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RE: =ED= Official Tactical Mercenary Balance Discussion Thread

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12/13/2014 5:48:40   
ED Divine Darkness
Member

maybe switch FC to a support buff improving with dex? (synergy with stun gren and less chance to miss atom smash) It can also drain enemy's energy as a % of damage dealt. not a big percentage, maybe 20%?
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 101
12/13/2014 8:30:33   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 I love that idea Divine. Let FC be a support buff instead of a strength buff. Strength can not be the main component of this game. Im not sure about draining enemys energy, that might make it OP, but a support buff would be amazing.

It will simultaneously increase critical chance, aux, and the 3 offensive/devensive moves on tlm just as Blood Commander increases strike, gun, prim core, double strike, zerk, etc.

I feel as if making FC increase suppport would be very beneficial to making this class equal.

EDIT: And get rid of the cost of atom smasher: The only energy taking skill that costs. Whatsup with that? So what if it takes a lot, it does not return anything nor does it even do a bit of damage. Get rid of the cost or at least make it do damage by ignoring 20% of targets defense

< Message edited by The berserker killer -- 12/13/2014 8:34:17 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 102
12/13/2014 8:42:07   
Ranloth
Banned


 EMP also costs EP to use, so it's not the only skill. EMP is unblockable, yes, but also costs more EP to use. People want variety between skills, and end up putting the same concept on all skills - no EP cost. On that note, it would end up in TLMs having too many free skills, if that was to happen - three of them, to be specific. All other classes have two at most. Frenzy also acts as a free skill to get small amount of HP and EP back, if you don't want to spend the turn on Battery.
AQ Epic  Post #: 103
12/13/2014 15:33:05   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Sure emp costs but at level one there are 2 things for sure:

1) Draining at least 200 energy

2) You're GONNA drain 200 energy. Wont be blocked. At all, and for an insanely cheap price AND you don't have to sacrifice more stats (sword) for less stats (claws)


----


This skill in particular needs a side effect because, let's be honest, there is no use for a skill that only increases a certain stat in this game. It has to has some sort of side effect. Reflex boost, technician, blood commander, etc. Every last move in a battle is vital.

What I suggest is the same thing as Blood commanders hp regain but towards critical chance. Critical Chance increases by 60% of str gain. Either that or have Field commander increase support instead of Strength

Merged field commander thread. ~WhiteTiger

< Message edited by WhiteTiger -- 12/15/2014 0:03:12 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 104
12/14/2014 13:25:30   
Mother1
Member

Technician has no side effect added to it, and reflex boost's side effect was also removed. In fact the only buff that has a side effect with would be blood commander which gives life steal. Also for say this move was given a side effect the amount of strength given would have to be nerfed down.

Remember when the side effect of reflex boost was removed but they buff the amount of dex given in exchange. Same thing would need to happen here.

Lastly you should post this in the official Tactical Mercenary thread cause it talking about a Tactical Mercenary skill.
Epic  Post #: 105
12/14/2014 13:43:36   
zion
Member

If you invest in more defensive stats, the str buff will make more of a difference. Obviously these moves should be percentage based not flat numbers..... we'll get there eventually.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 106
12/14/2014 15:35:25   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Technician- raises tech and deflect chance.

Reflex boost- raises defense and block chance

Side effects
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 107
12/14/2014 15:37:15   
Ranloth
Banned


 Side effect being a secondary effect included with the skill. Reflex Boost's secondary effect was 15% EP return when taking damage, but it was removed because the two canceled each other out - a skill which raises your Defence and block chance, and secondary effect requires you to take damage.

What you're mentioning is stats' effects, which are independent of the skill.
AQ Epic  Post #: 108
12/14/2014 15:41:04   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Yea, that! Sorry about the miscommunication. Long story short Mercs can afford to use BC because they'll get something for that turn wasted. Hunters can use Reflex boost because it benefits them, same thing with Mages and their tech boost. FieldCommander just stops at strength...and that's it
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 109
12/14/2014 15:48:19   
Mother1
Member

@ the Berseker Killer

That is because guess what? Each of those stats has that added benefit.

Dexetery has block chance
Technology has deflection chance

which is why reflex boost and technician give those stat benefits.

Strength however doesn't which is why field commander doesn't give that benefit.

Strength's benefit is that it has a unlimited source that can be used every turn without cost or cool down AKA strike.

Epic  Post #: 110
12/14/2014 23:12:12   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 No one can get far off of strength alone. Trying to effectively implement field commander into a build is as arbitrary as finding a needle into a haystack. This skill needs a side effect, or I prefer it increases support so that it can increase Critical Chance.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 111
12/23/2014 15:27:50   
ED Divine Darkness
Member

problems with this class
pretty much all of tlm's kit has been geared towards str abuse after the p2a and recent frenzy change- free unblockable strike in the form of poison grenade, free hp and energy regain based off damage dealt with an auto (frenzy), free damage ignore in the form of frenzy, auto enhance in the form of double strike and a drain based off primary damage.

we should push tlm towards build diversity so that they do not have to rely on str abuse.

my ideas:

frenzy
.remove defence ignore.
.make regain based on primary weapon damage, not including str bonuses.
.reduce gain by 6% at all levels.

poison grenade
.reduce initial damage to 50% primary damage, including str bonuses.
.reduce cost by 10 at all ranks. [QoL]

stun grenade
. replace with maul

atom smash
.reduce drain by 10% of primary at all ranks.
.reduce cost by 10 at all ranks.
.if blocked, grants 7% of drain damage (if it was not blocked) as rage %.
eg; primary damage including str bonus is 550, rank 5 smasher(65%); 65% of 550=357.5. 7% of 357.5= 25.025% rage gained.

field commander
.increases support instead of str.
.scaling switched to dex, 1 support/3 bonus dex.
.base values stay the same.
.grants incoming damaging reduction based on support gain. (50% of support gain)
.support requirement, 24 requirement +2 per rank.
as an added perk for sword users, damage reduc increased by an additional 10%.

blood shield
. remove support scaling for shield, put in a scaling for a reduced hp cost; 10 less hp cost per 10 support.

< Message edited by ED Divine Darkness -- 12/23/2014 16:10:53 >
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 112
12/23/2014 15:50:12   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 ^ So you want to reduce everything, and change the one offensive buff skill that increases with support other than frenzy.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 113
12/23/2014 15:59:51   
ED Divine Darkness
Member

not reducing, tweaking- making it weaker but stronger. atom smasher will drain less but be more reliable to use as a drain, if blocked won't ruin the match for the TLM.
and for frenzy, it might be a lesser % but it will be actually reliable to use when factoring in block and enemies defences.

< Message edited by ED Divine Darkness -- 12/23/2014 16:01:06 >
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 114
12/23/2014 16:28:26   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 atom smasher just needs to go, as a whole. if youre gonna reduce drain then you have to at least let it do damage to compensate for not getting ANYTHING back. that's one feature that is highly prejudicial to this class. As for frenzy.. You get 100 hp back every 4 turns, IF youre not blocked and you have a support requirement. I suggest keeping it the same way it is now but lower the cooldown to 3 turns
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 115
12/23/2014 16:41:46   
Zeruphantom
Member

quote:

if youre gonna reduce drain then you have to at least let it do damage to compensate for not getting ANYTHING back


If they gave Static Smash a energy compensation manoeuvre then Battery Backup would have to go. Two energy gaining/removing based skills within one class is insane - Static Smash is fine in my opinion. Not a lot of people use it anyway.

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AQ Epic  Post #: 116
12/27/2014 5:27:08   
dfo99
Member
 

 why frenzy have 10% of defence ignore? frezny is the only mana skill with 0 cost that ignore defence, what if other skills like, parasite and static charge also get this 10%? 10% seems insignificant but is very useful, meteor shower for example gives 10% more dmg and cost 90 of mana, other weird point in frenzy is this 3 effects: lifesteal, manaback and defence ignore, anybody remeber why reflex boost lose the 15% of mana back? i remember..
Post #: 117
12/27/2014 10:06:44   
ED Divine Darkness
Member

why doestnt this class just get smoke back? o_o it doest have 2 passives any more so it would be fine to have smoke on it.

current generally agreed ideas for tlm balance:

TLM should be given smokescreen in the place of field commander
quote:

field commander is just usless, in tht way mercs would have been left whit no aviable dmg (basically a tlm whitout poison granade).

quote:

TLM was designed with 2 passives in mind, that's why they have really bad offensive skills. absolutely no synergy. Stun grenade was put in just to nerf the class. field commander is just a crappy version of blood commander, atom smash is just a crappy bersion of static smash. Notice how they do not have offensive skills that rely on the same stat except strength, that makes them unable to make stat spam builds other than strength

quote:

Get rid of Field Commander. Strength means nothing for TLM, its useless.

quote:

I think they should bring smokescreen back since now there are no more passives

quote:

The main problem with TLMs is that they have no debuff.
quote:

Ive been playing tlm for a long time and i just dont like whats happened to the class.
Passives to actives killed the class as a whole.
What made the class different was its passive armor with that gone its just like the other class but lacks a debuff.

While I realize that that TLM was waaaay OP when they first came out with smokescreen + maul, all I ask is that there be put some kind of debuff. Take out field commander, it's completely useless. Smoke, malfunction, even intimidate would do as a replacement. Considering how terribly the skills synergise with each other currently, there may as well be something that synergises with all builds. A debuff would nicely fill that role.
Sorry if debuff is the wrong word, it looks strange to me as I write this.

It is hard to gain energy as TLM compared to other classes
quote:


Battery Backup is not a particularly interesting skill, and was an easy way to say "how do we give these classes easy energy access" when replacing reorute.

quote:

Just like Xendran said a move that tact mercs can regain energy with, they have battery backup but that is countered way to easily static, emp, static smash, and the other one.
Tlm are the worst class in game atm so I definitely think they need a buff.

make atom smasher cost more, but be unblockable
quote:

Get rid of Atom Smasher, give him either EMP grenade since TLM doesn't have much strength, needs unblockables and it scales with Technology which is more important for a TLM or Adrenaline Rush. Also, EMP would mean 3 grenades ^.^

quote:

EMP grenade, that was one of my suggestions, but then there won't be any club only moves.

quote:

Atom Smasher and Field Commander need to go. They exist because new skills were introduced and EpicDuel didn't want to waste ideas.

EMP is the only old skill I feel is balanced.

quote:

All classes have a skill to take energy. This would make it impossible for tacticals to take opponents' energy, so I do not support. It was kind of selfish too, 'cause I've seen tacticals that took energy with atom smasher and worked not so bad, it's difficult but happens.

Suggestion is to replace atom smasher with EMP or field commander replaced with smoke screen seems fine to me, if it is to get a debuff.

quote:

The skills of this class just...don't work together. TM is perfectly OP, it has four skills that scale off of dex/tech. That class rewards players for putting points into defense stats.
Problem with TLM is that its skills are all over the place. I know it was OP as all heck when it came out, but it got hit too dang hard. There's too many buffs as skills, and not enough attacking ones that can be used together effectively.
-double strike/frenzy scale with strength
-stun grenade with dex
-surgical with tech
-artillery with support
There's nothing that rewards you for putting your points into one stat, because you need to have stats everywhere to use any of the skills together. It's like TLM is made to force you into a focus build. Anything outside of 5 focus/IA gets demolished. The only thing that you can use while using a focus build is mineral armor/blood shield/heal/battery. Forget offense. You can't do enough damage with offensive skills to make it worthwhile.
Compare that with TM, where all you need is a ton of dex/tech to defeat your enemies. TLM needs some skills changed around.

quote:

What I feel should change in balance for tlm is
Atomic smash changed to either be unblockable or improve with dex.
This would make dex build for tlm more usable seeing as it now would have P stun grenade/mineral armor/atomic smash improveing with dex.

quote:

Please make Atom Smasher have no energy cost and no hammer required. Cyber Hunter is the only other class that can't steal energy, but at least they have Malfunction. I don't care about Smoke Screen, just fix Atom Smasher so that they can keep up with the meta. It would be nice if it was unblockable, too.

quote:

If I use Battery, it's just going to get stolen. How can I even use Atom Smasher if all my energy is gone? If I use Battery after my energy is stolen, they are just going to use up their energy, making Atom Smasher useless. It's not fair for it to have a cost, when all the other classes can just steal energy without any penalty. I agree that Atom Smasher is the only reason to use a club. If it were a better skill, it could actually be worth using a club.

quote:


I don't think you understand. If I can't stop my opponent from using a skill with the energy they just stole, then Atom Smasher is pointless.


Posts merged, please don't double post. ~WhiteTiger

< Message edited by WhiteTiger -- 12/28/2014 17:01:59 >
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 118
1/6/2015 23:05:35   
RageSoul
Member

I would like to suggest to change Frenzy's function from a hybrid of HP/EP regain into more of a HP regain ( 2x of the current value of conversion ) but with a Energy drain based on Support .
AQW Epic  Post #: 119
1/7/2015 17:26:24   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 I say return frenzy back to normal and keep it free. The HP gain was absolutely flawless. Frenzy wasn't the problem in the first place, it was the weak stun grenade that was randomly placed with this class. Replace stun grenade with Merc Stun
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 120
1/20/2015 14:43:50   
shadow.bane
Member

@The berserker killer

tlm originally hat the merc stun before they replaced it with stun grenade now ! so this can't be done .
AQW Epic  Post #: 121
1/20/2015 17:01:19   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 it can be done. bh used to take 50% energy with emp, they changed it to 30% and now buffed it back to 50%. they knew it was a bad move, and gving tlms stun grenade was a horrible move. And one more thing: Stun Grenade and Plasma Grenades scaling is absolutely dreadful
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 122
1/20/2015 17:07:53   
Mother1
Member

@ The Berseker Killer

Actually it used to be 50% with tech and was nerfed to 30% with support. Then after that it was but not once but twice before it became 50% drain however it isn't with tech that it works but support so while the number may be the same the stat it works with is not. So it isn't a 100% undo on the changes.

Epic  Post #: 123
1/21/2015 23:26:12   
Cadens Disciple
Member
 

 @ED Divine Darkness

Don't you think Support TLM or at least a decent amount of support will be the only viable TLM build after this? Their offensive buff can allow them to 2HKO almost any target with a turn to set up and gives them a nasty powerful probably costless energy shield to help survive multis. On the flip side, strength takes a very hard hit having to invest separate points for its defense ignore and regen strike and particularly with a 35% damage nerf to TG, making it much less efficient. You might eliminate strength builds from the meta only to create their successor in support TLM.

Support TLM isn't op or even that good atm, but it could easily get there with a support-buff mechanic (to boost their nuking power to ridiculous extents) and a shield that will allow them to survive to rage aux a little more than I'm comfortable endorsing.
Post #: 124
1/23/2015 11:20:26   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 I think Mineral armor should be replaced with Reflex Boost. Mineral Armor seems extremely overpriced and doesn't grant a lot of defense for the price. Sure, its four turns but so is Reflex Boost.

After all, with Reflex Boost TLMS will finally be able to utilize Stun Grenade in an efficient manner.

Edit: I'd rather have a buff to field commander (increases support instead of str) than smokescreen. imo if you really want to give tlms a Nerf Skill then remove stun grenade and tack on intim

< Message edited by The berserker killer -- 1/23/2015 11:23:41 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 125
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