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Patch Notes 1.6.9.

 
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3/26/2014 21:12:18   
Caspyin
Member
 

quote:

BALANCE CHANGES:
Hatchling Rush
This skill has been generally a bit too strong with a high debuff and full damage. We're bringing these down a bit to make it more manageable.
Damage lowered from 100% to 85% strike damage
Healing reduction lowered from 50% to 40%
Necrosis
In comparison to other defense debuffs, this skill was simply providing too much reduction for little cost.
Defense and Resistance debuff reduced
At level 40, final round reduction lowered from 130 to 102
Azrael's Will
While Azrael's Will provides a very strong effect, the energy cost was causing it to be underused.
Energy cost reduced from 200 to 175


Translation:

The veterans have been complaining far to much about the younger newer players beating their hides a bit to hard and far too often, so we have nerf'd the new stuff and made the old stuff even better.

How at all is this balanced?

Az's completely turns the events in any match with a single unblockable, dmg dealing, turn. That completely and literally forces the victim to do something, that in all likelihood, they absolutely do not want to do.

So now what almost anyone can see is that the older players complained, the developers listened, and the new players are stuck with the short end of the stick.

Oh. Lets not forget Az's will is unobtainable. You either have it or you don't.


-Caspyin

Post edited. You should've gotten a PM. ~Mecha


< Message edited by Mecha Mario -- 3/26/2014 21:15:24 >
Post #: 1
3/26/2014 21:29:55   
edwardvulture
Member

The veterans know better. This game used to take a lot more skill and strategy to win. Build making used to be a highly valuable skill that helps your win %. When something obviously overpowered like hatching come into play, us veterans must complain. And if you put necrosis side by side with other debuffs that affect defenses like malfunction, smoke screen you have to consider it has 0 energy cost and putting that as a factor, it must be knocked down somehow.

But to be fair, they should re-release weapons for purchase if they suddenly make it stronger out of the blue like this.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 2
3/26/2014 21:42:26   
Caspyin
Member
 

Ok. Sure.

You want to make an argument for necrosis/hatchlings being OP? Make it. Lets hear it.

BUT!

How do you justify nerfing both simultaneously WHILE decreasing the energy cost of AZ in the same patch?

Thats not balance.

Thats not anything close to balance.

Thats like saying, "I'm overweight, I need to lose some pounds, so... I'm going to cut off my right leg."

SERIOUSLY?!

-Caspyin
Post #: 3
3/26/2014 22:16:05   
edwardvulture
Member

Put necrosis side-by-side with malf. and smoke and ask yourself if it is really fair that it costs 0 energy.
Look at how many players have black abyss battlegear. And yes... the amount of players having a specific weapon does correlate with whether it is over powered or not. For example, Black abyss battle gear are the most popular weapons at the high level end. You also have to put in the fact that there are no real ways to counter the heal reduction effect except possibly critical heal.
I cannot justify the Az wep's slight buff but it does put less strain on energy.

EDITED...slightly

< Message edited by edwardvulture -- 3/26/2014 23:12:49 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 4
3/26/2014 22:42:06   
Caspyin
Member
 

quote:

You also have to put in the fact that there are no real ways to counter the heal reduction effect except possibly critical heal.


What are the ways to counter Az will? Please tell me. Cause.... it seems to me like I get hit with it then no matter what, I absolutely do a normal attack to that person on my next turn, even though that is absolutely the last thing I want to do... and well... I kinda thought I was playing this game so that I could be the one playing the game. And Az's takes that ability from me. Strange.

quote:

Put Hatchling side-by-side with malf. and smoke and ask yourself if it is really fair that it costs 0 energy.


Uhm last I checked Hatchling cost 140 energy for everyone across the board. If you meant to say Necrosis well thats a robot's ability. Which can only ever fire once per match and resets robot for a 4 turn wait. So really nothing at all OP there. Yet it was also nerf' along with hatchling.

quote:

Look at how many players have black abyss battlegear.


I have looked, it is mostly newer players and some older players that have the gear. With the older players being on the smaller percentile of having the gear. WHICH IS EXACTLY MY POINT.

Lets not forget... some people paid money for an item that used to and did do a certain "thing" and now it longer does that certain "thing" like it did when they bought it so.... there is the age ol where is my refund argument?

I will stand vehemently against this poor excuse of an update, it is clearly and most certainly biased. Nothing close to "balanced" despite it's laughable labeling as "balance changes."

-Caspyin
Post #: 5
3/26/2014 22:55:49   
Dual Thrusters
Member

Hatchling Rush forced everyone to ditch their current build and use high HP builds to counter it. Azreal's Will just made you plan a little more, such as healing ahead of time.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 6
3/26/2014 23:09:03   
  WhiteTiger

Majestic Feline of AQ3D & ED


quote:

You want to make an argument for necrosis/hatchlings being OP? Make it. Lets hear it.


Hatchling Rush's effect left you unable to satisfactorily heal for too long, so its effect was reduced to 40%. This was especially prevalent in 2vs2 battles, where you were able to defeat (or severely damage) one of your opponents because even if they used all their healing skills, it wouldn't be enough to allow them to survive past the skill's duration. This lead to players being defeated before they were able to even properly attack.

When compared to a similar skill, such as Armor Annihilator, Necrosis at its previous state was significantly better. At level 40, your maximum armor defense and resistance is 120, spread throughout both, whereas necrosis previously reduced both defense and resistance by 43, then 86, then 130.

On the first turn, Armor Annihilator could have been better, if you are assuming your opponent's armor is spread evenly (60/60) in defense and resistance. On the second turn, Necrosis would likely be better than Armor Annihilator, except in the cases where your opponent's armor was spread with 90/100/110/120 in either defense or resistance (the other one would not be reduced as much though, unlike Necrosis, which reduces both defense and resistance equally). On the final turn, Necrosis would be better than Armor Annihilator as it reduces 130 in both defense and resistance, whereas Armor Annihilator is only able to reduce either defense or resistance.

Armor Annihilator is able to disable your opponent's armor core for the duration of the effect, while Necrosis is unable to, but because it is also possible for Armor Annihilator to reduce 120 defense, whereas your main attacks are all energy (since it all depends on how your opponent has set their armor). Since Necrosis reduces both defense and resistance, both players in 2vs2 are able to take advantage of the effect equally (regardless of whether their main attacks are energy or physical), but for Armor Annihilator it is possible that only one player, or neither players, are able to take advantage of the effect (depending how much of defense/resistance Armor Annihilator reduces) and will only be able to take advantage of the effect equally if the target's armor is split 60/60 (in which case Necrosis would still be more effective on the second and third turns).

quote:

How do you justify nerfing both simultaneously WHILE decreasing the energy cost of AZ in the same patch?

It is purely by chance that these changes ended up being performed at the same time, one did not cause the other. This change was looked at individually and it was determined that the previous energy cost of 200 for Azrael's Will is significantly higher than any other skill core and even though its effect is powerful, it is not enough to justify such a high energy cost. The high energy cost was a major barrier for many builds and the new cost of 175 is still high compared to other skill cores, but will allow more for more builds to be able to use this core.
AQW Epic  Post #: 7
3/30/2014 15:24:52   
veneeria
Member

the only problem i have with Hatchling Rush, is the fact that it is not wide spread to everyone.
It is the only skill capable of stopping health regeneration abilities, such as blood mark.

The other problem would be the lack of counter measures against hatchling rush. Once you've got it, there is no way to actuality stop it from happening.

My advise to hatchling rush would be:

• make it possible to be "partly cured" with assault bot's cleanse. *

• make it also affect the effectiveness of poison on the user. This is, if the poisoned player has got the hatchling rush on them, they take less damage from poison too.

Field medic can also "partly cure" most of hatchling rushes affect, like Cleanse. *


*By partly curing, i mean, that hatchling rush is still affecting the player, but it is not as affective as before/ dangerous as before.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 8
3/30/2014 15:28:02   
Ranloth
Banned


quote:

Field medic can also "partly cure" most of hatchling rushes affect, like Cleanse.

Or, instead, you could make it work for ONE Heal. If you use Field Medic on yourself (or your ally does it), then the Hatchling Rush effect is removed. Only for Heal, not Generator + any other sources of heal.
AQ Epic  Post #: 9
3/30/2014 15:49:04   
veneeria
Member

@trans: I thought about that actuality. But then, since hatchling rush can only be used once... It would be too much if you could just heal and remove it. (like you'd do with venom strike or any other poison.)
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 10
3/30/2014 15:56:21   
Ranloth
Banned


Hm. What if we alter the concept a little? Chance to remove Hatchling Rush: =(Field Medic Level * 10)% chance
So, if you use Lvl 5 Field Medic, you have 50% chance to remove Hatchling Rush completely off you. With Lvl 10 Field Medic, you'll always remove it but... it's really uncommon for anyone to max it out. XD

You could say it's adding a luck effect to a skill, but it does virtually no harm to balance, nor promotes luck. It's the good luck and only applies to one skill/core.
AQ Epic  Post #: 11
3/30/2014 15:59:10   
veneeria
Member

@trans
That.. that i agree off.

It gives an actual incentive to have field medic up to high levels and can be countered.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 12
3/30/2014 16:01:12   
Ranloth
Banned


Besides, your Heal is still crippled whilst using it. So you're risking lesser Heal for a chance of removal - and sometimes, it's better to attack instead of Healing (whilst under the effect). ^.^
AQ Epic  Post #: 13
3/30/2014 16:35:23   
kosmo
Member
 

Also hetchilling rush now is affected by bioborg special, but as it s not mentioned in patch notes, this change is a "bug", that means the change can be fixed if, when and how they want.

< Message edited by kosmo -- 3/30/2014 16:38:51 >
Epic  Post #: 14
4/6/2014 13:27:40   
EpicIsEpic
Member

@kosmo
Can u please explain cuz i was unable to reproduce :(
Post #: 15
4/6/2014 14:12:42   
kosmo
Member
 

u use bio borg and when ur opponent uses HR he looses hp; this core was working like meteors, and it wasn t affected by bio borg.
Epic  Post #: 16
4/6/2014 14:14:32   
Ranloth
Banned


Basically, what kosmo is saying, Hatchling Rush is treated as a melee attack (just like Strike, Berzerker, Bludgeon, etc. are), which it technically shouldn't - because you're not attacking with your weapon directly.
AQ Epic  Post #: 17
4/6/2014 14:15:47   
kosmo
Member
 

exactly.
i aswell doubt this is a bug, since before the last balance update bio borg wasn t affecting HR.

< Message edited by kosmo -- 4/6/2014 14:20:27 >
Epic  Post #: 18
4/6/2014 22:46:56   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


Okay, have you even played recently, Caspyin?

Azrael's will was almost useless before the patch, and it still kind of is now. I maybe use it 2-3% of my matches because it's not worth the energy cost considering it deals reduced damage. Reduced damage means less rage. It's not like before where people have dex builds then mindlessly use it hoping for a block if they're in trouble.

Necrosis did not seem very good in 1v1. It was a higher-than-average bot special at best, but when used in 2v2 it pretty much screwed the person over. You can also apply mark of blood on someone who's been hit by necrosis and then your entire team will get huge amounts of lifesteal while the person hit by necrosis will pretty much just have to waste all his energy desperately trying to survive. Stack necrosis with hatchling rush and the person is almost guaranteed to die within the next 4 turns. Add mark of blood into the mix and you have the most absurd synergy in the world. I understand that since they're promos they're hard to obtain, but just because not many people have it doesn't mean it shouldn't get nerfed.

< Message edited by Exploding Penguin -- 4/6/2014 22:47:05 >
Epic  Post #: 19
4/7/2014 13:58:43   
kosmo
Member
 

Azrael will is a great moove, it used to be extremly overpowered and people wrongly felt it got overnerfed, they buffed it just because anyone used it.Necrosis was op, since it provides unblockable and incounterable dmg (if not with hibryd) to strenght builds.Hetchilling rush was seriusly overpowered till lvl 40, but after rank 10 it becomes kinda odd if you re doing 1v1, they nerfed it to balance 2v2, juggs and lower lvl 1v1.This would ve been a useful update for higher lvl players too, but until they dont nerf to ground ranks on primary nothing really matters.
Epic  Post #: 20
4/7/2014 21:46:14   
Mother1
Member

@ Kosmo

Armored roots is also a counter to not only Necrosis but also Azreal's will warrant it doesn't last as long as hybrid armor, but none the less it is still a counter to both of theses.
Epic  Post #: 21
4/8/2014 3:08:24   
kosmo
Member
 

No, it s not.It would be like double shielding, not that useful.Boiborg special is to counter massive and specific melee dmg, like hawck special povides.Using bioborg on necrosis or against azrael torment is kinda stupid.

< Message edited by kosmo -- 4/8/2014 3:09:11 >
Epic  Post #: 22
1/16/2015 14:34:30   
The berserker killer
Member

 

why not just make heal increase with support
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 23
1/16/2015 14:48:12   
  WhiteTiger

Majestic Feline of AQ3D & ED


Please don't bump dead topics that haven't been posted in for more than 14 days, locked.

Thanks,
WhiteTiger
ArchKnight ED
AQW Epic  Post #: 24
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