well, you weren't really using a class. You were over-reliant on a single skill.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 101
8/2/2014 14:49:06   
mahasamatman
Member

although i'm sure you have more experience in this area than i do, i don't completely agree.
mana grenades is status-based, but it forms quite a solid base to 1-shot most minions in any short or medium quest. for multy-enemy battles, two multy skills (photon bow&black hole) also form a quick win (although photon bow is not completely trustable). nanobots give help with longer fights, and it has enought debuffs/buffs to keep itself alive. still tier 2, though, cuz it cant really compete with the sheer power of the atealan or DC classes.

DL has AMAZING defensive abilities, such as 50% resist to all, health&mana regen, powerful shield... and once in a while unleashes a destructive attack (crit+50% dmg or heart).
the multi is very bad, though, and the class is really bad against minions (taking at least 2 turns and quite some mana to finish them).

SW, in my opinion, might be stronger than techno, but without the old multi (btw, it it better this way) its still a tier 2. not competing DC/atealan, and probablt not stronger than DL.

i hope, by the way, that the paladin revamp will include improving the non-DA skills. right now, they all have about 20% chance to activate, which makes them quite weak, and without a decent multy, stun or crit skills.

EDIT: SYNCH CARRIES THROUGH BATTLES?! i didnt know that! its awesome!

< Message edited by mahasamatman -- 8/2/2014 14:50:33 >
DF  Post #: 102
8/2/2014 14:55:54   
Ash
Member
quote:

imo the new sw is actually a bit too strong. it has many strong defensive skills while also having even more dmg. if math says that its in the right place, then its ok.

It's tier 3 for how it'll be unlocked so it gets a bit of a gimmie on some things which is why it seems higher then it should. It's on the lower end of a Tier 3 offensive class though. You'll see once DK is out and just compared to things like Kathool.

mahasamatman - SW is supposed to still be a tier 2, it's a storyline class. :P MSW is only tier 3 because you'll have to have completly trained SW, AND completled the whole Bk3 Tomix saga to get it once the finale happens. The DA button to just nab it at any point will poof and you'll have to have done both of those to get it.

And yes, the entire skill set for Pally has been redesigned. There is still a small "random" factor to the heal on attack but it's far less random and all that randomness on the other skills is gone as well. It's also got some ele comp now for the light locked skills. Should be fun once you get to use it, the testers liked it. :P



< Message edited by Ash -- 8/2/2014 14:56:42 >
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 103
8/2/2014 14:59:05   
Deviance
Member

I think it's also important to remember that Soulweavers are NOT intially fighters, those are Chaosweavers. Soulweavers use looms to make clothes basically with a spirit, but Tomix stretched the boundaries to fighting, and that is why there is such a cost to it, mana and damage wise, because the class itself wasn't meant for fighting. That's if you want to explain in cannonically? But this certainly does make sense

The all powerful Soulweaver was nice at first, but Im liking this new skill set much more. There are stuns and blinds, like Ash said, and lots of boosts that make this class more strategic than just button mashing like it used to be. Tbh, I HATED Banishment because it was unpredictable and annoying. This new Remorse skill is much better.

And that sounds nice Ash, for Pally ^^ Although I do hope it still packs a punch like Necro. Light weapons and classes in this game tend to... underperform, or at least that's been my experience with them. I'd really like a nice light class to pack a small punch instead of going to the dark themed classes for power, which is what I'll have to do (Dmk, DK, KA) Then again <- those are tier 3-4, but still. Im not saying AS powerful, not quite near that, but you know... decent. Of course, Im confident you've done that already ;)

< Message edited by Deviance -- 8/2/2014 15:03:21 >
DF  Post #: 104
8/2/2014 15:09:04   
Vestrova
Member

this whole tier thing is confusing me. is necro a tier 3? and if its a tier two, then does that mean pally and Deathknight are gonna be on the same level? or is necro a tier 2 and Dk will be a tier 3 cuz you hafta train both pally and necro?

Necro is 2, pally is 2, DK is 3. ~Ash

thanks, that makes sense now. im suddenly excited for DK xD

< Message edited by Vestrova -- 8/2/2014 15:11:48 >
DF AQW  Post #: 105
8/2/2014 15:17:08   
The ErosionSeeker
*insert cheesy pun here*


 Are the new changes live yet?

Because I'm skill getting the ver2 MSW skills from right after yesterday's release...


EDIT: Ah. Cache clear solved that.

< Message edited by The ErosionSeeker -- 8/2/2014 15:25:58 >
DF AQW  Post #: 106
8/2/2014 15:19:14   
Vestrova
Member

@the erosions seeker try clearing your cache
DF AQW  Post #: 107
8/2/2014 15:52:52   
rytis155
Member

I just used SoulSync buff on MSW (didn't use the nuke part of it) but for some reason it didn't carry over to the next fight. Is that buff carried from fight to fight only on SW at the moment?

< Message edited by rytis155 -- 8/2/2014 15:53:10 >
Post #: 108
8/2/2014 16:02:21   
Sflamin
Member

I like the new skill set. In exchange for some offenses, MSW gets some new defenses that make it less of a glass cannon than it used to be. I see some people complaint about Multi dealing less dmg than it was before. So would it be possible if Remorse does something like 155% dmg to 3 enemies, 205% dmg to 2 enemies, and 255% dmg to single enemies? That way everyone can be happy and at the same time not too OP. The MP costs are still too high for my taste though. If you don't put some points into WIS you're going to have troubles in long battles.

@Ash Necro tier actually confuses me. Unlike any tier 2, It has the power to blow through every single hard mode/extreme boss with little to no trouble. It's a feat that not even some tier 3 classes can accomplish including new MSW.

< Message edited by Sflamin -- 8/2/2014 16:06:28 >
DF  Post #: 109
8/2/2014 16:25:00   
Ash
Member
quote:

I just used SoulSync buff on MSW (didn't use the nuke part of it) but for some reason it didn't carry over to the next fight. Is that buff carried from fight to fight only on SW at the moment?

I didn't mess with the buff setup on that skill beyond changing the 30 to a 35 so it should still be if SW did? It's applying the buff in battle and battle effects reset when the battle ends so it might be getting caught by that. *shrugs* I tried my best to just plain ignore that skill since I wanted to adjust the CD on it.


Sflamin
If you want the MP cost to go up on Remorse and Banish then sure. Since if remorse did 255% damage on one enemy, which is 3% more than Reckoning, it would need somewhere around 40 MP and an 18 CD. The lower you want the CD to go the higher the MP cost will go up. So for it to be able to do that much against a single enemy with its current cooldown it would need somewhere in the range of 90-96 MP. Possibly more since I'm not doing any math at the moment and just ball parking all those numbers off the top of my head compared to what it should cost for things like that without any other mitigating factors. Multi skills are meant to be low cooldown decent damage so when you start altering the effects beyond what they are intended for both the cost of the skill and the cooldown goes up.

Plus you just have to factor in the fact that you're doing the total damage of a highish burst skill when the class already was built with only one in mind, so that adds to the MP cost as more of the power amount is given to Synch so it can stay decently low cost/cd. Similar to how Necro's two summon skills are low cooldown/cost, but give sustained damage which is how it was planned.

Necro is like that mainly due to the fact that it's got an absorb shield, a hefty heal, control skills, and the ability to seed damage and predict when to use it with Final. It's made for dealing with bosses and that's what it excels at. Mid level mooks are meh and take a bit to take down since you aren't really ramping up any of its effects to fight them.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 110
8/2/2014 17:04:58   
The ErosionSeeker
*insert cheesy pun here*


 Would it be accurate to compare MSW with Ascendant?

Both have a nuke that takes a few turns to build power (mandatory for MSW, but increased gains if you use all of the boosts before doing Lightning Storm)
Both have no native heal
Both have MP regen
1 burst final
Strong multis

If the comparison works there, shouldn't MSW have power level a bit higher than it?


If my numbers are correct, MSW in 4 turns:
Turn 1: SoulSynch (adds 35% boost to all attacks except second hit of Synch)
Turn 2: Soul Crush (160% dmg average, with -20 all resist to enemy)
Turn 3: Overkill (252% damage)
Turn 4: SoulSynch (465% damage)

Now to put this into numbers, assuming a weapon with 100 base 100 random and and no attacks fail, but 0% crit rate unless guaranteed...
Turn 1: SoulSynch (0 damage)
Turn 2: Soul Crush (160 * 1.35 * 1.2 = 259.2 damage)
Turn 3: Overkill (252 * 1.35 * 1.2 = 408.24 damage)
Turn 4: SoulSynch (465 * 1.35 * 1.2 = 558 damage)
For a total of 1225.44% damage over 4 turns, or an average of 306.36% each turn.

For Ascendant in 4 turns...
Turn 1: Power Book Boost (adds 30% boost to all attacks + 130% attack)
Turn 2: Ice Shards (130% damage, increases damage of Lightning Storm)
Turn 3: Lightning Storm (237.5% damage)
Turn 4: Final (265% damage)

Now to put this into numbers, assuming a weapon with 100 base 100 random and no attacks fail, but 0% crit rate unless guaranteed. Adding in Ascendant Passive in orange.
Turn 1: Power Book Boost (130 * 1.3 * 1.05 = 177.45)
Turn 2: Ice Shards (130 * 1.3 * 1.10 = 185.9)
Turn 3: Lightning Storm (237.5 * 1.3 * 1.15 = 355.0625)
Turn 4: Final (225 * 1.3 * 4 turns of boost (+40%) * 2 (always crits) = 409.5 -> 819)
For a total of 1534.4125% damage over 4 turns, or an average of 383.603125% each turn.

Of course, this is with the extremely biased "no-crit unless forced crit" clause, so assuming a 50% crit rate off of equipment, it becomes more like...

MSW: 1838.16% damage over 4 turns, or an average of 459.54% each turn.
Ascendant: 1896.61875% damage over 4 turns, or an average of 474.1546875% each turn.

So basically I pulled some numbers out of the air, and it says that MSW is both less powerful than Ascendant in the short run (Soul Crush + Overkill is less than Shards + Storm), the midrun (the math I just did poorly), and in the long run, since Ascendant's damage loop can constantly push out the ~475%.

I'm assuming that this follows suit for both Cryptic and Riftwalker.


The problem here is that tweaking any of the MSW skills makes the individual skill too powerful, whereas Ascendant's combo chains can be justifiably high damage due to requiring multiple links and higher risk of failure.

How about...
-Increased damage on Soul Pierce / some other incentive. +75 bth is great, but you miss very few enemies as it is, and the ones that do put up shields can't be broken by 50 + 75 bth anyways
-similar hard roof limit with Valor Impact. +50 crit where most high-level classes already have 60-70 crit loses some purpose. Actual increase in damage (from 240% to say, 270%) is objectively better than coinflip low damage / high damage increases like additional crit%
-Meditation also gives +crit (like the old Concentrate), or +boost (20%?) for narratively focusing energy

< Message edited by The ErosionSeeker -- 8/2/2014 17:06:16 >
DF AQW  Post #: 111
8/2/2014 17:11:32   
  Hopeful Guy

Hope Upbringer! (DragonFable)


 Sflamin: In response to the point about Necro, as I understand it (and I could be wrong), the tier system is somewhat like this, with a decrease in width of tier corresponding to a decrease in number of classes in the said tier. The classes fit along the spectrum illustrated at the bottom within their tiers, and also follow the power level increase, not just from tier to tier but within their respective tiers. For example, DeathKnight (after it is brought in line) would probably be somewhere at the bottom middle-left of T3, which would translate into it being 'a class which is on the weaker side of Tier 3 and leans towards being more offensive than defensive. By contrast, Kathool Adept would be top far-left, or 'one of the stronger T3 classes and is extremely offensively-minded', enTropy would be top middle-right (although it has ridiculously good defence, it can hit very hard with Womb- Being- Touch) and Pyro top far-right (can survive anything, no burst damage, relies on DoTs).
Necro slots in at the top right of T2, so it is a powerful class that is more defensively oriented. That makes it better than, say, Kathool Adept, at fighting anything with 20k+ HP, because KAA runs out of MP far too quickly and hasn't got much of a defence. SW is not quite at the top, but near there, and far-left, and MSW is bottom-left of T3, so can deal more burst damage than DL or Pyro (middle of T3, far-right, and top-right corner respectively) but in terms of overall play is still worse than both. Is this correct, Ash?

EDIT: TES: Ascendant is meant to be more powerful in general than MSW, right? So if they both do 'glass cannon' Ascendant has to do it better than MSW. (Also, you missed the fact that against our hypothetical enemy with 0 resistances and 0 defences, it is best to use a fire weapon for Ascendant, and the 40% is added, not multiplied, on Final. Factoring them in, Ascendant actually does 1.5(1.3((130*1.05)+(1.1*130)+1.25((237.5*1.15)+(265*2/1.5)))= 2072%, a bit more than in your calculations.

< Message edited by Hopeful Guy -- 8/2/2014 18:00:57 >
DF  Post #: 112
8/2/2014 17:22:56   
WHITE DRAGON MAGE
Member

Ash: Don't worry Ash I get what you mean, if anything having an op skill can keep you from exploring the whole classes potential because you will only use that one move. Having op moves are fun and all, and a lot of the time they remove the need for clever moves but it can make you soft and work against your skill and thinking strategy as a player, so if you ever came up against an opponent where you op skills aren't enough and where you would have to strategise to have any hope of winning then what would you do. I've said this before players should wait to get op stuff and classes like the doom knight armour so that they can grow as a player who can beat tricky and powerful opponents without having things like a doom knight armour as a crutch. So when you do get the doom knight armour you will be that much a greater player, taking the great power of the doom knight and the versatility and strategy you get from experience without it to become the best player you can be.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 113
8/2/2014 17:32:40   
Ash
Member


 Torn from air numbers make me sad but lets go with it.

First off why are you using Burst (that's the name not crush btw) when there are bunches of better attacks you could be using for effects other than -20 All which in the long run isn't the best choice.

Vacuum is 1.80 instead of a random chance while also giving you 2 turns off of taking damage in a best case scenario that everything lines up. That's ~equal to 2 turns of a 100% heal of the damage the monster would have done to you, while also lowering damage which is, again, ~equal to healing .3 of monster damage per turn.

Seal is 1.80 damage while also allowing for ~.4 of a monster's damage as healing while ALSO -.25 accuracy which is ~equal to .06 healing due to assumed miss chances.

Banish is 2.0 damage while giving you ~equal to 200% heal thanks to the two turns of -100 bonus.

Repentance is 1.65 damage while also giving you 2.0 damage over 4 turns or .5 additional damage per turn that can't miss, which is higher than the .2 you would be getting with the -All. This unmissable damage is ALSO affected by the resistances of the enemy so a -40 fire enemy, while you're using a fire weapon for example, would take more damage from the DoT thus increasing the benefit of this skill over any others for a 4 turn model.

Repentance is the better attack to use in a comparison for 4 turns if you're looking for the best possible you can get, followed by Banish for the 2.0 damage and 2 turn miss chance which is worth more then pure damage when compared. You're both losing out on damage using the setup you did and also losing out on missed damage taken which is better in the long run by far on bosses where this would come into play than -20 All.

-20 All looks good on paper but you're losing out on the other effects that have a larger benefit to get that. That is best saved for a boss fight where Ascendent would be going up and down as it plays the boost gain/lose game whereas MSW will remain as a mostly static .35 increase if you don't use synch.

You're also comparing Red Delicious with Granny Smith's. As you stated, Ascendent is more risk/reward then MSW therefore it has more of a damage range and more to gain. You get less of a risk with MSW and lesser chances of missing so you get a slightly less damage amount.



That being said I can do a couple of things.

- Increase Pierce to be Auto Hit regardless (+250 Bonus) This would increase the MP cost some, but not as much as a pure damage increase would. I would also probably have to up the CD from 1 to 2 turns.

- Valor impact actually is +=50 in the coding which means it's taking your crit amount into consideration already. It has a base amount of +50 so if you use no gear you're actually getting a 50/50 shot at a crit each turn. The more crit you have the better your chance that all 3 will crit. That one can't really fiddle much because of that.

- Heal skills for the most part should be singular and only heal. The only exceptions are things like combining the heal with a purge effect (spoilers!), or a small insta heal and a HoT effect. You can do a couple other things like combine with damage but MP healing is usually restricted to just MP healing because that's giving it an effect for free on top of getting the MP back. If it was an HP heal I'd be all for adding something but a "no cost" skill for MP doesn't leave much room for anything else.

< Message edited by Ash -- 8/2/2014 17:39:37 >
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 114
8/2/2014 17:46:54   
The ErosionSeeker
*insert cheesy pun here*
quote:

- Increase Pierce to be Auto Hit regardless (+250 Bonus) This would increase the MP cost some, but not as much as a pure damage increase would. I would also probably have to up the CD from 1 to 2 turns.


That would probably be for the best.
Pierce doesn't have much of an application as an attack other than to unlock Valor (given how it does less and hurts less than at least 4 other skills at any given time), so making it autohit also means virtual 100% rate of unlocking Valor, which is worth it considering what it does.
Changing the cooldown from 1 to 2 doesn't change very much, because only very rarely would you be using Pierce while Valor is still on cooldown anyways.


I chose Soul Burst (finally got it right this time) because I assumed that 0.2 would be more impactful over time, since the other skills would be dealing more damage than if it was a straight +20% boost due to boost and resist being calculated differently than 2 boost effects.
That being said, I didn't look at the actual numbers that 0.2 bonus damage granted, but now it appears like too small an amount to justify using over something else.
Attempting theorycrafting with the better 4-turn skillset...

If my numbers are correct, MSW in 4 turns:
Turn 1: SoulSynch (adds 35% boost to all attacks except second hit of Synch)
Turn 2: Repentance (165% + 50% DOT)
Turn 3: Overkill (252% damage)
Turn 4: SoulSynch (465% damage)

Now to put this into numbers, assuming a weapon with 100 base 100 random and and no attacks fail, but 0% crit rate unless guaranteed...
Turn 1: SoulSynch (0 damage)
Turn 2: Repentance (165 * 1.35 + 50 = 272.75)
Turn 3: Overkill (252 * 1.35 + 50 = 390.2)
Turn 4: SoulSynch (465 + 50 = 515)
For a total of 1177.95% damage over 4 turns, or an average of 294.4875% each turn.
Factoring in 50% crit...
Total of 1691.925% damage over 4 turns, or an average of 422.98125% each turn.

So uh...
Wow.

Complaints redacted, class is stronk.
DF AQW  Post #: 115
8/2/2014 18:07:41   
Solargeo
Member

Master Soulweaver in what I have seen is good, yet with my low mana is a bad choice, I rely on little mana to buff my STR for the warrior based classes. Though why is the good element pink and have a heart when used?
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 116
8/2/2014 18:18:06   
Yuttt
Member

@The ErosionSeeker
You can't repeat that because of the 2 turn cooldown on SoulSynch.

I appreciate the attempt to keep what makes Soulweaver the class that it is (high offense with little de/buffs everywhere). It has good power to spike down individual monsters while retaining high damage on bosses (and the buff to soul seal makes it pretty crazy) as well as a 35% boost half the time (I earlier ignored this for the constant 35% boost, but I dunno which ends up with more power), Repentance now does 365% damage, and the class can give a -70 boost to the opp for 4 straight turns. Impressive. Although I still feel that this class tries to do everything except healing well, it succeeds pretty well in that while retaining the flavor.

Can you tell us the chance to stun per Soul Vacuum hit?
AQ DF  Post #: 117
8/2/2014 18:32:36   
rytis155
Member

Yuttt:
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ash

On MSW Vacuum is insane since it's sitting at a 60% chance for a 2 turn stun PLUS the other effects. I can move the All debuff over to Burst if that will help. Normal SW is a different story and I don't want to mess with it too much.
Post #: 118
8/2/2014 18:34:03   
The ErosionSeeker
*insert cheesy pun here*
quote:

@The ErosionSeeker
You can't repeat that because of the 2 turn cooldown on SoulSynch.


Which is supposedly the intention, since the class is meant to be a glass cannon as opposed to a midrange or endurance class.
DF AQW  Post #: 119
8/2/2014 19:32:59   
afb728
Member

Regarding mana costs: At level 78, I have 55 +39 WIS, and have almost never run out of mana on SW. The current costs are fine.


EDIT: What I mean is that if I, a mage character at a high level with comparatively low stats (BALANCE!) can be fine, so can someone else.
According to the guide, someone at level 40 (the supposed "recommended level to use it) has 40 WIS. I'm assuming that's without stats added by equips.

< Message edited by afb728 -- 8/2/2014 19:36:53 >
DF  Post #: 120
8/2/2014 20:16:37   
ShimmerSoul
Member

I did a little testing. :p Not a huge sample size, but may be worth noting anyway. Or not.
Based on tests vs. Normal Impossible Crawler using optimal gear (no SO or DmK stuff) at level 80 starting with 2140 HP and 2355 MP:
First, three using the nuke attack from Synch at every opportunity:
1. Win, 1732 HP and 1905 MP remaining.
2. Win, 1400 HP and 1905 MP remaining.
3. Win, 1293 HP and 2060 MP remaining.
Now, three using just the (never-ending) boost from Synch and never the nuke:
4. Win, 2140 HP (!) and 2060 MP remaining.
5. Win, 1606 HP and 1945 MP remaining.
6. Win, 2140 HP (!) and 1940 MP remaining.
Overall, pretty good performance in boss fights, considering they're almost the opposite of what it was designed for. Hard mode just plain ate my face, so I'll leave that to some other brave soul if they want to try it.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 121
8/2/2014 21:11:06   
Yuttt
Member

@rytis155 So is that 60% in total, or 60% per (84% total)?
AQ DF  Post #: 122
8/2/2014 23:41:49   
Paladin Warrior
Member

Ash, I love the direction you are taking with classes, placing them on an offensive-defensive spectrum and carefully analyzing what is balanced. Having played the new necro and MSW I'm thrilled for everything in the works now. It seems classes were much less planned in the past, which explains the lack of balance and high amount of relatively useless skills. This revamp campaign promises to totally rejuvenate the game! Sorry you have to catch so much flak for some of this but a lot of people may not fully understand how SW should be played. I, for one, am glad that the class fills a clearly different role from the pure-damage Riftwalker. It has become a strategic offensive class, very high damage but requiring actual though to make it work. I also see a generous amount of defensive options that more than make up for the loss of the OP banishment.

Thank you for being so dedicated to explaining your balance decisions to us and giving insight into how classes are designed! Can't wait for that Paladin.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 123
8/3/2014 0:23:56   
photondude
Member
 

 Hi. I'm new to posting since I often find myself never posting anything anywhere whatsoever, so please bear with me and forgive me for this long post.

I found a bug with SW's and MSW's Soul Piece while using an Escelense Dragon Defender Daggers against an Elemental-type enemy, resulting in 0 (zero) damage against it. I tried going against multiple Elementals in multiple quests and got the same result. As this is the only specific enemy-type weapon I have, I am not sure if this bug occurs when using other weapons like it. The same outcome happens when using SW's Slash and Soul Burst and MSW's Soul Seal and Soul Banish with the mentioned weapon.

I used the Lvl 63 version of Escelense Dragon Defender Daggers with and without other equipment. I also used the Show/Hide button to gain the weapon's special effects in the battles while using a different weapon and it still resulted in the zero damage bug.

---

On another but similar(?) matter, I found that if you use the MSW skills Reckoning and Repentance while equipped with the daggers against Elementals, you get a LARGE increase in damage rather than the stated +50% boost in the weapon's description.

Example
quote:

DEX: 200 +2
Weapon Damage Range: 50 - 50

Without Dagger's Special Effect against Elemental-type Enemy
Normal Attack does 2 hits of 49 damage for a total of 98 damage.
Reckoning does 14 hits of 14 damage for a total of 196 damage.
Repentance does 11 hits of 12 damage for a total of 132 damage.

With Dagger's Special Effect against Elemental-type Enemy [via Show/Hide button]
Normal Attack does 2 hits of 86 damage for a total of 172 damage.
Reckoning does 14 hits of 51 damage for a total of 714 damage.
Repentance does 11 hits of 49 damage for a total of 539 damage.

*Note: This was calculated using the Glittering Chakram (Dagger, Lvl 30) as my test weapon with no other equipment against both the Doom Cola Machine boss and the Junkyard Driller boss from the Dr. Voltabolt's Challenge quest. Both resulting in similar, if not the same, observed outcome as above.


Now I know next to nothing about how damage is actually calculated, but I'm guessing it should look similar to the Normal Attack's calculation and not like Reckoning's or Repentance's. The same thing happens when you use the similar skills on SW. So judging from what I found, I'm guessing the fault lies with the weapon's special effect and you should be able to replicate with similar weapons on both classes.

Thank you for reading my long post and who knows, maybe you'll be seeing me from time to time.
Post #: 124
8/3/2014 3:02:52   
Alpha Centipede
Member

@photondude: The zero damage bug is already known, if I'm not wrong, and it affects only enemy-type weapons. I've tried using the show/hide feature on the Escelense Dragon Defender Staff and the 0 damage bug only affects elementals. Also, the special apparently does 150% damage per hit instead of adding 50% more damage to the original, explaining the huge damage increase. The bug seems to affect other classes too, though I can't name them off the top of my head.

< Message edited by Alpha Centipede -- 8/3/2014 3:04:33 >
DF  Post #: 125
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