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RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread

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3/12/2015 17:18:01   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Nvm

< Message edited by The berserker killer -- 3/12/2015 21:45:55 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 151
3/13/2015 7:46:57   
Squrwogrona
Member

@King

I have to say that yesterday I had really good streak... Sometimes I tend to forget what is due to RNG and matchmaking a what is bcs of the class.

Most stuff I see is str builds everywhere, maybe I equip kartherax again. So little effort to win via str, I wonder how people can find that enjoyable, but whatever floats their boat I guess.

This doesn't mean that static shouldn't be looked at or multishot replaced and so on. I just saw 36 merc the other day and he put everything to tech and had just bunker static hybrid. I'd like to be able to do some stat spamming with cyber too;) Tried dex spam, suked really hard;)

< Message edited by Squrwogrona -- 3/13/2015 7:47:22 >
Epic  Post #: 152
3/17/2015 18:09:36   
Stonehawk
Member

@Squrwogrona

You can spam tech, you will have high EMP and plasma grenade. But anyways, as it is impossible to get energy back in most cases, you can't use those moves a lot, so your tech will only give you resistance and robot damage... while the battery classes can easily spam a stat to use skills repeatedly.

Even if you try a really high support for a better Static Charge, you will probably recover 280 energy or something. Still: BH can still steal all your energy even with a 18 support build (takes 260 I guess), TLMs can take it all easily at the cost of 90 energy, Mercs can try and steal it if they aren't blocked, and tech mages steals most of it with any focus 5 build (takes 190 energy minimum, if not a focus build with str).

The only class that a Cyber can still use most of the recovered energy is BM, because energy stealing is the slowest.

And talking about RAGE again, there are 3 classes that damages and get rage on the energy controlling skill: TLM (frenzy), BM (parasite), cyber (static charge)

Frenzy gives health, ignores defense and gives energy (drawback: blockable effect. It's fine) . Parasite steals a low % of energy, but lasts some turns. Static charge only gives a flat amount of energy.

SO why not lower cooldown to compensate for being a weak and only cyber's energy recovering skill, but giving a bit less energy?

Now talking about EMP. I agree that it takes a lot of energy. But let's face it: if you can't get energy back, you can't steal opponent's energy. It means facing a TLM / TM in longer battles means a loss for sure (talking about 'caster' builds, specially) . Solution to balance the cooldown lowering of Static Charge is SIMPLY nerfing EMP a little, because cybers will be able to use static followed by EMP more often in some cases.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 153
3/17/2015 19:09:09   
Mother1
Member

@ stonehawk

Takes a lot of energy? With the tech builds I played against it is like an energy nuke. It can easily take 500+ energy from the opponent. In the last battle I had with an EMP cyber hunter he almost disabled my partner's energy (I say almost because I malf him which left her enough to EMP back) But yeah that is very devastating.
Epic  Post #: 154
3/17/2015 23:13:19   
dfo99
Member
 

 the shadow arts seems overpowered (like a super hybrid armor), also aparently the 10% of block efffect looks enabled, the block rate against it is incredible high.
Post #: 155
3/18/2015 12:37:37   
Squrwogrona
Member

@dfo

Yea, I use it frequently, it is fun and I once blocked 150 str 4 times in a row.

@Stonehawk

Playing as good old f5 android, that is till I get bored with it again.
Epic  Post #: 156
3/19/2015 0:14:34   
Altador987
Member

been a while since i posted on this... cy hunter seems to have fnally come around as all of a sudden i'm no longer the only one playing anymore xD and 5 focus tech seems to work extremely well on 1on1 and 2v2... the only thing i'd note as far as balance is the fact that it's the only class that doesnt have a way of regaining hp without actually healing or using a core or robot, and while it may not technically be necessary if we're going with the idea that every has a way to regain and drain mp then i figure why not be the ame for hp seeing it's only one class that's excluded, also a physical attacking skill... unless the blades used are physical ch is also the only class whose skill attacks are purely energy and with the idea of robots and bms and tms that attack hard on energy anyway it gives the ch an automatic disadvantage (there are ways around this of course with an emp and such but thats with a f5 build i highly doubt many other builds work)
AQW Epic  Post #: 157
5/1/2015 7:25:59   
newtena
Member

why does battery backup restores more mana than static charge? thats not cool i lost many games to tactical mercinary and mages.

Merged with Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion thread. ~WhiteTiger

< Message edited by WhiteTiger -- 5/1/2015 15:55:07 >
Post #: 158
5/1/2015 7:34:05   
Ranloth
Banned


 Because it Battery Backup deals no damage, and has 4 turn cooldown - as opposed to Static Charge dealing damage, 3 turn cooldown, and improving with Support too (whereas Battery only scales with level). Not mentioning Assimilation is significantly weaker than EMP Grenade - albeit costs EP to use. When comparing the two skills, make sure to look at the EP-draining skills too, and compare them between classes - because they are also balanced on that basis.
AQ Epic  Post #: 159
5/1/2015 9:11:10   
dfo99
Member
 

 without knowledge about extremely basics things like this no wonder you are losing to tlms, mages or any class, you probably have a 1v1 win rate lower than 55% (anybody with equal or lower than it is a noob even if you play as a f2p in the worst circumstances)
Post #: 160
5/1/2015 15:50:56   
King Bling
Member

static charge deals extremely no damage but least 30
Post #: 161
5/1/2015 17:50:10   
Alphaeus
Member
 

 Srry bout that...hit the wrong button.

Okay so i have a high lvl Ch. I have had an wonderful 1v1 win ration ever since i switched over from BH a few months ago. What happens, people is that you dont know how to work the class if you are doing poorly. I can do long battles with my CH with a great deal of success. (See the post i am about to make regarding my new build style). I do have to say that i dont use any of the traditional damage skills, like the multi or the grenade.
I would make to major changes:
First, make static charge reduce your opponent's energy as well as giving you a guaranteed amount. CH's have to spend a ton of THEIR energy to lower their OPPONENT's energy, which makes no sense. (thus i dont use it).
Secondly, make the multi a physical action, not energy, and base Static Charge off of Dex too, not str, since that only encourages the over-used str builds.

Use an energy primary and bot to take advantage of malf, but use phys sidearm and aux to help balance the deal.

Now, see my newest post for more build specifics
Post #: 162
5/7/2015 6:09:21   
Lordshadow92
Member

CH's the problem i find all so is the Energy Causes and energy Gain's

some times When i play as Ch

in 2 vs 2 battles are difficult yes

what i think is that, when am looking at other classes they have the cool down that gives little advantage on the energy gain

of course energy is all so one of the things i find as a Survival test.

i find many things difficult in this class some of them is the Static charge that gives % damage to energy ... but what i have experienced whit this class it gains the energy yes but the damage is not what i was hoping for ... i mean that it should still do more damage and gain the energy.

well if you don't understand what am i saying then lets say it in this way .

When i use the ability [ static charge] the attack of that is like 30 [in case if blocked] and 100 [ if you Critical hit ] or above.
energy gain i see my self getting about 200 energy or more or less.

it isn't weary use full if other classes has a chance to ''steal your energy'' in combat when you have little to give on the ch Character.

Ch skill tree mostly is focused on Dealing energy Damage when other classes can do both in one skill tree so why not ch as well ? what if you could give Ch a Physical skill ability

1st suggestion i saw many player's saying or suggesting that multi-shot should be changed to Physical Damage this is not so bad idea.

second suggestion Static charge should probably be changed the cool down of that skill ...

the third of my suggestion is to low specific skill's energy cause.
...............................................................................................

they say on http://epicduelwiki.com/w/Cyber_Hunter_(Class)

Cyber Hunters are technologically [[advanced hunters]].

so what we need is '' little advantage''
...........................................................

i don't want to see that huge of changes on the class but i guess other peoples might have better solutions on the Ch class.











Post #: 163
5/14/2015 5:27:14   
Squrwogrona
Member

@Lord

Yea, most of the time cyber feels pretty lackluster. Static charge could use another buff, namely 2 turn cd, bcs right now it is just free energy for ur opponent in later stages. I said this back when it was 4 turn cd, I thought it would be better now with 3 turns, but it is still unusable.

Only build that is viable for ch now is f5 with poison spam and android. Anyone feel free to correct me there, but I just can't see dex build be as viable as bh's. Glass cannon str supp is fine, though cyber should be also able to last for many turns and that is not possible for now.

"Technologically advanced bh" just lol. BH's static grenade is two moves in one and smoke+mob offers more options than malf+nothing.

Energy metagame really keeps this class down. You can't compete with battery+frenzy/assimilate, static grenade and in some cases static smash.

Generally, BH is so much more usable that it is sad. CH just isn't there yet as a viable alternative and really doesn't deserve the tag advanced class.

I'm aware that there are cores like piston shards etc, but I'm comparing base classes not boosted by cores.


< Message edited by Squrwogrona -- 5/14/2015 5:30:50 >
Epic  Post #: 164
5/23/2015 15:05:27   
Altador987
Member

ch is a rather defensive class most of its attack is in its ability to defend with shadow arts, plasma armor, matrix, and emp. it's really all about energy control for them, not just controlling your opponent's but also being able to use multiple attacks without using a lot of mp, same with bh. The hunters aren't meant to end it quickly they were meant to wear you down and find holes through defenses. f5 works great for both especially with bots but with mp control multi and stuns are still usable just not as often as some other classes. it's all about knowing what classes are meant for, the idea isn't to always compare each class to the other because then there'll be no uniqueness. Both my ch and bh are doing quite well right now in both 1v1 and 2v2 though admittedly they are more suited for 1v1 (they always were tho even when it was just 3 classes bh was reigned supreme in 1v1). You don't need to compete with battery or assimilate as long as you can control the flow of battle and predict the opponents, bh and ch are the most tactical of the classes due to their lack of hard hitting skills
AQW Epic  Post #: 165
5/31/2015 19:59:38   
dunfilho
Member
 

 Cyber hunters really need a buff, nowdays nobody uses ch, dont mimimi, thats real.
Post #: 166
5/31/2015 21:47:09   
Daph Duck
Member

Cyber hunter is an excellent class what a shame that very few people can correctly play it.
AQW Epic  Post #: 167
5/31/2015 23:29:34   
.Lord Ginger.
Member

If only static in Delta was brought back w/ 0% block chance, and massacre+malf were buffed as well as STR(stat itself) It'd be good. Cyber had a good mass build, but nerfs to MASS and STR screwed over CH as an offensive class and 100% static dmg nerf + block was huge for offensive builds
AQW Epic  Post #: 168
6/6/2015 12:24:22   
dunfilho
Member
 

 Any guy can post a good build? cause cyber is really unbalanced
Post #: 169
6/6/2015 13:05:33   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Strength needs to be returned to normal and I really suggest making static charge unblockable again with at least 90% damage.

If str is to be kept the same, then I suggest 100% damage and unblockable

< Message edited by The berserker killer -- 6/6/2015 13:14:45 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 170
6/9/2015 10:05:06   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Slightly Nerf the energy gain from static charge and buff the dmg to either 100% or 110%. Its not unblickable anymore, the damage seriously shouldn't be that low.

Edit: Its practically just like Frenzy

< Message edited by The berserker killer -- 6/9/2015 10:58:13 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 171
6/9/2015 11:42:53   
Uchiha Sarada
Banned
I think frenzy energy gain must be nerfed and buff the HP regain a little bit TBk?
AQW Epic  Post #: 172
6/9/2015 16:12:03   
King Bling
Member

frenzy is like, if you use str and use frenzy vs tank, you deal 100 damage, and if used as tank vs tank then does 30 damage and vica versa.
Post #: 173
6/10/2015 2:24:13   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Frenzy was originally meant to give hp and it should honestly go back to that way. Either that or make FC just like BC (Blood Commander). But that could be discussed in the TLM thread.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 174
8/16/2015 8:03:50   
Stonehawk
Member

1. Massacre + poison + unblockable static charge build with decent gun to force = OP -> make static charge do lower damage
2. Massacre + poison + blockable static charge build = strong -> make static charge blockable, nerf strength, gun no more scales with strength
3. Massacre + poison + weak blockable static charge with a gun that scales with dex = FAIL

Time to make it unblockable again with 100% damage, strength is highly weakened and strength-based skills that were nerfed previously should go back to what it was.

< Message edited by Stonehawk -- 8/22/2015 9:41:54 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 175
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